AAS and heart problems

[Tasmaniac]

I am wondering if there are any studies that have proven a link between steroid use (not abuse) and heart disease. From what I have read, if you do things right, you can take AAS and still live a long life.

My first go at using AAS was stupid and could of caused me serious health problems. My second cycle was on sus. I researched everything and it went well. No gyno no nothing and I gained 33lb. At the end of the cycle I got a back injury which has stopped me from going to the gym for a month but I am planning to do one more cycle once I am over the injury so I can get to my goal of 100 lean kg.

My mate took AAS during the 80s and didn't do any pct. He ended up dead at 42. Now that I know a bit more about AAS, I can tell what the steroids did to him. His chest had a lot of extra tissue on it, big nipples and enlarged organs.

I guess the big question is how much can be considered a safe amount before you will suffer damage? I plan to do the next course and then stop. Maybe when I am in my 40s I'd like to try some HGH which is also an AAS but I have heard that there are health benefits to doing it. Any thoughts?

[gearbox]

aas raises ldl and lowers hdl (we all take omega 3's and a lot of them)
it also causes hypertrophy. this can be an issue with long term use imo

[MuscleInk]

aas raises ldl and lowers hdl (we all take omega 3's and a lot of them)
it also causes hypertrophy. this can be an issue with long term use imo

Omegas won't affect LDL, HDL, or total cholesterol - only triglycerides. This is a popular misconception and the bioavailability and purity of omegas in krill oil is reportedly superior than fish oils.

[Lemonada8]

its all about training. your heart is a muscle. U take test to increase your muscle mass, and your heart also increases.
Its easier to get hypertrophy while on AAS, and combined with the lack of enough cardio to help dilate the chamber leads to problems. There is also a genetic component, to those who are more susceptible to have hypertrophy without the increase in chamber size.
Endurance exercise is very smart to do on a cycle, ( and all the time) it helps increase the chamber size to keep stroke volume from decreasing.

Its a quality of life issue, you eat like crap, dont do cardio exercise and do AAS you are going ot have worse sides then if you ate good, and worked out good.

[AZGOLDSMEMBER86]

what is a good protocols for this?

[Tasmaniac]

its all about training. your heart is a muscle. U take test to increase your muscle mass, and your heart also increases.
Its easier to get hypertrophy while on AAS, and combined with the lack of enough cardio to help dilate the chamber leads to problems. There is also a genetic component, to those who are more susceptible to have hypertrophy without the increase in chamber size.
Endurance exercise is very smart to do on a cycle, ( and all the time) it helps increase the chamber size to keep stroke volume from decreasing.

Its a quality of life issue, you eat like crap, dont do cardio exercise and do AAS you are going ot have worse sides then if you ate good, and worked out good.

In my case, say if I added a significant cardio session to my training, I'd probably have to do two cycles to get the gains I want. The reason why I need AAS to put the weight on faster is because of a fast metabolism and back problems which keep me out of the gym occasionally. Would test make your heart get bigger very quickly? I could understand how an AAS like dianabol would be a problem...

[Tasmaniac]

Sorry, double post...

[warmouth]

This topic needs to be expounded on much more thoroughly. I dont know if it has not been brought up very often(when it has, that Ive seen, it seems to be short lived). I dont know if it has been discussed much in the past, but I have read alot of old posts. Maybe it is one of those issues that is "touchy" because we dont know the exact answer too andjust flippantly comment of just ignore totally out of not knowing or fear. I feel like we should, as AAS users, tak about it. I know frommy own research, via google, bing, it is all the same thing. "steroids are horrible for you and you will die early. Steriods cause heart attacks, blah blah." I would really like to delveinto this subject deeper, and hear from esperience. I had a serious situation today I though about posting in the lounge, and I still might if I can. Everything in the media gives scare tactics and such, but from users, its the exact opposite. I am going to post up my situation in the lounge to get some input as well. It has been bugging me all day long. Thanks guys.

[gearbox]

Omegas won't affect LDL, HDL, or total cholesterol - only triglycerides. This is a popular misconception and the bioavailability and purity of omegas in krill oil is reportedly superior than fish oils.

Thanks ink
So do you just take cholesterol pills to help out with your LDL hdl

[austinite]

Thanks ink
So do you just take cholesterol pills to help out with your LDL hdl

I take Crestor @ 5mg Ed.

