So when does Testosterone really "kick in"?

[Swifto]

So when does Testosterone really "kick in"?

Perhaps this recent study (Dec 2009) may explain when hypogondal males are given either Testosterone Enanthate (TE) or Testosterone Undecanoate (TU) and they examined various effects on sex/mood.



Aging Male. 2009 Dec;12(4):113-8.

Timetable of effects of testosterone administration to hypogonadal men on variables of sex and mood.


Jockenhövel F, Minnemann T, Schubert M, Freude S, Hübler D, Schumann C, Christoph A, Gooren L, Ernst M.

Evangelisches Krankenhaus Herne, Herne, Germany. f.jockenhoevel@evk-herne.de



INTRODUCTION: The effects of testosterone have been extensively characterized, but little attention has been given to the timetable of occurrence of the various effects of testosterone. METHODS: The timetables of effects on sexual and psychological variables in 40 hypogonadal men receiving treatment with either parenteral testosterone enanthate (TE) or undecanoate (TU). RESULTS: Sexual thoughts/fantasies and sexual interest/desire/spontaneous morning erections emerged quickly and plateaued after 3 weeks. Total erections rose to a maximum over 9 weeks and then plateaued. Ejaculations per week/satisfaction with sex life rose over the first 3 weeks, increasing steadily to a plateau at 12 weeks. Depression scores decreased to reach a plateau after 6 weeks. Aggressiveness did not change. Scores of concentration improved and reached a plateau after 3 weeks in the group treated with TE and after 9 weeks in the group treated with TU. Good mood improved after 6-9 weeks. Positive effects on self-confidence appeared between 3-6 weeks and on fatigue after 9-12 weeks. CONCLUSION: Insight into the emergence of effects may be useful information for the patient and for the attending physician in monitoring clinical effects of testosterone treatment of hypogonadal men.

PMID: 19909203 [PubMed - in process]

[CaliPhotog]

Hey Swifto, nice post thanks for the info. Do you have any idea what dose was administered?

[Swifto]

Originally Posted by CaliPhotog

Hey Swifto, nice post thanks for the info. Do you have any idea what dose was administered?

I dont have the full paper, it only came out today and I dont want to have to fork out $30 for it just yet. The full paper may get posted in the next few days.

However, the study is on hypogondal males given "treatment" which is another word for HRT IMHO. That would mean the doses are between 100-150mg/wk IMHO.

[tballz]

Interesting...

Looking forward to reading the whole report.

[ythrashin]

Nice post. Thanks

[chuckt12345]

nice post,, ill have to agree on all fronts,, i been on trt at about 150mg/wk cyp for 6 wks now and sex drive was up within a wk or 2 ,, and mood has recently elevated in the past week or so. Little diffrent than normal test cycles because of the dose but i almost feel better at TRT doses.

[CaliPhotog]

Originally Posted by chuckt12345

nice post,, ill have to agree on all fronts,, i been on trt at about 150mg/wk cyp for 6 wks now and sex drive was up within a wk or 2 ,, and mood has recently elevated in the past week or so. Little diffrent than normal test cycles because of the dose but i almost feel better at TRT doses.

Interesting that you amlost feel better at the low dose! Are you self administering or are you Dr. supervised? Only asking cause I was considering putting myself on a self administered HRT sometime in the future.

[chuckt12345]

Originally Posted by CaliPhotog

Interesting that you amlost feel better at the low dose! Are you self administering or are you Dr. supervised? Only asking cause I was considering putting myself on a self administered HRT sometime in the future.

doc prescribed. My levels have been low all my life (pre juice) i talked with him and dont plan on running it for the rest of my life,, we will go 6 months and then take it from there.
i dont thnk i have paid as much attention to how i feel on previous cycles,, i was more into it for muscle growth. This time im more concerned about well being and being normal so maybe that is why i thnk the lower dose is makin me feel better.

[Aizen Sosuke]

Great post swifto. Will be waiting for the entire paper. So much for kickstarting cycles of test e when you could be feeling withing the first three weeks.

[PuzzyFalker]

Very interesting. Great post.

[big_k]

Originally Posted by Swifto

I dont have the full paper, it only came out today and I dont want to have to fork out $30 for it just yet. The full paper may get posted in the next few days.

However, the study is on hypogondal males given "treatment" which is another word for HRT IMHO. That would mean the doses are between 100-150mg/wk IMHO.

