My cutting diet

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-01-2008, 10:02 PM

Meal 1
½ C oats 150 cals / 27g carbs / 5g Protein
1 Cup of eggwhites 125 cals / 5 g carbs / 25g Protein

Meal 2
2 scoops Whey 234 cals / 4g carbs / 48g Protein
2 tbsp flax 260cals / 28g fat

Meal 3
12.5oz can of chicken 300 cals / 0g carbs / 50g Protein
Veggies Assorted

Meal 4 PWO
80g Dextrose 300 calories / 80g carbs
2 scoops whey 234 cals / 4g carbs / 48g Protein

Meal 5
Veggies
12.5 oz Can of chicken / Tuna 300 cals / 0g carbs / 50g Protein
½ C Oats 150 cals / 27g carbs / 5g Protein

Meal 6
2 scoops Whey 234 cals / 4g carbs / 48g Protein
2 tbsp flax 260cals / 28g fat

Calories = 2547
Protein = 279g
Carbs = 151g
Fats = 53g

Im 5'6 / 222lbs / 30%BF
I think protein is too low. What do you think?
This is on a budget btw....I can stand cans and bland oats.

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-02-2008, 08:55 AM

bump

**godkilla** · 05-02-2008, 09:05 AM

sugar in a cutting diet? swap the sugar with some oats.

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-02-2008, 09:25 AM

what sugar?
I only have dextrose as sugars. Maybe you misread?

**Johny-too-small** · 05-02-2008, 09:32 AM

looks okay.

Id introduce green veggies in every meal. Im eating 8-10 oz of greens with every meal. In addition, whey is not a great source of protein and Id eat fish or chicken instead. If you dont like oats, then eat fruit. Eat 40grams of carbs from fruit in every meal. Im not kidding. Everyone on this site bashes fruit but its packed with nutrients and it'll help you lose weight and keep you full because of the volume of food it takes to eat enough of it.

Your fats look okay, Id have a tbl spoon of flax with every meal. You could use more. As far as the amount of protien you have in grams, youre fine.

Also, your bf% is high. Dont feel like you have to eat 6 meals everyday. Eat when your body tells you to. If you lose a tad of muscle, dont sweat it too much youll get it back as your diet improves.

My next comp is in July and I am eating 175-250g carbs from fruit and veggies ED. That will change of course, but Im loosing about 2lbs week right now.

**godkilla** · 05-02-2008, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Mr_Tobz

what sugar?
I only have dextrose as sugars. Maybe you misread?

dextrose is corn sugar.

**teufelhundenjwa** · 05-02-2008, 09:56 AM

Below I have outlined the routine that helped me lose around 30 lbs (over the span of about 5 months).

Nutrition and Supplements:
When I designed my diet, I did take into effect that the FDA recommends certain guidelines for cholesterol and sodium intake. I consume less than 300 mg of cholesterol, and less than 3300 mg of sodium per day. Coming up with a diet that is within these numbers, and still meets my protein/carb/fat ratios has been somewhat difficult. But I'm confident that I have achieved just that.

Currently taking:
3 caps Fish Oil (daily)
2 caps Calcium (daily)
2 gel vit E (daily)
2 caps vit C (daily)
5 grams Creatine Mono (on workout days)
5 grams Glutamine (on workout days)
1 Universal Animal Pak
1 serv Green Bulge
1 serv White Blood
1 serv Glycergrow

My typical diet is as follows:
6:30 AM 4 oz. Turkey, ½ multi grain Bagel, 1 tbsp natural peanut butter
1 Fish Oil, 1 vit C, 1 vit E, 1 Calcium
9:30 AM 1 scoop Protein, 1 serv whole wheat Triscuits, 1 tbsp natural peanut butter
1 Fish Oil
12:30 PM 1 multi grain tortilla, 1 pouch tuna, medium salad
1 Fish Oil, 1 vit C, 1 vit E, 1 Calcium
3:30 PM 1 scoop Protein, 1 serv whole wheat Triscuit's, 1 tbsp natural peanut butter
4:00 PM 1 serv Green Bulge/WB
5:00 PM Workout (during which I sip on 1 serv GlycerGrow)
6:30 PM 1 scoop Protein w/ 5 grams Glut & 5 grams Creatine, also add 23 grams of sugar
7:30 PM 8 egg whites, 1 multi grain tortilla, med salad

I drink b/t 1-1.5 gallons of water per day.