[Metalject]

The odds of a single cycle even with heavy doses causing any serious concern is extremely remote. However, year in and year out cardiovascular strain could possibly promote things like a heart attack or stroke, but the word "possible" is a very important word. A healthy lifestyle is, however, very important if you're going to supplement.

An interesting note, there's strong evidence that low testosterone levels will increase the risk of heart disease or heart attack.

[warmouth]

The odds of a single cycle even with heavy doses causing any serious concern is extremely remote. However, year in and year out cardiovascular strain could possibly promote things like a heart attack or stroke, but the word "possible" is a very important word. A healthy lifestyle is, however, very important if you're going to supplement.

An interesting note, there's strong evidence that low testosterone levels will increase the risk of heart disease or heart attack.

Ok, but I am not referring to single cycles, and the Op has done more than a single. I am talking 2 cycles a year, maybe a litte 4 week "kicker" while on TRT of like halo, winny, mast, etc just to blast. I am wondering if the 2 cycle a year for say 10 years will have, on average, permanent or irriversable damage to your heart. There is alot of "ex" bodybuilders out there that checked out fairly young. I know they did more AAS than the average joe, but it make me think of what kind of damage there is long term for the hobbyist? Thanks!

[Metalject]

Ok, but I am not referring to single cycles, and the Op has done more than a single. I am talking 2 cycles a year, maybe a litte 4 week "kicker" while on TRT of like halo, winny, mast, etc just to blast. I am wondering if the 2 cycle a year for say 10 years will have, on average, permanent or irriversable damage to your heart. There is alot of "ex" bodybuilders out there that checked out fairly young. I know they did more AAS than the average joe, but it make me think of what kind of damage there is long term for the hobbyist? Thanks!

I understand that. There are a lot of bodybuilders who have died young or at least not at a very old age. However, you have to take into account everything those guys were doing. Like you said, first off the amount of AAS a lot of those guys use is extremely heavy. Secondly and of equal importance is the stress they're putting their body's under through massive diuretic use, extreme diets and a host of other non-steroidal compounds that are sometimes used such as painkillers. A lot of bodybuilders end up addicted to painkillers, especially opiates, due to the massive strain they put on their body and we know those things are far more damaging long term.

Unfortunately, what you're asking for in terms of a long term study done on typical bodybuilding cycles, I don't know of anything out there that's concrete. However, we do know that testosterone has been commercially available since 1937 and we know anabolic steroids have been widely available since the late 1950's and early 1960's. During that time, a lot more men have lived long relatively healthy lives and a lot of them were not doing what anyone here would call a responsible cycle. I don't say that to take away from responsible cycling, of course that's a better thing. Kind of a side note though, it does irritate me a little when people say to someone "your cycle is irresponsible and is what gives AAS users a bad name." No, the mere fact that you're touching AAS gives you a bad name in the public eye regardless of how responsible it is in the view of other steroid users.

[AZGOLDSMEMBER86]

I take Crestor @ 5mg Ed.

What are side effects of crestor ?

[austinite]

What are side effects of crestor ?

none for me. But they list a ton... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000242/

[Honkey_Kong]

I am wondering if there are any studies that have proven a link between steroid use (not abuse) and heart disease. From what I have read, if you do things right, you can take AAS and still live a long life.

My first go at using AAS was stupid and could of caused me serious health problems. My second cycle was on sus. I researched everything and it went well. No gyno no nothing and I gained 33lb. At the end of the cycle I got a back injury which has stopped me from going to the gym for a month but I am planning to do one more cycle once I am over the injury so I can get to my goal of 100 lean kg.

My mate took AAS during the 80s and didn't do any pct. He ended up dead at 42. Now that I know a bit more about AAS, I can tell what the steroids did to him. His chest had a lot of extra tissue on it, big nipples and enlarged organs.

I guess the big question is how much can be considered a safe amount before you will suffer damage? I plan to do the next course and then stop. Maybe when I am in my 40s I'd like to try some HGH which is also an AAS but I have heard that there are health benefits to doing it. Any thoughts?

Could AAS have played a role in his heart attack? It's possible, but I don't think you could honestly say it was the cause in this case. People DO have heart attacks sometimes earlier in life (unfortunately). Just because your buddy had a fatal heart attack and used AAS before, it doesn't mean that AAS necessarily CAUSED the heart attack. I really think we need to have studies done on this comparing natural athletes to similar athletes that use gear and looking at correlations.

