Friend tried to commit suicide on 3ml Insulin, has he done permanant damage?

**mick86** · 11-17-2008, 11:32 PM

A close friend of mine tried to take his own life twice last weeks by over dosing on Insulin . He took 3ml (300iu) on the both attempts. I'm not sure what happened on the first occasion, but on the second occasion he passed out at the wheel, however woke up some time later and drove home then slept for 2 days. This was 3 days ago, I just spoke to him. He sounds slow and lethargic. He says he feels flat and emotionless. Has he done permanent damage? I told him to see a doctor straight away but I don't think he will. I'm very concerned for him.

It's been a few days now and hes feeling a bit better. We're hoping the lethargacy is from the depression and over sleeping. He still hasn't seen any medical professionals.

**Gear** · 11-18-2008, 01:28 AM

300IU at one time can certainly cause some serious permenant issues. He is very lucky to be where he is now but I suggest he sees a doctor asap.

-Gear

**mick86** · 11-18-2008, 01:33 AM

Yeah I just caused the poison hot line, the said that it can cause neurological damage. He sayd he will see a doctor tomorrow, but I don't know if he will. Its hard, I wanted to convince him that it was necessary without stressing him out more as hes obviously not in the best state at the moment. I don't know what sort of insulin he took, but he used a whole pen.

**Kale** · 11-18-2008, 03:47 AM

I know this is fvcked up but I got into a conversation with a nurse on a plane once and we go onto the subject of suicide (cant remember how). And she said that insulin was the best way to do it, but I think she said like 5cc or maybe even ten was required to do the job properly

**Kale** · 11-18-2008, 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by mick86

Yeah I just caused the poison hot line, the said that it can cause neurological damage. He sayd he will see a doctor tomorrow, but I don't know if he will. Its hard, I wanted to convince him that it was necessary without stressing him out more as hes obviously not in the best state at the moment. I don't know what sort of insulin he took, but he used a whole pen.

Well if he is serious about ending it he sure isnt going to go to a Dr on his !!!

PT · 11-18-2008, 04:03 AM

300ius!!!!! i thought i was going to die the first time i had 10ius. and not enough carbs. wow hopefully he ate about 6 big macs and 4 or 5 bags of chips afterwards.
if he really wants to kill himself he will and there isnt a thing anyone can do about it. i had 2 friends that did it and personally i dont give a shit about them or feel sorry for them at all because they wanted to die. i lost alot of people in this world that wanted to live so i cant feel sorry for anyone who takes there own life.
as for your friend, if you want you and a family member can get him commited for a 48 hour evaluation and i can gurentee the dr's will keep him after that. obviously he needs help

**mick86** · 11-18-2008, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by PT

300ius!!!!! i thought i was going to die the first time i had 10ius. and not enough carbs. wow hopefully he ate about 6 big macs and 4 or 5 bags of chips afterwards.
if he really wants to kill himself he will and there isnt a thing anyone can do about it. i had 2 friends that did it and personally i dont give a shit about them or feel sorry for them at all because they wanted to die. i lost alot of people in this world that wanted to live so i cant feel sorry for anyone who takes there own life.
as for your friend, if you want you and a family member can get him commited for a 48 hour evaluation and i can gurentee the dr's will keep him after that. obviously he needs help

He injected 300iu on two different occasions, no he didn't eat anything at all afterwards. He passed out in his car and couldn't control his body, he said it was hard to breath and he lost control of his bladder.

He admits it was stupid and says he regrets doing it. I don't know whether he will try again or not. This has caused conflict with his girlfriend and he is rather dependent on her at the moment for his happiness.

**mick86** · 11-18-2008, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by Kale

I know this is fvcked up but I got into a conversation with a nurse on a plane once and we go onto the subject of suicide (cant remember how). And she said that insulin was the best way to do it, but I think she said like 5cc or maybe even ten was required to do the job properly

I was also under the impression that the fatality rate when insulin is taken in high doses is higher than most other prescription medications/store obtainable items.

**Gear** · 11-18-2008, 06:24 AM

Mick, to be more specific, this is what happens when you take too much insulin ...

