Bringing E2 Down

[JohnnyVegas]

I just had blood work and was surprised to find out my E2 is 308 (range 3-70).

I have been using Liquidex at .25mg every day, but apparently that isn't enough.

Any feedback on bringing it down? I have seen a few other threads about this topic lately, but this seems like a dose specific issue and I didn't want to highjack another thread.

[austinite]

Ouch. Sorry to hear that, JV. I'd run that adex at 1 a day for a week, then go .5 ED and stay there.

I have to run adex at .5 daily to maintain.

[warmouth]

That sucks man! Austinite, a gram? Isnt that like 1000 1mg tabs? My E2 was a bit high from my TRT but didnt know how to adjust either.

[austinite]

^ yes, sorry. edited.

[MickeyKnox]

Are you on cycle or continuing HRT? Either way, that sucks for sure.

Just for reference Johnny, Im now running Aromasin @ 25mg/day (Liquid Stane) to curtail my E2 on cycle.

[warmouth]

^ yes, sorry. edited.

Holy crap! You had me worried I was doing it wrong, lol. I thought I was about to grow a set of boobs and lose my manhood!

[warmouth]

Are you on cycle or continuing HRT? Either way, that sucks for sure.

Just for reference Johnny, Im now running Aromasin @ 25mg/day (Liquid Stane) to curtail my E2 on cycle.

So the Stane that Ar-r sels is aromasin? I have had the hardest time finding legit aromasin and didnt know the stane was the same. I thought it was extemestane. I got to get some to help my lipids out. Thanks!

[JohnnyVegas]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I didn't want to jump up to what I thought was a pretty high dose without hearing from you guys first. I will up it per austinite and check out Stane per Mickey.

I am on cycle. Ironically, I don't need an AI when I am on TRT.

Funny thing is, I feel totally normal. Acne is acting up a bit and blood pressure is up a little (which is why I went from .25 eod to .25 ed) but I actually thought this dose was keeping it under control. I was really surprised and thought I would be pretty close to the normal range.

The saying is true: the only way to know is blood work.

[MickeyKnox]

So the Stane that Ar-r sels is aromasin? I have had the hardest time finding legit aromasin and didnt know the stane was the same. I thought it was extemestane. I got to get some to help my lipids out. Thanks!

Yup, same thing bro. Aromasin , Exemastane, Stane.

[MickeyKnox]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I didn't want to jump up to what I thought was a pretty high dose without hearing from you guys first. I will up it per austinite and check out Stane per Mickey.

I am on cycle. Ironically, I don't need an AI when I am on TRT.

Funny thing is, I feel totally normal. Acne is acting up a bit and blood pressure is up a little (which is why I went from .25 eod to .25 ed) but I actually thought this dose was keeping it under control. I was really surprised and thought I would be pretty close to the normal range.

The saying is true: the only way to know is blood work.

Good luck Johnny! Keep us posted.

[JohnnyVegas]

Just took my first higher dose of Liquidex and ordered more. We will see what happens. I will have more blood work done in a week or two to see where I stand.

[OdinsOtherSon]

Good luck JV. Please do keep us posted.

[Lunk1]

Honestly JV...when on Tren I prefer Aromasin over Adex or Ldex...just seems to work better for me.

[JohnnyVegas]

Honestly JV...when on Tren I prefer Aromasin over Adex or Ldex...just seems to work better for me.

I never thought about changing my AI based on Tren use since it doesn't convert to estrogen. Interesting.

[austinite]

Not that there is anything wrong with aromasin . It's a suicide inhibitor that's more powerful than adex. Aromasin takes over a week to get serum levels up where adex is "Same day service".
So you're going to have to be careful with aromasin if you go that route.

I'd stick to dex.

[JohnnyVegas]

Not that there is anything wrong with aromasin . It's a suicide inhibitor that's more powerful than adex. Aromasin takes over a week to get serum levels up where adex is "Same day service".
So you're going to have to be careful with aromasin if you go that route.

I'd stick to dex.

I didn't plan on changing this time. I like to cut my variables to a minimum.

I will do some reading before my next adventure though.

[warmouth]

Not that there is anything wrong with aromasin . It's a suicide inhibitor that's more powerful than adex. Aromasin takes over a week to get serum levels up where adex is "Same day service".
So you're going to have to be careful with aromasin if you go that route.

I'd stick to dex.

Very sorry for bumping this. I am wanting to see if I could get some more detail on this, if thats ok with Johnny. The only reason for me wanting to use Aromasin (liquid stane) is the negative effects it has been shown to have on lipids. My last lipid panel was disgusting and I just wanted to assurance of an AI, without the worry of bad cholesterol. Since you say aromasin is a suicide inhibitor (I understand this), how will you know when enough is enough, not including BW. I know an E2 crash makes you feel horrible, but what is a good way to introduce this AI in order to get the serum levels up and stable without killing your estro?
Again, sorry for the bump. I havent been on in a couple of days, so I wasnt able to read the replies until now.

[JohnnyVegas]

^^^^ You did me a favor...I was just looking for this thread.