[Silverbimma]

Could AAS have played a role in his heart attack? It's possible, but I don't think you could honestly say it was the cause in this case. People DO have heart attacks sometimes earlier in life (unfortunately). Just because your buddy had a fatal heart attack and used AAS before, it doesn't mean that AAS necessarily CAUSED the heart attack. I really think we need to have studies done on this comparing natural athletes to similar athletes that use gear and looking at correlations.

I think you're right, but steroids cannot be ruled out even if the exact cause isn't steroids. Maybe he did something that day to trigger the heart attack, but the condition that was set forth to make it possible to have a heart attack was because of his lifestyle and possibly some genetic factors as well.

Athlete's heart (enlarged heart) is a condition common with people who don't do steroids either. Any time you strain yourself and push yourself further you are causing your heart to grow. Anaerobic exercises (like bodybuilding exercises) will do this. My doctor told me to stay away from exercises where you are pushing or pulling while holding your breath (as you do on heavy sets). When you do these kinds of movements, it is very difficult for your heart to pump blood through the extremities when your whole body is flexed solid.

That said, bodybuilding is not for everyone. Sure, there are guys who have done it and lived to be 70+, but those guys are rare. I researched this subject a lot and found a bunch of no-names that died in their 20's, 30's, and 40's from anabolic steroid use . It seems, from many examples, the magic age was 40. Look at how many wrestlers died at 40. There are tons.

Also, being big and muscular isn't healthy. Duncan is a recent example. For my height, I should be around 195 lbs to be considered in ok weight range. All those proteins we eat, and especially the protein powder, are full of cholesterol. Musclemilk is poison. Creatine is also poison. It puts more water/volume in your body and makes it harder for your heart to work. Not to mention, creatine is terrible for your kidneys.

The truth is, that if we want to maintain a long, healthy life... we will eventually have to give up the bodybuilding lifestyle and trim down. My hope is that everyone doesn't do so much damage in their "invincible mentality" days that it will harm them down the line.

[Sgt. Hartman]

^^I don't know where you're getting your info from the the majority of that is nonsense.

[Silverbimma]

I got this information from an endocrinologist in my family and my own endocrinologist. I have high blood pressure, so I researched a lot and asked a lot of questions.

[Honkey_Kong]

I got this information from an endocrinologist in my family and my own endocrinologist. I have high blood pressure, so I researched a lot and asked a lot of questions.

I think you need to do a lot more research. You could start by asking those endocrinologists to cite sources of studies they read which indicated the stuff you wrote.

And by the way, virtually all of those wrestlers and bodybuilders you were referring to dying young were taking OTHER drugs along with AAS. If somebody who happened to use AAS sniffed an OZ of cocaine and their heart stopped, what would you honestly claim the cause of death was?

As far as your creatine claims go, I found this study within 30 seconds of Googling:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10449011

[MuscleInk]

Thanks ink
So do you just take cholesterol pills to help out with your LDL hdl

No. I should but statins are nasty drugs IMO.

I recently started taking a very low dose beta blocker for hypertension. My bp always elevates on cycle and sits around 167/92 which is too high. Since I'm asymptomatic I used to ignore it (Bonaparte's gonna read that and give me hell) but since hypertension can be one of those "silent killers" in cardiology, I finally decided to take something to manage it. My bp is down to 140/78. Systolic is trending a little high still so I might bump my Bystolic to a full dose (5mg).

I'm having a lipid panel drawn on Friday this week to see where my lipid values are at and then decide if I should add another compound to improve LDL, HDL, and total cholesterol.

Diet and cardio are ideal ways to manage cholesterol but for me it doesn't help as the gear throws it out of wack no matter how I eat or train.

[Honkey_Kong]

No. I should but statins are nasty drugs IMO.

I recently started taking a very low dose beta blocker for hypertension. My bp always elevates on cycle and sits around 167/92 which is too high. Since I'm asymptomatic I used to ignore it (Bonaparte's gonna read that and give me hell) but since hypertension can be one of those "silent killers" in cardiology, I finally decided to take something to manage it. My bp is down to 140/78. Systolic is trending a little high still so I might bump my Bystolic to a full dose (5mg).

I'm having a lipid panel drawn on Friday this week to see where my lipid values are at and then decide if I should add another compound to improve LDL, HDL, and total cholesterol.

Diet and cardio are ideal ways to manage cholesterol but for me it doesn't help as the gear throws it out of wack no matter how I eat or train.

I don't know if your doctor told you, but beta blockers can cause "sexual side-effects." Keep your doctor notified if you experience problems. I take Metoprolol twice a day and it's lowered my BP from the 170+/100+ to under 120/80. I've been a lot more sleepy from it though.

