shut down from androgel?

[maxwkw]

Hi all, first of all here are my stats

age 25
height 5'4
weight 153
bf ~13-14% ("fuzzy abs")
seriously training ~1 year

pre TRT blood work
total T 210 ng/dl
free T 3.1
(everything else that was tested showed in range)

I have been diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism and prescribed 5g of androgel 1% daily. I have a few questions.

Will 5g of androgel shut my natural test production down completely? If so how long will that take?

If I were to at some point in the future run a cycle of test at 500mg/week, would I need a pct?

(I have some follow up blood work in about 3 weeks, and I'm hoping to get switched over to an injectable form of test. I hate this gel.)

Thanks all for providing information.

[sirupate]

I asked my endo about that after he put me on 5gms. daily and he seemed to think that it was a small dose and should not be shutting me down. I didn't ask him when he upped my dosage to 10gms. daily, or about length of time. So really, I don't know the answer to your question, but gave you what my doctor told me.

[steroid.com 1]

I searched for an answer to this question for soem time and not just focused on gel though. How much exogenous T does a man need to take before HPTA shut down? Couldn't find a clinical answer; that being said, what I did find opinions that it didn't take much at all. Makes sense if you think about it.

If anyone can find more on this question that would be great!

[sirupate]

The context for me was that initially on 5gms. daily, I felt like Superman. That lasted several months, then seemed to wear off. Based upon the stuff I was reading here, it seemed logical to me that maybe my HPTA was beginning to shut down. So at the next follow-up visit with my endo, I asked him. He really dismissed the idea based upon a dose of only 5gms. In fact, he pursued other health reasons that might be contributing to how I was feeling. After a few tests and finding no other health reasons, he upped my dose of gel to 10gms. per day. Again I felt great for a few months, then sort of ho-hum again. Not sure what to make of that and I later got him to start me on injections. Anyway, that is the context for my answer.

[steroid.com 1]

HPTA shut down brings a host of sides with it and is probably the only way to tell. One big side is testicle atrophy, if you're balls are sore/hurt, getting smaller and your sack is puling up tight this would be a good sign. Also, the testes will stop making Pregnenolone which in and of itself has negative sides. You need Pregnenolone for proper mental functioning PLUS it's the precursor to all other hormones. In HPTA shut down, and without a hCG protocol, some men complain of feeling bad overall.

If you have any of these sides you may well be in HPTA shut down and may want to consider adding hCG to your TRT program.

[maxwkw]

HPTA shut down brings a host of sides with it and is probably the only way to tell. One big side is testicle atrophy, if you're balls are sore/hurt, getting smaller and your sack is puling up tight this would be a good sign. Also, the testes will stop making Pregnenolone which in and of itself has negative sides. You need Pregnenolone for proper mental functioning PLUS it's the precursor to all other hormones. In HPTA shut down, and without a hCG protocol, some men complain of feeling bad overall.

If you have any of these sides you may well be in HPTA shut down and may want to consider adding hCG to your TRT program.

Thanks, this is helpful

[zaggahamma]

good advice above..

may i ask how long you have had symptoms of low T and if you've ever run a cycle before and or any other ideas of how you got hypo?

your pct question....if youre hypo what would your pct accomplish...being diagnosed PROPERLY with hypogonadism means that you dont make enough T on your own...pct is to restore levels of those who do

[vtach12]

My doctor said a sure sign of shut down is testicular shrinkage, and the scotum pulling them closer. He said the rate at which this varies by person and dosage. However, that being said, we were talking about injectable. I would guess that the gel would be the same as they both increase free T, which signals shut down. But that is just my assumption.

[steroid.com 1]

My doctor said a sure sign of shut down is testicular shrinkage, and the scotum pulling them closer. He said the rate at which this varies by person and dosage. However, that being said, we were talking about injectable. I would guess that the gel would be the same as they both increase free T, which signals shut down. But that is just my assumption.

I think your assumption is pretty accurate myself. What gets me is that there are Medical Doctors prescribing T replacement (either injection or gel) and don't put men on a hCG protocol till sides show up and men complain. The two go hand-in-hand in my opinion. Using an AI is dependent on E2 levels but for the most part men will need some form of an AI unless they are blessed with a great liver;-)

[maxwkw]

I've been having symptoms of low T for about a year now. I can't really say specifically, but my sex drive has been zero for about a year. I've never run a cycle before.

[zaggahamma]

I've been having symptoms of low T for about a year now. I can't really say specifically, but my sex drive has been zero for about a year. I've never run a cycle before.

sorry to hear bro...hope you get back on track....been on any medications in the last year or two?

[steroid.com 1]

I've been having symptoms of low T for about a year now. I can't really say specifically, but my sex drive has been zero for about a year. I've never run a cycle before.

Get a full blood work (BW) up done including Thyroid and Endo. Hypothyroidism has many of the same symptoms of Lot T and only will a thorough BW begin to tell your story.