Your blood glucose will drop to the point where you will start to feel dizzy, sweaty and shakey. These are the first symptoms one will experience when using too much insulin and not consuming enough carbohydrates. Other symptoms such as blurry vision and headaches can also occur but this is not where it ends.

If you get to that point and don't consume carbs you can fall into a diabetic coma which can lead to lack of oxygen to the brain which leads to brain damage. This drug is quite nasty if you don't respect it.

I believe your friend is OK now, but I would still see a doc to ensure there is nothing else wrong.

People who want to leave this world in such way need counciling and must be under constant supervision. Please help your friend before he does something stupid again.

-Gear

**widowmaker2** · 11-18-2008, 09:21 AM

my question is was he running any other type of gear? or was he just severly depressed?

**mick86** · 11-19-2008, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by widowmaker2

my question is was he running any other type of gear? or was he just severly depressed?

He had just come off cycle. Before the cycle I'm not aware that he had any history of depression. There was also a girl involved who hes recently fallen in love with. Hes not sure if the girl or the cycle stirred up his emotions.

He had been running Tamoxifen and Clomid. A few days before he did injected all the insulin he told me he was feeling suicidal and had for the foirst time in his adult life found himself crying. I told him to stop the clomid, he only had another few days to go so he finished the course. I talked to him about why I though he was feeling like this, and pointed out that the chemicals where distorting his view of reality and affecting his judgment. I tried to reason with him, I didn't think that he would actually do it. I've noticed thats sometimes the difference between men and women, when a man mentions suicide its often more serious than when a woman does.

I should taken his comments more seriously. I am in close contact with him at the moment. I have first hand experience with depression and suicidal idealization so hopefully that will help.

**mick86** · 11-19-2008, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Gear

Mick, to be more specific, this is what happens when you take too much insulin ...

Your blood glucose will drop to the point where you will start to feel dizzy, sweaty and shakey. These are the first symptoms one will experience when using too much insulin and not consuming enough carbohydrates. Other symptoms such as blurry vision and headaches can also occur but this is not where it ends.

If you get to that point and don't consume carbs you can fall into a diabetic coma which can lead to lack of oxygen to the brain which leads to brain damage. This drug is quite nasty if you don't respect it.

I believe your friend is OK now, but I would still see a doc to ensure there is nothing else wrong.

People who want to leave this world in such way need counciling and must be under constant supervision. Please help your friend before he does something stupid again.

-Gear

I caught up with him as soon as I found out. I have been in close contact with him and I'm trying to help him sort things out. I can't be with him all the time, we have both lost our license's. His girlfriend has asked that they take a break, but I'm really hoping that they can sort things out.

I don't know where he got the insulin from but I know that he used all that he had. I really don't think that he would try it like that again, and he seems to have come to some kind of realisation now that what he did was stupid and that he should be grateful for what he has. Hopefully he won't try to take his life again, as I'm sure that if he did try again he would opt for a more certain method than poisoning.

Hes back to training and eating again, and says that he appreciates my help and felt a lot better after seeing me so that's good to know. Hes one of my best mates and a really good guy. Very loyal and old fashioned.

**oc pitbull** · 11-19-2008, 11:57 AM

I am really sorry to hear about your friend man best of luck.

**mick86** · 11-19-2008, 11:32 PM

Now he wants to start the clomid again. Hes been running Tamoxifen , he says so far he's only completed 10 days of clomid. I'm not sure that he should take it, would he be better of using something like Arimidex instead? I worry that the clomid will make him depressed again plus hes sort of upset about being on a break from his girlfriend at the moment.

I asked him to describe his cycle, this is what he said:

"i was on tribolan 75 10 weeks i think i had 3 mil every 2 days then i had prop 1,5 every second day for 16 weeks stana from week 10-week 16 2 mils every day masteron for 8 weeks 2 mils a week primobolan from week 2 to week 12 i think 2,5 mils which is 500 mgs per week

stana was 100mgs every day

prop 150 mgs every second day

tribolan was 75*3 every 2 days

then masteron 200 mgs per week

and i think thats it
then i had nolvadex during cycle
and some armidex not much
then after cycle i had nolvadex for 1 month and clomid for about 10-15 days"

Thats what he said.

**mick86** · 11-22-2008, 02:40 AM

bump for advice, hes going to get the clomid tonight I believe.

