Am I loosing hair while on finasteride from increasing the test dose?

**mick86** · 10-09-2008, 12:47 PM

Hi,

I am just over two weeks in to my third cycle, I am currently running test enanthate at 650mg per week and insulin at 10iu post workout. I'm also using finasteride at 1.25mg per day, Rogaine twice daily and Nizoral 5% here and there though soon to become daily. Have also started using Arimidex at 0.25mg eod.

I wish to minimise any (more) hair loss from my cycles, and mid way through my last cycle I started taking finasteride at 1.25mg per day and using the Rogaine. On that cycle I was running Test at 500mg per week and Deca at 400mg per week (know I know that deca and finasteride don't mix).

Anyway, once off the deca, the finasteride seemed to pretty much prevent any hair shedding as far as I could tell. On this cycle on at least two occasions in the two weeks that I have been on I have run my hands though my hair, or styled it and noticed an unusually large amount of hair come out. Off cycle this was not happening. My question is this:

Can a high test cycle still cause hair loss even if combined with a DHT blocker. I heard that as testosterone is androgenic itself, if ran high enough then hair loss may still occur. In that case then upping the test dose may not be a good idea as clearly you are trying to avoid hair loss.

Hopefully either I'm just being paranoide or there is a simple explanation. I though I was being paranoide on the first two cycles untill I lost enough that people started to comment.

I will add that I am currently using a generic finasteride bought from an online pharmacy, its Cipla Finicar but I have no reason to doubt its authenticity.

Thanks guys, and my hair thanks you too

(sorry my post always end up really long

)

**mick86** · 10-10-2008, 02:08 AM

bump

**rhino1** · 10-10-2008, 03:01 AM

try dutasteride from ar-r

**mick86** · 10-10-2008, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by rhino1

try dutasteride from ar-r

As far as I'm aware they don't ship to Australia. Why do you recommend dutasteride over finasteride?

**mick86** · 10-11-2008, 06:24 AM

bump.....

**mick86** · 10-11-2008, 11:47 AM

Hmm, clearly not many people wish to input but as this is an issue very important to me thought I'd bump my post again.

My hair still seems to be shedding faster than usual, I am due for a shot tonight and am considering lowering the test dose.

Not sure if that will help as I've had any real reply's. I though I'd try 600mg per week. I'm assuming that the same half life principle applies when lowering the weekly dose as when front loading, so as I injected 650mg last week I will have an extra 25mg (half of the extra 50mg). That means that this week instead of using 600mg I should use 575mg. That will be 2 shots of 287mg. I'll wait around 30mins before doing the shot so any advice before (or after) would be much appreciated.

I'm not willing to lose my hair for the sake of getting a little bigger.

**Pooks** · 10-11-2008, 01:00 PM

use the search button.. this has been discussed many times over..

yes Testosterone can cause hair loss..

Testosterone binds to the hair follicule receptor the same way DHT does.

DHT binds stronger.. more effective...

---
Not sure what to tell u...
u can try bumping up the dose of the FInasteride.. but I can't guarantee you, it won't make u shed in 2 months,, like it does when u first start using it.

---
2. u can try a topical anti-adrogen.. no idea how effective that is.. and once it gets into your body thru your scalp.. i have no doubt it does become systematic..

so it would kill your gains.. some of them are even considered toxic..

Crappy Situation.. all part of aging and being human.
personally i'd try bumping up the dose of Finasteride.. toss in some rogaine.. to protect the crown hair.. and if you have a good job, put some money aside for a hair transplant

**mick86** · 10-11-2008, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Pooks

use the search button.. this has been discussed many times over..

yes Testosterone can cause hair loss..

Testosterone binds to the hair follicule receptor the same way DHT does.

DHT binds stronger.. more effective...

---
Not sure what to tell u...
u can try bumping up the dose of the FInasteride.. but I can't guarantee you, it won't make u shed in 2 months,, like it does when u first start using it.