[maxwkw]

I've been on 5g of androgel for about 3 weeks. I feel a bit better. It's hard to tell if it's just placebo or if it really is working. I'll know in about a month when I get follow up blood work.

I got thyroid tested when I got my T tested, and it came back normal. Everything was in range.

[steroid.com 1]

I've been on 5g of androgel for about 3 weeks. I feel a bit better. It's hard to tell if it's just placebo or if it really is working. I'll know in about a month when I get follow up blood work.

I got thyroid tested when I got my T tested, and it came back normal. Everything was in range.

Well, be careful about "normal ranges" when it comes to Thyroid testing on labs. Many clinicians now believe the lab ranges are far to liberal and not telling.

TSH levels (in uIL/ml) between 0.27 and 1 are considered normal by many Endos. Scores between 1 and 2 may be a problem. Scores between 2 and 3 probably is a problem and FREE T3 and T4 should be checked.

Scores higher then 3 is a problem.

It's interesting when you do research on Thyroid ranges done by labs but you will see that many Doctors use the the scores above to looking into Hypothyroidism. Many believe that the labs will be adjusting their ranges very soon to reflect what the medical community wants to see...2.5 being the max normal range. Anything above that...well you guessed it.

Keep us posted on your progress Max.

G

[maxwkw]

Well, be careful about "normal ranges" when it comes to Thyroid testing on labs. Many clinicians now believe the lab ranges are far to liberal and not telling.

TSH levels (in uIL/ml) between 0.27 and 1 are considered normal by many Endos. Scores between 1 and 2 may be a problem. Scores between 2 and 3 probably is a problem and FREE T3 and T4 should be checked.

Scores higher then 3 is a problem.

It's interesting when you do research on Thyroid ranges done by labs but you will see that many Doctors use the the scores above to looking into Hypothyroidism. Many believe that the labs will be adjusting their ranges very soon to reflect what the medical community wants to see...2.5 being the max normal range. Anything above that...well you guessed it.

Keep us posted on your progress Max.

G

Will do. I'll post my lab results when I get them. Thanks for all the help guys.

[maxwkw]

So I have to get some bloodwork tomorrow and I've been on a cycle of clen /t3 for the last week and a half or so. I'm thinking I should probably cycle down my t3 if not cut it out altogether. Is there any considerations anybody can think that I should do not to raise any concerns from my doctor?

[maxwkw]

I got a call from my doctor today. She got my labs back and I have elevated white blood cell count, and elevated liver enzymes. She wants me to get more bloodwork in 3 weeks.

I'm starting to think that she really doesn't know what she's doing with my test levels. Last week I went in and she gave me a shot of 100mg test cyp, and told me that when my labs came back she'd let me know how frequently to get injected. When she called today she told me to come in for my next injection around May 9.

She moved me from 5g of androgel /day to 100mg test cyp/month?

This seems absolutely insane. I think I'm going to find myself a new doctor.

[sirupate]

I got a call from my doctor today. She got my labs back and I have elevated white blood cell count, and elevated liver enzymes. She wants me to get more bloodwork in 3 weeks.

I'm starting to think that she really doesn't know what she's doing with my test levels. Last week I went in and she gave me a shot of 100mg test cyp, and told me that when my labs came back she'd let me know how frequently to get injected. When she called today she told me to come in for my next injection around May 9.

She moved me from 5g of androgel /day to 100mg test cyp/month?

This seems absolutely insane. I think I'm going to find myself a new doctor.

Dunno, but doesn't sound right to me. That dose per month is nothing....the gel was giving you more. 100mgs. test. cyp. is a typical weekly dose. You need to figure out why your liver enzymes are elevated. Are you doing oral stuff? You mentioned clen /T3, but I am not familiar with those. If it is oral, it makes a first pass through the liver and can stress it. The gel or injections should not be causing any liver stress at your current levels.

Not sure about the white cell count...usually indicates an infection of some sort. You also don't want to be going into your doctors office for periodic test. injections. You can do them yourself for less money and more convenience. If your doctor won't play ball on that, time for a new doctor.

[maxwkw]

Dunno, but doesn't sound right to me. That dose per month is nothing....the gel was giving you more. 100mgs. test. cyp. is a typical weekly dose. You need to figure out why your liver enzymes are elevated. Are you doing oral stuff? You mentioned clen /T3, but I am not familiar with those. If it is oral, it makes a first pass through the liver and can stress it. The gel or injections should not be causing any liver stress at your current levels.

Not sure about the white cell count...usually indicates an infection of some sort. You also don't want to be going into your doctors office for periodic test. injections. You can do them yourself for less money and more convenience. If your doctor won't play ball on that, time for a new doctor.

clen/t3 are oral, as far as I know clen isn't liver toxic. I have no idea why my wbc would be elevated either, but I am going to try and get myself a little healthier.

I am going to try to find myself a new doctor.

[maxwkw]

I got myself an appointment next week with an endo. Hopefully this will be better than the internist that I've been seeing.