That's it. My daily caloric intake is at 2100 calories. The ratio 37/38/25 is applied to p/c/f. Being a creature of habit and sticking to an outlined diet is fairly easy for myself, most of the time that is.

Workout Split:
A typical workout scheme is as follows:
Mon Chest/Tri
Tue Back/Bi
Wed Off
Thurs Legs
Fri Shoulder/Traps

Excluding warm-up, I complete three work sets for each exercise, reps ranging from 6-10. Major muscle groups get 3 exercises per, minor get 2. Legs are special; I do two exercises for quads, 2 for hams, and 2 for calves.

The pictures I have included are marked as to their perspective date. The re-comp you see has taken place over about 6 months of serious training. During this time I have done maybe, 10 cardio sessions. I know, I know, I'm rectifying that problem as of now. Reason I mention that is to illustrate what a sound diet can do for you.

(First 3 pics taken 060106, 4th and 5th pic taken 111506)

I'm sure I'm going to receive some flack about how low my calories were. I don't feel that I lost that much muscle, and got away with only 10, yes 10 CARDIO SESSIONS.

As you can see I did include some PWO sugar. Although I believe myself to be very carb sensitive, it worked for me. Timing is everything!

Hope this helps

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-02-2008, 12:21 PM

Look at what the unnoficial cutting thread says
The BASICS-
1.Postworkout Nutrition- I’m a firm believer that PWO nutrition is hands down the most important aspect of dieting. It is within the 15 minutes after a workout that your body is in dire need of nutrients. It is a completely anabolic state, and what you take in can be optimized to ensure maximum results. A general rule of thumb is 40-60 grams whey protein, and double the amount of whey in carbohydrates (50% dextrose/50% maltodextrin).

NOW< I don't understand...I finally ordered some dex after never using it, always been using maltodextrin w/whey or no PWO at all...
I don't know why I should take oats, and now I'm doubting the dextrose (corn sugar).

PLEASE HELP!

**ChuckLee** · 05-02-2008, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by godkilla

dextrose is corn sugar.

But it's PWO!!
Someone can use dextrose PWO without any prob.

CL

**ChuckLee** · 05-02-2008, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Tobz

Look at what the unnoficial cutting thread says
The BASICS-
1.Postworkout Nutrition- I’m a firm believer that PWO nutrition is hands down the most important aspect of dieting. It is within the 15 minutes after a workout that your body is in dire need of nutrients. It is a completely anabolic state, and what you take in can be optimized to ensure maximum results. A general rule of thumb is 40-60 grams whey protein, and double the amount of whey in carbohydrates (50% dextrose/50% maltodextrin).

NOW< I don't understand...I finally ordered some dex after never using it, always been using maltodextrin w/whey or no PWO at all...
I don't know why I should take oats, and now I'm doubting the dextrose (corn sugar).

PLEASE HELP!

Don't worry, you are fine if you can keep controlled the insulin spike.
I mean most of us, while cutting, prefer complex carbs to not cause any insulin spike.
You'd have to keep your fat intake equal to ZERO for the next three hours after you PWO shake.
Your diet is pretty in check, but I'd add some complex carbs pre-workout, as an energy supply for your training session.

CL

**ChuckLee** · 05-02-2008, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by teufelhundenjwa

Below I have outlined the routine that helped me lose around 30 lbs (over the span of about 5 months).