**Kale** · 11-22-2008, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by mick86

bump for advice, hes going to get the clomid tonight I believe.

Clomid is a very bad idea. It may depress him and that is not a good thing with his state of mind at the moment

PT · 11-22-2008, 04:08 AM

yea keep him away from the clomid. if your friend is this unstable then he needs professional help and thats probably the only thing that can save his life. get him to a shrink asap and if he wont go have him commited for an evaluation

**mick86** · 11-22-2008, 04:21 AM

Okay, that's what I was thinking, thanks for the advice. I told him that but he still wants to take it, I worry that on some level he may want to take it so that he finds it easier to try to take his life again. He says he wants it so that he can recover quickly. I know the guy who he will probably try to get it from, I will step in and ask him not to sell it to him.

**lovbyts** · 11-24-2008, 09:23 PM

They guy needs admitted into a phyc ward for evaluation. If he really wanted to kill himself he would have done it, 99% is for attention or depression.

He is not going to go to the doctors, he wants someone to do it all for him.

**DSM4Life** · 11-24-2008, 11:26 PM

How does someone try and commit suicide twice ? Sounds more like a cry for help.

**T_Own** · 11-25-2008, 12:09 AM

dsm throwin down sympathy lol...

its very unfortunate, but like pt said, if they don't want to live theres only so much you can do..

like gear said, i'd be most worried about inducing a coma.

**mick86** · 11-25-2008, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

They guy needs admitted into a phyc ward for evaluation. If he really wanted to kill himself he would have done it, 99% is for attention or depression.

He is not going to go to the doctors, he wants someone to do it all for him.

Originally Posted by DSM4Life

How does someone try and commit suicide twice ? Sounds more like a cry for help.

He injected 300iu of insulin , thats the whole pen! that was all he had access to. After the first failed attempt he acquired another insulin pen and tried again.

Prior to this incident, if I thought that 50-100 iu was enough to kill most people, and that 300 iu was well above the fatal dose. I know know that you would need to use more. I have no doubt that he was 100% committed to ending his life.

If you think that that was a cry for attention I really don't think much of your logical processes. He didn't simply pop some panadol or slit his wrists then call his friends, he employed a method that is very dangerous and drove somewhere isolated and waited to die. When it didn't work he tried again.

He didn't tell anyone what he was planning, he had told me that he had been feeling depressed, that was it. I only found out after the second attempt that he had done it, and I believe that he only told me because at the time he thought that he had caused brain damage and wanted my opinion.

As not only a good friend of his, but also someone who suffers from depression and who has been suicidal I think that I can recognise the difference between attention seeking and a genuine attempt.

PT · 11-25-2008, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

They guy needs admitted into a phyc ward for evaluation. If he really wanted to kill himself he would have done it, 99% is for attention or depression.

He is not going to go to the doctors, he wants someone to do it all for him.

agree 100%. you will be back here telling us about your dead friend in a few months if he dosnt get help. he needs to see a dr. there is a 90% chance he will do it again and if he really did inject 300ius then he wants to die and odds are he wont mess up next time

**mick86** · 11-25-2008, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by PT

agree 100%. you will be back here telling us about your dead friend in a few months if he dosnt get help. he needs to see a dr. there is a 90% chance he will do it again and if he really did inject 300ius then he wants to die and odds are he wont mess up next time

My interpretation of lovbyts post was that he did not believe that my friend wanted to succeed in his attempt. The wording was a little unclear, and I did not understand what he meant by "He is not going to go to the doctors, he wants someone to do it all for him. " Like do you think that he wants some one to force him to seek professional help?

I don't have much faith in the mental health system, as its been of no help to me or my other friends with issues. As a result It's a bit difficult for me to sincerely suggest to him that he sees some one. Personally I have found the support of friends was of much more benefit than the so called professionals. I am there for him, as are a few others, hopefully that is enough.