Hey Swifto I bought the article through my school Enjoy our tax dollars at work.


Its too big to Upload to AR so I uploaded to Google Docs

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...ZjQ5OTdl&hl=en

[alpmaster]

Why did they use such subjective data points (# of erections, self-confidence, depression, etc.)? Blood values for each week would have been much better.

[Swifto]

Originally Posted by big_k

Hey Swifto I bought the article through my school Enjoy our tax dollars at work.


Its too big to Upload to AR so I uploaded to Google Docs

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...ZjQ5OTdl&hl=en

Wow, thanks. Its very interesting.

All men were technically "hypogondal" for at least 8 weeks proir to starting treatment. There total T must be >5nmol/L.

The TU group were on Nebido. The first 4 injections at two intervals of 6 weeks (loading) followed by every 9 weeks, then every 12 weeks. So after the 9 weeks its around 90mg/wk. The TE group were given 250mg every 3 weeks, which is 83.3mg/wk.

Petients were tested on 12 items (sociability, concentration, agitation, self-confidence, listlessness (inertness), dizziness, activation, depression, fatigue, anxiety, good mood and aggressivity).

[Swifto]

The effects on sexual behaviour seem to be the most rapid at around 3 weeks.

But there seems to be differences in neuropsiological mechanisms when explaining nocturnal erections and erections from sexual thoughts. Noctural erections are exquisitively dependant on androgens, whilst other types of erections are less so. So "morning wood" (as you Americans put it) seems to be a good indication of androgen production or lack of, during PCT.

[Little Herc]

Great post!!!

[Swifto]

TE and TU both DID NOT have effects on aggressivity.

All though it brought a study to my attention where some of 52 patients DID exert aggressive behaviour on 600mg/wk Test Cyp. The majority did not.

"...42 (84%) exhibited minimal psychiatric effects (maximum YMRS score, <10), 6 (12%) became mildly hypomanic (YMRS score, 10-19), and 2 (4%) became markedly hypomanic (YMRS score, > or =20). The 8 "responders" and 42 "nonresponders" did not differ significantly on baseline demographic, psychological, laboratory, or physiological measures."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10665615?ordinalpos=&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.P ubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.SmartSearch&log$=citatio nsensor

[BJJ]

Originally Posted by big_k

Hey Swifto I bought the article through my school Enjoy our tax dollars at work.


Its too big to Upload to AR so I uploaded to Google Docs

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...ZjQ5OTdl&hl=en

Originally Posted by Swifto

Wow, thanks. Its very interesting.

All men were technically "hypogondal" for at least 8 weeks proir to starting treatment. There total T must be >5nmol/L.

The TU group were on Nebido. The first 4 injections at two intervals of 6 weeks (loading) followed by every 9 weeks, then every 12 weeks. So after the 9 weeks its around 90mg/wk. The TE group were given 250mg every 3 weeks, which is 83.3mg/wk.

Petients were tested on 12 items (sociability, concentration, agitation, self-confidence, listlessness (inertness), dizziness, activation, depression, fatigue, anxiety, good mood and aggressivity).

Thanks to both.

[big_k]

Originally Posted by Swifto

Wow, thanks. Its very interesting.

All men were technically "hypogondal" for at least 8 weeks proir to starting treatment. There total T must be >5nmol/L.

The TU group were on Nebido. The first 4 injections at two intervals of 6 weeks (loading) followed by every 9 weeks, then every 12 weeks. So after the 9 weeks its around 90mg/wk. The TE group were given 250mg every 3 weeks, which is 83.3mg/wk.

Petients were tested on 12 items (sociability, concentration, agitation, self-confidence, listlessness (inertness), dizziness, activation, depression, fatigue, anxiety, good mood and aggressivity).

np If you need any more articles, or anyone needs some just let me know. I can usually dig them up instantly, and the harder to find ones take 3-5 days. (physically photocopied from another library by a librarian)

[chuckt12345]

Originally Posted by alpmaster

Why did they use such subjective data points (# of erections, self-confidence, depression, etc.)? Blood values for each week would have been much better.

cus blood values dont actually show erections, self confidence, etc. A certain ng amount in one male may not give erections to another male with the same number. Lots of Docs and Endos go more about how the patient feels/responds physically than the results seen on paper.