Nutrition and Supplements:
When I designed my diet, I did take into effect that the FDA recommends certain guidelines for cholesterol and sodium intake. I consume less than 300 mg of cholesterol, and less than 3300 mg of sodium per day. Coming up with a diet that is within these numbers, and still meets my protein/carb/fat ratios has been somewhat difficult. But I'm confident that I have achieved just that.

Currently taking:
3 caps Fish Oil (daily)
2 caps Calcium (daily)
2 gel vit E (daily)
2 caps vit C (daily)
5 grams Creatine Mono (on workout days)
5 grams Glutamine (on workout days)
1 Universal Animal Pak
1 serv Green Bulge
1 serv White Blood
1 serv Glycergrow

My typical diet is as follows:
6:30 AM 4 oz. Turkey, ½ multi grain Bagel, 1 tbsp natural peanut butter
1 Fish Oil, 1 vit C, 1 vit E, 1 Calcium
9:30 AM 1 scoop Protein, 1 serv whole wheat Triscuits, 1 tbsp natural peanut butter
1 Fish Oil
12:30 PM 1 multi grain tortilla, 1 pouch tuna, medium salad
1 Fish Oil, 1 vit C, 1 vit E, 1 Calcium
3:30 PM 1 scoop Protein, 1 serv whole wheat Triscuit's, 1 tbsp natural peanut butter
4:00 PM 1 serv Green Bulge/WB
5:00 PM Workout (during which I sip on 1 serv GlycerGrow)
6:30 PM 1 scoop Protein w/ 5 grams Glut & 5 grams Creatine, also add 23 grams of sugar
7:30 PM 8 egg whites, 1 multi grain tortilla, med salad

I drink b/t 1-1.5 gallons of water per day.

That's it. My daily caloric intake is at 2100 calories. The ratio 37/38/25 is applied to p/c/f. Being a creature of habit and sticking to an outlined diet is fairly easy for myself, most of the time that is.

Workout Split:
A typical workout scheme is as follows:
Mon Chest/Tri
Tue Back/Bi
Wed Off
Thurs Legs
Fri Shoulder/Traps

Excluding warm-up, I complete three work sets for each exercise, reps ranging from 6-10. Major muscle groups get 3 exercises per, minor get 2. Legs are special; I do two exercises for quads, 2 for hams, and 2 for calves.

The pictures I have included are marked as to their perspective date. The re-comp you see has taken place over about 6 months of serious training. During this time I have done maybe, 10 cardio sessions. I know, I know, I'm rectifying that problem as of now. Reason I mention that is to illustrate what a sound diet can do for you.

(First 3 pics taken 060106, 4th and 5th pic taken 111506)

I'm sure I'm going to receive some flack about how low my calories were. I don't feel that I lost that much muscle, and got away with only 10, yes 10 CARDIO SESSIONS.

As you can see I did include some PWO sugar. Although I believe myself to be very carb sensitive, it worked for me. Timing is everything!

Hope this helps

It sounds more like a

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-02-2008, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by ChuckLee

But it's PWO!!
Someone can use dextrose PWO without any prob.

CL

Hehhe now Im confused.
Is the amount I have correct/good?
Or too much dextrose is bad even PWO when cutting?

**ChuckLee** · 05-02-2008, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by ChuckLee

Don't worry, you are fine if you can keep controlled the insulin spike.
I mean most of us, while cutting, prefer complex carbs to not cause any insulin spike.
You'd have to keep your fat intake equal to ZERO for the next three hours after you PWO shake.
Your diet is pretty in check, but I'd add some complex carbs pre-workout, as an energy supply for your training session.

CL

^^^Here's your answer

CL

Originally Posted by Mr_Tobz

Hehhe now Im confused.
Is the amount I have correct/good?
Or too much dextrose is bad even PWO when cutting?

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-02-2008, 12:41 PM

I want to burn maxximal amount of fat.
What do you suggest?
Oats or dex?

Thanks man!!