PT · 11-25-2008, 06:59 AM

i think there are people like that, if your friend is one of them i can not answer. there are definatly people that want help but ar just afraid to ask but if your friend took 300ius of slin i assume his only intention is to die. personally i would have him admited to save his life. it usually takes 2 close friends or family members to have someone admited for an evaluation. i have never personally known anyone with mental health problems so i cant speak about the system but im certain it helps some people. sometimes a chemical imbalance can be causing his depression and a simple pill a day can change this

**mick86** · 11-25-2008, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by PT

i think there are people like that, if your friend is one of them i can not answer. there are definatly people that want help but ar just afraid to ask but if your friend took 300ius of slin i assume his only intention is to die. personally i would have him admited to save his life. it usually takes 2 close friends or family members to have someone admited for an evaluation. i have never personally known anyone with mental health problems so i cant speak about the system but im certain it helps some people. sometimes a chemical imbalance can be causing his depression and a simple pill a day can change this

I agree, there are a lot off people like that, but my friend isn't one of them. Hes a very proud Russian man, there is no way that he would do that kind of thing for attention, it's far to degrading, he meant it.

Although hes a close friend I have only known him a few months and I have never met his family, though we do have some mutual friends. I could talk to them about having him committed, but I wonder if that is really what is best for him. He probably needed it last week, but he seems a lot netter now. I would certainly feel terrible if he did take his life ands I could of done something to prevent it.

As for antidepressants I'm not convinced that they work all that well either. Although they do seem to help some people I have tried numerous and found the side effects to well out way any slight improvement if there was in fact one at all.

**jg42058p** · 11-25-2008, 12:16 PM

my friend died from insulin usage, but it didn't look like a suicide...

i hope ur friend gets the help he needs. Ive been on antidepressants for 10 years and now they have finally started to work.. let him know that life can get better, suicide is just a permanent answer to a temporary problem...

**mick86** · 11-26-2008, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by jg42058p

my friend died from insulin usage, but it didn't look like a suicide...

i hope ur friend gets the help he needs. Ive been on antidepressants for 10 years and now they have finally started to work.. let him know that life can get better, suicide is just a permanent answer to a temporary problem...

I think I have read about your friend passing away, it was from a low dose I think you said, like just 10iu. Sorry to hear about that.

10 years is a long time to be depressed and still get on with life, I don't know how you managed that but it can't have been easy.

I actually have pretty relaxed views on suicide and euthanasia but only in certain situations, and in my friends case I think that it would of been a tragic loss.

**Tigershark** · 11-26-2008, 04:47 AM

Mick,
Get your friend some psychiatric help. It sounds like he needs it and a therapist can get to the root of the problem. People who try ti commit suicide never really tell thier friends what the problem is. He needs to talk to a neutral party so he does not feel like he is being judged. If you do not intervine he is going to succeed. How old is he by the way?

**PrideFEDOR** · 11-26-2008, 07:27 AM

Dude , what kinda friend are u ? if it happened to my friend, I'll be there after the first time, called 911 and put him in some sort of instutution where he could get help. This is unbelievable. U trust a guy who promises u to go to the doctor ( FukING TOMMORROW) after two suicides. I'd be there for someone that I know who's not my friend if i find out he took 300iu. I dont know people , but I'd rather have no friends than a friend like that ( no offense my man, just saying how it is). I've seen too much death and caused too much death myself and I believe u are killing him by not doing anything ASAP.

**lovbyts** · 11-26-2008, 07:43 AM

Ease up, sometimes it's hard to know what to do and also some people are opposed to psychiatric help, to them it's worse than the problem being labeled. For example, my 2nd ex wife was having physical and mental issues. She was not being suicidal but having memory issue along with other physical issues that none of the idiot doctors could pinpoint because they where pin heads. She was having seizures and possibly mini strokes due to her symptoms. One doctor called her and told her he wanted her to check into a phyc ward for evaluation. That was all it took, one phone call. She was dead 5 minutes later.

idiot doctor.

Yes he needs help but you have to do it right. If he makes the phone call alone they will do nothing but maybe alert him that people are worried about him giving him the chance to finish the job. He is here looking for advice on how to proceed.

