Just began depo and...what happened?

**2Sox** · 02-18-2013, 09:11 PM

Tried Testopel and it worked fine - got up to 1100+, but the pellets were coming out and I felt too hypersexed, so I decided to give it a break and switch to 1.6% Androgel for a while. Loved it and it worked just fine - brought me to 800+ total - but co-pays were high. I wanted to get onto cypionate and my new doctor's protocol is an injection of 400 mg every two weeks. Just got my first shot last Thursday, it's been four days and at this point I feel like I'm not taking T at all. No energy at all and I feel like crap. I'm going to give him a call but in the meantime, can someone tell me what's going on. Is there some sort of adjustment period? Thanks.

**Trific** · 02-18-2013, 11:54 PM

I'd guess that you might have driven your E2 too high.....400mg q 2W is probably going to be a big roller coaster ride...you should try to self inject and consider going to 50mg every 3.5 days for a nice steady ride and consider bringing HCG on board as well.......try that for six weeks and see how it's working.........less is more!

**HRTstudent** · 02-19-2013, 03:19 AM

400mg every two weeks is archaic. You are undoubtedly supraphysiologic testosterone . You are basically going to maximize side effects with this poor protocol.

Ask the doctor to switch you to weekly shots, and check your estradiol sensitive levels. You want to keep this in a healthy range.

Also, gels have discount cards to bring the price down if you haven't tried that. I really hate to see someone change a thing that was working well for them...

**2Sox** · 02-19-2013, 06:47 AM

Thank you both for you replies. Makes sense about E2. (What do you mean by supraphysiologic?) My doctor has been doing this for quite awhile - quite an authority on TRT. What could be his findings from is protocol and reasoning for it? He does check E2 levels monthly. This is his website:
http://thehiddendisease.com/blog/

**dreadnok89** · 02-19-2013, 07:38 AM

Does this dr. Take insurance 2sox? He is pretty close. Did he also give you an ai or hcg ? 400 every 2 weeks sounds off

**Vettester** · 02-19-2013, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

Thank you both for you replies. Makes sense about E2. (What do you mean by supraphysiologic?) My doctor has been doing this for quite awhile - quite an authority on TRT. What could be his findings from is protocol and reasoning for it? He does check E2 levels monthly. This is his website:
http://thehiddendisease.com/blog/

By who's definition is he an authority on TRT? That is one of the worse protocols posted on here in a long time. If he knew how to work within the framework of half-life, peak life, he would be going about it differently with you. Good chance that you are seeing a spike of >1400 on your serum with that dosage, and by day 14 you're probably back down in the 300's. Your E2 can't be doing well with this either, as nothing is steady or stable about the protocol. Lookup some of the things Dr. Crisler does with his patients, and there will be nothing remotely close to this.

**Vettester** · 02-19-2013, 08:01 AM

I saw his site ... At first, I just saw Dr. Gordon, and thought it can't be. Not the same Dr. Mark Gordon, this a Dr. Barry Gordon back east. Two different Gordons, 2 way different approaches on administering HRT.

**dreadnok89** · 02-19-2013, 08:15 AM

Hey vett, maybe he is open to other protocols?

**Vettester** · 02-19-2013, 08:52 AM

There's so many more variables here than just the TRT protocol. I would want to see a complete thyroid panel, E2 sens, DHEA, ..., plus all the CBC's, lipids, etc. Also need to know more about the diagnosis and what led up to it.

**dreadnok89** · 02-19-2013, 09:37 AM

You have to be of gel for thyroid tests?

**sirupate** · 02-19-2013, 03:34 PM

Your testopel pellets were coming out??? Seriously? My doctor told me I could go lift weights the evening after I got my new batch of 12 pellets. He wasn't at all worried about them coming out. So far no problems with 3 procedures.