**200byjune** · 05-02-2008, 01:44 PM

pwo you wnt gain any fat from dex. it just restores what was lot. dex is fine pwo

**ChuckLee** · 05-02-2008, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by 200byjune

pwo you wnt gain any fat from dex. it just restores what was lot. dex is fine pwo

But some people (like me) find hard to cut with all that amount of sugar anyway, too high glicemic peak.
And nobody said that dex make you gain fat

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-02-2008, 01:48 PM

thanks....but that much? Is 80g used for b ulking?
How much dex?
THANKS!

**ChuckLee** · 05-02-2008, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Tobz

I want to burn maxximal amount of fat.
What do you suggest?
Oats or dex?

Thanks man!!

OATS is the key then.

Good luck

CL

**ChuckLee** · 05-02-2008, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Tobz

thanks....but that much? Is 80g used for b ulking?
How much dex?
THANKS!

Oh please, can you understand? it's not the amount, it's THE PEAK OF INSULIN ACTIVITY. You need low GI carbs to get rid of it

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-02-2008, 01:50 PM

And chuck, could you elaborate?
I wont gain fat, but it is better than oats for cutting?

Why cant you handle the insulin spike?
How much dex?

Im confused!!

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-02-2008, 01:50 PM

got it thanks

**ChuckLee** · 05-02-2008, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Tobz

And chuck, could you elaborate?
I wont gain fat, but it is better than oats for cutting?

Why cant you handle the insulin spike?
How much dex?

Im confused!!

I have to explain you insulin work.
When a high glicemic index carb (dextrose = sugar) is ingested, the pancreas releases insulin to regulate the amount of sugar in your blood.
When insulin is active, it transport ALL the nutrients (pro, carbs, FATS) in the tissues, it means that when it's active it's more possible for fats to be stored.
While cutting, you have to try to limit insulin spikes as more as possible for this reason.
So Oats will be better, being COMPLEX carbs (low GI carbs).

CL

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-02-2008, 02:08 PM

Thanks big man

**ChuckLee** · 05-02-2008, 02:13 PM

No probs.
Whenever.

CL

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-04-2008, 03:41 PM

Listen, I was checking some books out and there was this one about advanced bodybuilding nutrition.
It emphasized ALL the benefits of dextrose pwo. It seems as if oats is not even close to helping the muscle recover and protein synthesis (and a host of other things I don't really understand but would like to )....
It said that oats simply doesn't cut it, and that pwo it won't hurt.
For those in the know like chuck, what do you think (and if dextrose, what dose?)
220lbs
5'6
20%bf

**Visu** · 05-04-2008, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Tobz

Meal 1
½ C oats 150 cals / 27g carbs / 5g Protein
1 Cup of eggwhites 125 cals / 5 g carbs / 25g Protein

Meal 2
2 scoops Whey 234 cals / 4g carbs / 48g Protein
2 tbsp flax 260cals / 28g fat

Meal 3
12.5oz can of chicken 300 cals / 0g carbs / 50g Protein
Veggies Assorted

Meal 4 PWO
80g Dextrose 300 calories / 80g carbs
2 scoops whey 234 cals / 4g carbs / 48g Protein

Meal 5
Veggies
12.5 oz Can of chicken / Tuna 300 cals / 0g carbs / 50g Protein
½ C Oats 150 cals / 27g carbs / 5g Protein

Meal 6
2 scoops Whey 234 cals / 4g carbs / 48g Protein
2 tbsp flax 260cals / 28g fat

Calories = 2547
Protein = 279g
Carbs = 151g
Fats = 53g

Im 5'6 / 222lbs / 20%BF
I think protein is too low. What do you think?
This is on a budget btw....I can stand cans and bland oats.

Bro,something it's not right...let's see...280*4=1120 cals...150*4=600 cals...50*9=450 cals..total=2170 cals..not 2547...on the other hand i think it's way too much cals..i'd say around 1800 should do the trick..and i's drop the pwo carbs and replace them with more protein...they're great on bulk but not such a good ideea on diet.This is my opinion and it's based on my experiences...others might not agree..but it's for free so take it.Good luck!