Update. Three days on the new high dose. Had to go .75mg the past three days or I would run out before my new bottle comes in since quadrupling my dose dose a number on supply.

Acne is clearing up which is a good sign.

The pain around my right elbow (I have been assuming it is tendinitis from heavy lifting) is worse, but could be completely unrelated.

[warmouth]

Awesome! A win-win. Good to hear about the acne situation. It wouldnt hurt if I upped mine from the sounds of that.

[MickeyKnox]

^^^^ You did me a favor...I was just looking for this thread.

Update. Three days on the new high dose. Had to go .75mg the past three days or I would run out before my new bottle comes in since quadrupling my dose dose a number on supply.

Acne is clearing up which is a good sign.

The pain around my right elbow (I have been assuming it is tendinitis from heavy lifting) is worse, but could be completely unrelated.

Good to hear Johnny. Seems like youre headed in the right direction.

Are you considering the change to Stane?

[MuscleInk]

Damn. Sorry I missed this thread. Johnny, how's the E2 now? Did you get it under control? Two months ago when I was running high doses of SuperT (2.5 grams a week!!!!!!) I left my Adex at .25mg EOD because that always kept my E2 at a sweet spot - about mid range on typical E2 sensitive assay. Unfortunately, at the high dose of superT my E2 ran away. I was mostly asymptomatic. A little more fatigue than usual but everything else was normal. I nearly had a damn heart attack when I drew my labs for a routine check and my E2 sensitive assay came back at 295!!!!!!!!!!

I've been more aggressive with my Adex now but the effect of Adex on lipids has me concerned. I haven't run a lipid panel in awhile but probably will. My lipids are always screwed when I'm on cycle and I bet the Adex is probably contributing to an already bad problem.

So, I'm likely going to run a fasted lipid panel and if everything looks bad, I plan on switching to aromasin until end of December or mid January when I'll run labs again and check where everything is at.

Over the past few weeks I've had some minor kidney issues which could be due to hypercholesterolemia so keeping the lipids in normal ranges is becoming an even greater concern for me.

[songdog]

This is all very interesting this could be the reason some guys feel tired on cycle.Where are our lab rats when we need them?

[warmouth]

Damn. Sorry I missed this thread. Johnny, how's the E2 now? Did you get it under control? Two months ago when I was running high doses of SuperT (2.5 grams a week!!!!!!) I left my Adex at .25mg EOD because that always kept my E2 at a sweet spot - about mid range on typical E2 sensitive assay. Unfortunately, at the high dose of superT my E2 ran away. I was mostly asymptomatic. A little more fatigue than usual but everything else was normal. I nearly had a damn heart attack when I drew my labs for a routine check and my E2 sensitive assay came back at 295!!!!!!!!!!

I've been more aggressive with my Adex now but the effect of Adex on lipids has me concerned. I haven't run a lipid panel in awhile but probably will. My lipids are always screwed when I'm on cycle and I bet the Adex is probably contributing to an already bad problem.

So, I'm likely going to run a fasted lipid panel and if everything looks bad, I plan on switching to aromasin until end of December or mid January when I'll run labs again and check where everything is at.

Over the past few weeks I've had some minor kidney issues which could be due to hypercholesterolemia so keeping the lipids in normal ranges is becoming an even greater concern for me.

Keep this one bumped, as this is exactly what I am concerned with as well.

[JohnnyVegas]

So, I'm likely going to run a fasted lipid panel and if everything looks bad, I plan on switching to aromasin until end of December or mid January when I'll run labs again and check where everything is at.

I plan on doing some research to see if there is a better way to do manage E2 in the future. I am concerned with lipids as well.

This is all very interesting this could be the reason some guys feel tired on cycle.Where are our lab rats when we need them?

I seem to have more energy now.

I know oftentimes there is a placebo effect and the head plays a lot of games. Here is what I feel like after one week on a higher dose:
More energy.
Sleeping better.
Lost a few pounds of water and look tighter.
Acne clearing up.

I will know more when I get E2 checked again later this week.

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

I plan on doing some research to see if there is a better way to do manage E2 in the future. I am concerned with lipids as well.



I seem to have more energy now.

I know oftentimes there is a placebo effect and the head plays a lot of games. Here is what I feel like after one week on a higher dose:
More energy.
Sleeping better.
Lost a few pounds of water and look tighter.
Acne clearing up.

I will know more when I get E2 checked again later this week.

Is this after running the adex at 1mg ED? I ran adex in the past and experienced the same issues.

Ever since I switched over to the stane I have had no issues. There must be a reason it is a bit more pricier .

[JohnnyVegas]

Is this after running the adex at 1mg ED? I ran adex in the past and experienced the same issues.

Ever since I switched over to the stane I have had no issues. There must be a reason it is a bit more pricier .

It is after running L-dex at .75mg for five days and 1mg for two days (I had to conserve while more came in). I will run at 1mg for a few more days and then get blood work done.

I might switch in the future. I have lots of reading to do.