[MuscleInk]

I think you need to do a lot more research. You could start by asking those endocrinologists to cite sources of studies they read which indicated the stuff you wrote.

And by the way, virtually all of those wrestlers and bodybuilders you were referring to dying young were taking OTHER drugs along with AAS. If somebody who happened to use AAS sniffed an OZ of cocaine and their heart stopped, what would you honestly claim the cause of death was?

As far as your creatine claims go, I found this study within 30 seconds of Googling:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10449011

Agreed. There are numerous factors that determine cardiac health. There are several publications on Pubmed that cite relationships between AASs and reduced cardiac output or ventricular thickening/enlargent and even HGH at high doses can be detrimental to the heart. As pointed out earlier, low T is also inversely correlated with heart health as is body fat and lifestyle. Familial history is another important factor that has to be considered as well. Clearly AASs have some impact on cardiac function but just how much and how long one needs to be exposed before cardiac function becomes compromised is not so clear cut and individual differences will come in to play.

My view on the subject is that if your going to spend so much time, money, and energy on improving your appearance and performance, take the time for regular check ups and blood work to ensure optimal health and address emerging problems before they become serious life altering events. It's a lot easy to prevent a major event from happening than it maybe to recover from one.

[MuscleInk]

I don't know if your doctor told you, but beta blockers can cause "sexual side-effects." Keep your doctor notified if you experience problems. I take Metoprolol twice a day and it's lowered my BP from the 170+/100+ to under 120/80. I've been a lot more sleepy from it though.

Ya every drug has its undesirable effects. I'm not a fan of hypertension meds for many reasons, but I'm less of a fan of heart attacks! Lol

[Honkey_Kong]

Agreed. There are numerous factors that determine cardiac health. There are several publications on Pubmed that cite relationships between AASs and reduced cardiac output or ventricular thickening/enlargent and even HGH at high doses can be detrimental to the heart. As pointed out earlier, low T is also inversely correlated with heart health as is body fat and lifestyle. Familial history is another important factor that has to be considered as well. Clearly AASs have some impact on cardiac function but just how much and how long one needs to be exposed before cardiac function becomes compromised is not so clear cut and individual differences will come in to play.

My view on the subject is that if your going to spend so much time, money, and energy on improving your appearance and performance, take the time for regular check ups and blood work to ensure optimal health and address emerging problems before they become serious life altering events. It's a lot easy to prevent a major event from happening than it maybe to recover from one.

Everybody should get regular checkups, whether or not they lift or use AAS. But yeah I'm not disputing that AAS and thicken arteries or anything. Just that there are other factors involved as well. All the grey area really means that the medical research community SHOULD be studying this more.

[Honkey_Kong]

Ya every drug has its undesirable effects. I'm not a fan of hypertension meds for many reasons, but I'm less of a fan of heart attacks! Lol

Well the whole thing is there are a lot of different options in the hypertension med realm. Just from the different $4 per month supply choices at Walmart there is like 50 or 60 different options. There is no need to have to deal with real bad side-effects (unless of course it's the best option).

[Silverbimma]

I don't know if your doctor told you, but beta blockers can cause "sexual side-effects." Keep your doctor notified if you experience problems. I take Metoprolol twice a day and it's lowered my BP from the 170+/100+ to under 120/80. I've been a lot more sleepy from it though.

Yeah I had my experience with beta blockers. I'm on something else now. Benicar. It is a angiotensin II receptor antagonist. Basically, for those who don't know, it loosens your blood vessels to make it easier for blood to flow. My blood pressure is better by some degree... when I'm just laying down it is about 125-130/70-80. Maybe you guys could try that if you don't like the "side effects" of beta blockers.

[Sgt. Hartman]

No. I should but statins are nasty drugs IMO.

Agreed.

I recently started taking a very low dose beta blocker for hypertension. My bp always elevates on cycle and sits around 167/92 which is too high. Since I'm asymptomatic I used to ignore it (Bonaparte's gonna read that and give me hell) but since hypertension can be one of those "silent killers" in cardiology, I finally decided to take something to manage it. My bp is down to 140/78. Systolic is trending a little high still so I might bump my Bystolic to a full dose (5mg).

My BP was approaching that on my last cycle and 10mg cialis ED lowered it considerably. After a while though the other "side effect" of cialis got to be too much so I've got clonidine on hand if BP climbs that high again.