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-05-2008, 02:37 PM

It's not right because the macros aren't exact.
For example, the tuna and chicken fat cals weren't included.

Meal 1
½ C oats 150 cals / 27g carbs / 5g Protein
1 Cup of eggwhites 125 cals / 5 g carbs / 25g Protein

Meal 2 PWO
1C Oatmeal 300 calories / 54g carbs
2 scoops whey 234 cals / 4g carbs / 48g Protein

Meal 3
Veggies
12.5 oz Can of chicken / Tuna 300 cals / 0g carbs / 50g Protein
½ C Oats 150 cals / 27g carbs / 5g Protein

Meal 4
12.5oz can of chicken 300 cals / 0g carbs / 50g Protein
Veggies Assorted

Meal 5
12.5oz can of chicken 300 cals / 0g carbs / 50g Protein
2 tbsp flax 260cals / 28g fat

Meal 6
12.5oz chicken/tuna 300 cals / 0g carbs / 50g Protein
2 tbsp flax 260cals / 28g fat

Cals=2679 (official)
Protein=283g
Carbs=117g
Fats= 56g fat

AMR (3330)-500=2830 kcal

That's when I have no whey protein

Now this is when it's available (almost same cals)

Meal 1
½ C oats 150 cals / 27g carbs / 5g Protein
1 Cup of eggwhites 125 cals / 5 g carbs / 25g Protein

Meal 2 PWO
1C Oatmeal 300 calories / 54g carbs
2 scoops whey 234 cals / 4g carbs / 48g Protein

Meal 3
Veggies
12.5 oz Can of chicken / Tuna 300 cals / 0g carbs / 50g Protein
½ C Oats 150 cals / 27g carbs / 5g Protein

Meal 4
2 scoops Whey 234 cals / 4g carbs / 48g Protein
2 tbsp flax 260cals / 28g fat

Meal 5
12.5oz can of chicken 300 cals / 0g carbs / 50g Protein
Veggies Assorted

Meal 6
2 scoops Whey 234 cals / 4g carbs / 48g Protein
2 tbsp flax 260cals / 28g fat

Calories = 2547 (official)
Protein = 279g
Carbs = 125g
Fats = 53g

AMR (3330)-500=2830 kcal

What do you guys think, should I go down to 1800?

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-05-2008, 02:39 PM

In your opinion, what should I decrease?
As you can see from the last post, I'm doing ABOUT 500cals less than my active metabolic rate.
1800 seems too little...
Any1?

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-05-2008, 02:44 PM

My diet is almost the same as the sticky, although the sticky has 2170cals.
Maybe I should decrease the flax, or maybe 1 scoop protein on the other meals?

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-05-2008, 03:15 PM

From Nark's thread
To get lbm
225lbs /1.3 (30%)

225*30=173 or 78kg

370+(21.6x78)
= 2054 (BMR with lbm)

= 3194.94 cals =AMR
AMR-500=2684
1800 is pushing it, or no?

**Visu** · 05-06-2008, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by Mr_Tobz

From Nark's thread
To get lbm
225lbs /1.3 (30%)

225*30=173 or 78kg

370+(21.6x78)
= 2054 (BMR with lbm)

= 3194.94 cals =AMR
AMR-500=2684
1800 is pushing it, or no?

In my opinion you got to have huge amounts of muscle to diet eficiently with over 2000 cals.I repeat,IN MY OPINION,based on my experiences.In theory it looks ok,trust me i've tried it,but it dosn't work for me.Id'd cut all the carbs.Personally ,i diet only with protein,it can never be to much ,and if need be can be used for energy too,so why carbs?At first it was tough as i didn't have energy but after a week my body got used to using protein as a energy source so all got back to normal.1800 cals =400 g protein +22 g of fat=aprox 1 kilo of chicken breast.That's what i do,adjusting the numbers as i have 205 lb at 10%.Good luck!