**PrideFEDOR** · 11-26-2008, 07:55 AM

U're talking about a completely different thing ! Ur x wasn't suicidal so there was no way to know. Its not doctors fault or anyone else's. In mick's case , his friend tried twice to off his ass in a week and he believes that he'll go to the doctor tommorrow. Come on now. Im sorry , but I came from where human life worth less than a good leather jacket from CK or D&G. So please B, i'll do whatever in my power to keep someone from killing themselves. If u think that what he did was the right thing to do , I hope u wouldn't want to have anyone like that by your side when sh*t hits the fan one day and u need an emergency help . Maybe that will change ur perspective. Lets just agree to disagree , because this conversation can last forever.
U think he was right , I think he was wrong. Choose ur friends wisely they say

**mick86** · 11-26-2008, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Tigershark

Mick,
Get your friend some psychiatric help. It sounds like he needs it and a therapist can get to the root of the problem. People who try ti commit suicide never really tell thier friends what the problem is. He needs to talk to a neutral party so he does not feel like he is being judged. If you do not intervine he is going to succeed. How old is he by the way?

He has actually been pretty open with me. We are pretty similar in many ways, when he told me what he had done, after telling him how much I disagree with what he had done I told him about my experiences with depression and suicide idolization so that he didn't feel embarrassed. He's 22 like myself. Sometimes therapists aren't all that helpful, like I mentioned in one of my earlier reply's I have found friends support to be much more helpful than any therapist.

Originally Posted by PrideFEDOR

Dude , what kinda friend are u ? if it happened to my friend, I'll be there after the first time, called 911 and put him in some sort of instutution where he could get help. This is unbelievable. U trust a guy who promises u to go to the doctor ( FukING TOMMORROW) after two suicides. I'd be there for someone that I know who's not my friend if i find out he took 300iu. I dont know people , but I'd rather have no friends than a friend like that ( no offense my man, just saying how it is). I've seen too much death and caused too much death myself and I believe u are killing him by not doing anything ASAP.

You are very judgmental considering you clearly haven't even read most of thew thread. Im a very worried friend who would hate to see him take his life. He did not tell me about the 1st attempt until after the second one. Personally when I have been suicidal in the past if I thought that I was going to be locked up I would most likely feel that I needed to take my life before that happened as happened with lovbyts ex wife. Also remember that he is a bodybuilder, its very important to him (as with me) that he has access to a gym and proper nutrition/supplements, you dont get that in a phyc ward, all you get is sedation and isolation. I can't think of a worse place to be. You really think that he would be better off with no friends than knowing me, either you are just trying to stir me up or you may have a few screws loose yourself. Since this has happened we have become closer, he has made it clear how much he appreciates my support, I talk to him every day and see him when I can (neither of us have our driving licenses atm). I have talked to other people who know him and have taken it on as my responsibility to make sure that he is ok. I wish that during my times of crises that I had someone show me that kind of support, I was mainly left to dealt with things myself.

btw you say that you have "caused too much death" wtf...?

**mick86** · 11-26-2008, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Ease up, sometimes it's hard to know what to do and also some people are opposed to psychiatric help, to them it's worse than the problem being labeled. For example, my 2nd ex wife was having physical and mental issues. She was not being suicidal but having memory issue along with other physical issues that none of the idiot doctors could pinpoint because they where pin heads. She was having seizures and possibly mini strokes due to her symptoms. One doctor called her and told her he wanted her to check into a phyc ward for evaluation. That was all it took, one phone call. She was dead 5 minutes later.

idiot doctor.

Yes he needs help but you have to do it right. If he makes the phone call alone they will do nothing but maybe alert him that people are worried about him giving him the chance to finish the job. He is here looking for advice on how to proceed.

Thanks for the support. It seems you can see my reasoning I can certainly see where your coming from. I don't think that my friend needs to be committed, I think that he need to see that those around him care about him and that he still has a lot to live for.

Really sorry to hear about your ex wife.

**lovbyts** · 11-26-2008, 09:33 AM

Don't get me wrong, I do think your friend need quick help, maybe committed for evaluation BUT it needs to be done right where he has no warning about it but picked up without warning so he can not do harm to himself before anyone gets to him. If he has warning they are coming or something is happening he may try again. Call some friends and get over there to keep an eye on him. I wish I had some insight on what was going to happen with the ex and hindsight is always 20/20.