[JohnnyVegas]

UPDATE: I upped my liquidex dose from .25mg/day to .75mg/day for a week while waiting for another bottle. Then I did a week at 1mg/day. Now I am doing .75 a day.

I JUST GOT MY BLOOD WORK BACK AND E2 IS 327, up from 308.

Granted, I have upped my Test dose for fear that it was under dosed, but I thought tripling my AI dose (and quadrupling for a week) would have come close to bottoming me out. Nope.

Funny thing is, when I am doing my 200mg/wk TRT dose I require zero AI.

Now what? Advice would be appreciated. I feel good, but I know this is not healthy.

[Lunk1]

Yeah...but ill pm later when not on my phone!

[JohnnyVegas]

Yeah...but ill pm later when not on my phone!

Thanks. Any input would be appreciated.

I am going back up to 1mg/day. I didn't want to switch to a different drug, but maybe that is what I should do.

I have never had a problem with AR-R , so hopefully this isn't an issue with dosing. I am starting a new bottle today so we will see if that makes a difference.

[JohnnyVegas]

Another update:

Since tripling and then quadrupling my AI dose for weeks didn't lower my E2 I have stopped my Test use a couple of weeks early and started taking Anastrozole from my doctor. Better safe than sorry. I had my BP taken the other day and it spiked.

Time to rethink how I handle my AI, maybe take a stab at Stane. And I will need to have blood work done earlier in my cycle to see if it is rising so I can adjust sooner.

[bigsiv]

Hope everything works out Johnyvegas keep us updated. Good Luck!

[AnabolicFan]

The only thing you would have to be careful of, if you were to switch off of Letro, and continue on with Tren , is progesterone level which can still result in Gyno issues. I had done a great deal of research before starting my most recent Test/Tren Cycle that I am currently on. My understanding is that Tren does not convert to Estrogen because of the alteration making it a NOR-19 steroid , but it can still cause elevated progesterone levels. So my suggestion would always be Letro because if you were to use another AI then you would need either bromocriptine or Cabergolin to suppress progesterone. I had also seen a great deal of information indicated that the sides experienced from either of those (bromo/caber) are extremely harsh. Now I am no authority on this but I have been using AAS for almost 10 yrs, and I also work in healthcare so I have a great understanding for human physiology, and pharmacology. Good luck either way.
Best

[JohnnyVegas]

Since the thread was bumped, here is an update:

I went back to my TRT dose Jan 1.

I ran 1mg a day of pharm Anastrozole from my doc for two weeks and continue to take .25mg/day of Ldex. Also taking .5mg/day of Prami every night because my progesterone was high as well. I will keep up this regimen unless I start to feel like my E2 is tanking.

I get blood work done on the 31st and we will see where I am at. It is blood work for my doctor so hopefully my E2 is not still really high.

AnabolicFan: yeah, Tren can definitely cause a rise in progesterone. I have heard that the progesterone will not rise if E2 is kept in check. I plan on doing some research on that.

So, more info to come when I get blood work back. It has been an interesting ride. Not sure how my E2 was able to get so high while using Ldex. I obviously needed a higher dose from the beginning.

[MR10X]

Heres a study,patients werent using AAS but ther was little difference between 25mg and 50mg a day,also peak levels were 1 hour after administration.

Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Dec;88(12):5951-6.
Pharmacokinetics and dose finding of a potent aromatase inhibitor, aromasin (exemestane), in young males.
Mauras N, Lima J, Patel D, Rini A, di Salle E, Kwok A, Lippe B.
Source

Nemours Children's Clinic and Research Programs, Jacksonville, Florida 32207, USA.
Code:
[email protected]atum in

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Feb;89(2):732.

Abstract

Suppression of estrogen, via estrogen receptor or aromatase blockade, is being investigated in the treatment of different conditions. Exemestane (Aromasin) is a potent and selective irreversible aromatase inhibitor. To characterize its suppression of estrogen and its pharmacokinetic (PK) properties in males, healthy eugonadal subjects (14-26 yr of age) were recruited. In a cross-over study, 12 were randomly assigned to 25 and 50 mg exemestane daily, orally, for 10 d with a 14-d washout period. Blood was withdrawn before and 24 h after the last dose of each treatment period. A PK study was performed (n = 10) using a 25-mg dose. Exemestane suppressed plasma estradiol comparably with either dose [25 mg, 38% (P <or= 0.002); 50 mg, 32% (P <or= 0.008)], with a reciprocal increase in testosterone concentrations (60% and 56%; P <or= 0.003 for both). Plasma lipids and IGF-I concentrations were unaffected by treatment. The PK properties of the 25-mg dose showed the highest exemestane concentrations 1 h after administration, indicating rapid absorption. The terminal half-life was 8.9 h. Maximal estradiol suppression of 62 +/- 14% was observed at 12 h. The drug was well tolerated. In conclusion, exemestane is a potent aromatase inhibitor in men and an alternative to the choice of available inhibitors. Long-term efficacy and safety will need further study

[clarky.]

This is a really informative thread hope you get it sorted jv. just goes to show you need to get bloods done you think every thing fine and its not.