**cam89** · 05-06-2008, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by godkilla

sugar in a cutting diet? swap the sugar with some oats.

its postworkout buddy......yea....

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-06-2008, 10:36 AM

Visu, I PMed you man, you can reply here if you want.

How is this:
Meal 1
1 Cup of eggwhites 125 cals / 5 g carbs / 25g Protein

Meal 2 PWO
1/2C Oatmeal 150 calories / 27g carbs
2 scoops whey
OR

4 tablespoons (40g) dextrose 150cals/40g carbs
2 scoops whey 234 cals / 4g carbs / 48g Protein

Meal 3
Veggies
12.5 oz Can of chicken / Tuna 300 cals / 0g carbs / 50g Protein

Meal 4
2 scoops Whey 234 cals / 4g carbs / 48g Protein
2 tbsp flax 260cals / 28g fat

Meal 5
12.5oz can of chicken 300 cals / 0g carbs / 50g Protein
Veggies Assorted

Meal 6
2 scoops Whey 234 cals / 4g carbs / 48g Protein
2 tbsp flax 260cals / 28g fat

Calories = 2097 (official) / 1713 cardio day
Should I cut the calories even more?
What about PWO, should I keep the carbs?
Protein = 279g
Carbs = 27g from 1/2C oatmeal or 40g if using dextrose
Fats = 53g

AMR (3330)-500=2830 kcal

**Mr_Tobz** · 05-06-2008, 08:18 PM

bump

**novastepp** · 05-07-2008, 10:15 AM

looks like you're thinking the right way, but going the other. i'm responding in the performance nutrition thread and not here due to the fact that I will have a contrasting opinion with many guys.

**novastepp** · 05-07-2008, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Visu

trust me i've tried it,but it dosn't work for me.

Id'd cut all the carbs.Personally ,i diet only with protein,it can never be to much ,and if need be can be used for energy too,so why carbs?At first it was tough as i didn't have energy but after a week my body got used to using protein as a energy source so all got back to normal.

PM me if you want to talk sometime, but that is gross misinformation.

**Jakspro** · 05-07-2008, 04:43 PM

I'd keep dextrose in there for post. You want an increase in insulin PWO, regardless if cutting or bulking. I would, however, keep it around 50, but adjust dependent on workouts.

What is your CURRENT diet. Keep in mind that you dont want to jump into a 700 cal deficit immediately. You might want to keep a consistent maintenance diet for a month before stepping into a cutting phase, you might even drop a pound of fat doing so (if your diet isn't consistent currently).

I think the biggest mistake for dieting down is entering a calorie restricted diet without preparation for one.

Anyone's Opinions?
And Good Luck.

**texasmk4** · 05-13-2008, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Visu

In my opinion you got to have huge amounts of muscle to diet eficiently with over 2000 cals.I repeat,IN MY OPINION,based on my experiences.In theory it looks ok,trust me i've tried it,but it dosn't work for me.Id'd cut all the carbs.Personally ,i diet only with protein,it can never be to much ,and if need be can be used for energy too,so why carbs?At first it was tough as i didn't have energy but after a week my body got used to using protein as a energy source so all got back to normal.1800 cals =400 g protein +22 g of fat=aprox 1 kilo of chicken breast.That's what i do,adjusting the numbers as i have 205 lb at 10%.Good luck!

how did you manage to get 400 g of protein with only 1800 cals??

**Visu** · 05-14-2008, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by texasmk4

how did you manage to get 400 g of protein with only 1800 cals??

The numbers are aproximative,that means more or less,i gave that as an example.If you do the maths 400x4=1600 plus the hidden fats that can be more or less than 20 grams....so what's the problem?

**texasmk4** · 05-14-2008, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Visu

The numbers are aproximative,that means more or less,i gave that as an example.If you do the maths 400x4=1600 plus the hidden fats that can be more or less than 20 grams....so what's the problem?

visu that diet might have worked for you, but does'nt mean it is going to work for everyone. I think diet with no carbs in a long term would not be a good idea.