**PrideFEDOR** · 11-26-2008, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by mick86

You are very judgmental considering you clearly haven't even read most of thew thread. Im a very worried friend who would hate to see him take his life. He did not tell me about the 1st attempt until after the second one. Personally when I have been suicidal in the past if I thought that I w as going to be locked up I would most likely feel that I needed to take my life before that happened as happened with lovbyts ex wife. Also remember that he is a bodybuilder, its very important to him (as with me) that he has access to a gym and proper nutrition/supplements, you dont get that in a phyc war, all you get is sedation and isolation. I can't think of a worse place to be. You really think that he would be better off with no friend than knowing me, either you are just trying to stir me up or you may have a few screws loose yourself. Since this has happened we have become closer, he has made it clear how much he appreciates my support, I talk to him every day and see him when I can (neither of us have our driving licenses atm). I have talked to other people who know him and have taken it on as my responsibility to make sure that he is ok. I wish that during my times of crises that I had someone show me that kind of support, I was mainly left to dealt with things myself.

btw you say that you have "caused too much death" wtf...?

FIRST, u never tell a person who's suicidal that he's about to be institutionalized. U just saying that what u did isn't the worse thing u could've done cause u could've "pour some gas on the flame" by telling him that MO is comming for his ass.

I fought in Chechnya for a year that's where causing too much death comming from. I swore that I wont take a human life unless my own life or lives of my family members are in danger. I also swore that I'll do whatever I can to save other people's lives if I can. AND I DID TOO.
Im not trying to stir anything , I say how it is without sugarcoating anything. The dude is alive because of a miracle and ur trying to find excuses for urself by saying u didn't make a call because u were worried about him going to the gym ? Are u serious ? lmao This dude Is not in the right mind to be on his own, period ! GYM wont make his head better. After he'd get better he'd start exercising ( even by doing push ups in his room if the facility he'd be sent to wouldn't have no gym).
There was a very good guy on the boards. His name was Dan. He killed himself a few years ago. Im sure many bros here know who i am talking about. HE had all the access to the gym he needed. Did it help ? When people are suicidal they need professional help. Not what U think is better for them !

**PrideFEDOR** · 11-26-2008, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Don't get me wrong, I do think your friend need quick help, maybe committed for evaluation BUT it needs to be done right where he has no warning about it but picked up without warning so he can not do harm to himself before anyone gets to him. If he has warning they are coming or something is happening he may try again. Call some friends and get over there to keep an eye on him. I wish I had some insight on what was going to happen with the ex and hindsight is always 20/20.

hahahaha got it MICK ! Its a common sense dude ! Sometimes doctors feel they're connected to people they talk on the phone and do the wrong thing. If u talk to a person like that on the phone, u gotta stay on and talk until help comes. Do I believe that the doctor made a wrong choice by telling lovbyts wife she's about to hit MO ward ? Of course. Is it his fault she's dead ? No ! If ur friend kills himself will it be your fault, MICK ? NO ! Could u do something to save him ? YES ! That's my point !

PT · 11-26-2008, 11:22 AM

ok this post has gone way off the topic of hgh/slin/igf so im moving it to the lounge so you can get a wider view from more members

**calgarian** · 11-26-2008, 11:44 AM

So instead of calling sucide helpline you are asking fo opinion. He tried twice already how long you think it will be before he tries again. U call himself his friend ? call suicide hot line and get him for his head examination. Make sure it happens I know he wont like it but do it if u want to save his life.

**mick86** · 11-26-2008, 12:57 PM

I don't feel the need to continue to defend my actions. Non of his other friends nor his (now ex) girlfriend must have thought it to be a good idea either or they would have done it.

All I wanted was advice as to whether or not it was likely that he had done permanent neurological damage, then some advice on how he should complete his PCT. I appreciate the advice and respect the opinions of those who stated their opinion with respect to me and my friend but in the end of the day you don't know him personally and just because one means of treatment may benefit some people or even a majority of people doesn't mean that it would be best for him. He had a dark patch, it lasted a week, during that time he made 2 attempts but then by the time he contacted me it was already over and he was regretful for what he had done and thankful to still be alive.

Hes doing much better, getting his life back on track, making plans for the future and moving on. Hes priority's are training, spending time with mates and dealing with a few things in his life that have been causing him stress. I feel comfortable that he won't try to take his life again and having him committed would just cause him problems and screw up our friend ship.