**2Sox** · 02-19-2013, 03:45 PM

I'm grateful for your responses. I'm very new to TRT and also to this forum. This was the very first shot I ever got. I have no idea why this is his protocol and I have no idea what to expect from any protocol - as I only just began TRT this past July. But I would very much like to know. I would like to hear any and all thoughts on WHY you believe he has chosen this particular approach. It's hard to imagine this is a toss of the dice, poorly arrived at course of treatment. It's very easy to dismiss an idea, especially if it doesn't agree with our own, or something we are familiar with. It's more difficult to try to know and understand something - and the reasons for an action. If it's poor science, it's good to state clearly why - and back it up with facts. I'm all ears and we'll all learn from your comments. Just please don't forget those of us who do not have the background experience and knowledge that you have.

I want to learn as much as I can on this forum. And if this protocol is unwise - or worse - dangerous, it would be good to explain clearly why you believe so. What do you know that you can teach this doctor? If you could ask him any questions you would like to, what would they be? I want to be very clear: By no means am I married to this doctor. I just need good, fact based information on which to make a well informed decision. I could always go back to Androgel or Testopel with my urologist.

This doctor takes insurance, with a $15 co-pay, and I respect him for this. And I also respect his passion and his belief in what he is doing for people who need help. It shows he's "walking the walk." If you read his book, or read the statements on his website, you'd get an idea of why I say this. There are boat loads of doctors who don't give a damn about us people who need treatment and who can't afford a $650 first visit and $350 for each visit thereafter - and take no insurance, like Shippen. They may have started with good intentions but where do they stand now? Which comes first to them - profits or people? In New York City, there is one like this on every corner.

With that said, there is no excuse for any doctor practicing poor medicine - Gordon included.

UPDATE: I called Gordon's office this morning and spoke to the NP who has been treating me with the protocol. I told him what I originally posted here. He explained that it likely had something to do with the gel that was still in my system when I got the shot. I really couldn't follow what he was saying - or maybe he wasn't being as clear as he could. My inexperience, perhaps. But my call is in my chart now and I'll be seeing Gordon himself on the 28th. I've been feeling progressively better over the course of the day. I have my energy and the clarity of my thought back. (But Sunday and Monday were absolutely awful!)

**2Sox** · 02-19-2013, 08:07 PM

Eight pellets - 800mg. Within two months, I lost 3, possibly one more in the shower because the incision was bleeding. So I essentially was left with 400mg for the two remaining months. My urologist supplement me with Androgel . That's when I looked into depo shots. If this doesn't work out, I'll definitely go back to pellets. Other than the extrusions - which are not an unusual occurrence - I really liked them. The effects are felt immediately. Problem was that they weren't inserted deep enough. The P.A. who put them in said next time she'll be sure to go deeper.

**2Sox** · 02-19-2013, 09:24 PM

Duplicate post - deleted.

**sirupate** · 02-20-2013, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

Eight pellets - 800mg. Within two months, I lost 3, possibly one more in the shower because the incision was bleeding. So I essentially was left with 400mg for the two remaining months. My urologist supplement me with Androgel. That's when I looked into depo shots. If this doesn't work out, I'll definitely go back to pellets. Other than the extrusions - which are not an unusual occurrence - I really liked them. The effects are felt immediately. Problem was that they weren't inserted deep enough. The P.A. who put them in said next time she'll be sure to go deeper.

Yeah...you have to get them inserted between the skin and muscle layer. My doctor has been doing 12 for me. He uses quite a bit of anesthetic in the area to get it very numb...I think he told me 3 cc's of lidocaine. My incision has never bled past the first 24 hours. He doesn't seem to be at all concerned with the possibility of me losing them... My only problem with the pellets is getting them inserted often enough to keep me feeling good. I begin to run out of juice at about 4 months. My doctor seems content to let it go farther than that depending on when he can see me and whether he has bloodwork to "justify" another procedure.

**2Sox** · 02-20-2013, 10:11 PM

My urologist has a 4 month protocol. He'll stretch it, but no earlier than 4 months.

**2Sox** · 02-22-2013, 02:24 PM

Just got my lab results back from the day before I took my first test cyp shot.
Total: 240
Free: 33
SHBG: 54!

Could the SHBG number have been the cause of my crash? Still trying to figure this out.