Everything I've read on BP/heart disease/AAS seems to show that the risk for left ventricular hypertrophy is considerably lessened if BP is kept in check. Sure the androgens alone can cause hypertrophy to some degree but add high BP (ie. resistance) and the risk increases dramatically.

[FONZY007]

I don't know if your doctor told you, but beta blockers can cause "sexual side-effects." Keep your doctor notified if you experience problems. I take Metoprolol twice a day and it's lowered my BP from the 170+/100+ to under 120/80. I've been a lot more sleepy from it though.

Why not just some cialis ?

[Honkey_Kong]

Why not just some cialis ?

I don't take BP medication because of AAS. It runs in my family and I was no exception. Granted, I probably could do more to lower my sodium intake and what have you, but it's pretty low for the most part.

Cialis was never suggested by my physician and that is who is treating my BP issues.

[MuscleInk]

Agreed.

My BP was approaching that on my last cycle and 10mg cialis ED lowered it considerably. After a while though the other "side effect" of cialis got to be too much so I've got clonidine on hand if BP climbs that high again.

Everything I've read on BP/heart disease/AAS seems to show that the risk for left ventricular hypertrophy is considerably lessened if BP is kept in check. Sure the androgens alone can cause hypertrophy to some degree but add high BP (ie. resistance) and the risk increases dramatically.

Correct in all accounts!

Low dose cialis is also prescribed prophylactically for BPH in addition to hypertension but it's not ideal for more than 30 days as a treatment for either.

[warmouth]

Thanks guys. That was alot of good reading. I know it wasnt my thread, but I felt the issure should be considered a bit more. I have hypertension as well honkey kong, but AAS has made it a bit more difficult to control. I ordered ciallis to go with my Losartin ED, but it hasnt done too much. It has help, but not drastically. Iam considering talking woth my physician about a beta blocker nextweek. He had me onthem, but my cardiologist took me off.

[Honkey_Kong]

Thanks guys. That was alot of good reading. I know it wasnt my thread, but I felt the issure should be considered a bit more. I have hypertension as well honkey kong, but AAS has made it a bit more difficult to control. I ordered ciallis to go with my Losartin ED, but it hasnt done too much. It has help, but not drastically. Iam considering talking woth my physician about a beta blocker nextweek. He had me onthem, but my cardiologist took me off.

Beta blockers aren't the type of medication younger men should be trying out right off the bat. I started out with an ACE inhibitor and diuretic Lisinipril/Hctz, which actually worked well with me in lowering my BP. It was dehydrating me way too much and I couldn't drink enough water to keep up with it.

[Lemonada8]

^^ thats prolly due to the HCTZ.

Ace inhibitors ( or angiotensin receptor blockers) are the first line for HBP, and help protect the heart from remodeling also. if you have high BP, talk to ur doc about those.

[Honkey_Kong]

^^ thats prolly due to the HCTZ.

Ace inhibitors ( or angiotensin receptor blockers) are the first line for HBP, and help protect the heart from remodeling also. if you have high BP, talk to ur doc about those.

They're the first set of options, but there are a whole buffet of options they can do. It's a matter of systematically finding what's right for the individual.

I'm personally really happy with metoprolol. The only thing I dislike is how walmart won't carry the time-release one for $4 so I take it twice a day.

[Tasmaniac]

Bump

[binsser]

ASS can effect your heart i think mainly to the increased extra strenght and battering you give your body in the gym, i mean a good friend of everyones died here a few years ago and he was whacking mls and mls in him daily and ruptured all the vessals around his heart and died in his sleep so you have to be carefull not wanting next days results is best just do it slowly and gradually and i think a healthy life would be on the cards but not if people out rightingly just jab loads of differant drugs and amounts in the body thats gonna def lower your age group i think, so like said it can be attributed but not the cause depends on the individual and how they use it!

[Tasmaniac]

I'm on a 6 month+ cycle of GHRP-6 and will add sus half way through. Once the sus cycle is done I am going to get my heart checked. Fingers crossed it'll be ok. Even going to the gym can cause heart problems due to the development of athlete's heart.

[gearbox]

I'm on a 6 month+ cycle of GHRP-6 and will add sus half way through. Once the sus cycle is done I am going to get my heart checked. Fingers crossed it'll be ok. Even going to the gym can cause heart problems due to the development of athlete's heart.

I have athletes heart

[Tasmaniac]

I have athletes heart

What has your doctor said about it?
Mine was saying that if I developed it, there are things you can do to make sure you still live a long life. Correct?