---
2. u can try a topical anti-adrogen.. no idea how effective that is.. and once it gets into your body thru your scalp.. i have no doubt it does become systematic..

so it would kill your gains.. some of them are even considered toxic..

Crappy Situation.. all part of aging and being human.
personally i'd try bumping up the dose of Finasteride.. toss in some rogaine.. to protect the crown hair.. and if you have a good job, put some money aside for a hair transplant

Appreciate your help.

On average I spend at least an hour or two on this forum every day and amongst other things that I read up on I search for hair loss information. I hadn't seen much information on the question that I posted.

I remember seeing your posts before, if my memory serves me correctly you too experienced hair thinning/loss from AAS but were not able to do much about it.

I'm already using a topical anti androgen (Nizoral 5%) and also already using Rogain. I will take your advice and up my dose of finasteride, along with my own advice of lowering the testosterone level down to 600mg. I actually lowered the test dose down to 575mg this week trying to account for the half life effect of the gear in my system from last week. Dont know if I got it right, or how that will affect next week when I go to 600mg per week. My thoughts were that as I used 50mg more last week than I want in my system this week, half of the extra 50mg (25mg) will carry on on into this week.

Thanks again, also where are you currently at with your hair situation? Mine thickened up in the few months after my last cycle, was expecting to see further improvement (as I'd not yet been on the finasteride 6 months), which is why I don't want to make it any worse.

**mick86** · 10-15-2008, 02:52 PM

UPDATE

I have lowered my test dose for my last 2 shots,

Initially I was going to go down to 600mg pw so I injected half of that minus 25mg which was done as I was trying to allow for the fact that I had been running 650mg pw prior to that and around 25mg over 300mg would carry over due to the slow release of test enanthate (300mg is half of my desired dose, I'm shooting twice per week).

The second shot I did I decided that I would actually be better off going down to 550mg pw so I injected 25mg under half of 550mg because I calculated the total mg shot in the previous week (325mg + 275mg=600mg) and again tried to allow for the carried over 25mg or so excess.

Anyway was wondering if anybody has any idea how long that I would have to wait for the shedding to cease? its been a week now and I'm still loosing it like crazy. I really want to get big but not at the sake of loosing my hair.

I've also started taking Saw Palmetto at 1.6g per day and upped my finasteride from 1.25mg/day to 1.8mg/day.

On my last cycle running the test at 500mg pw with finasteride at 1.25mg pd Rogain and Nizoral I was able to stop the shedding. I wonder if that as Insulin lowers SHBG and frees up more testosterone that could be contributing to the shedding.

Any advice, tips, pointers, reassurance or even criticism much welcomed.

**Iced696** · 10-15-2008, 08:34 PM

My friend, I feel your pain as I've been there. I have seen this question asked before and I always say the same thing. Get yourself some Nizoral Shampoo. It is available online and can even be bought on ebay. This has been shown to drastically slow the hair loss associated with AAS use and on top of that it can be used for the pimples also experienced during a cycle. Trust me, it's worth your time to look into it.

**mick86** · 10-16-2008, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by Iced696

My friend, I feel your pain as I've been there. I have seen this question asked before and I always say the same thing. Get yourself some Nizoral Shampoo. It is available online and can even be bought on ebay. This has been shown to drastically slow the hair loss associated with AAS use and on top of that it can be used for the pimples also experienced during a cycle. Trust me, it's worth your time to look into it.

I use it every night, the 5% strength and I leave it in for at least 5 mins, I put in into my hair before I get into the shower. I mentioned it in the 1st paragraph of my opening post in the thread.

How do you go about applying it, did you see much of a reduction in haitr loss?

On my last cycle I was able to eventually limit hair shedding, I am trying to work out whats causing it to shed on this one. I thought I had all my bases covered.

**DSM4Life** · 10-16-2008, 05:14 AM

How many times do i need to say it. If your prone to MPB then its going to fall out on a cycle no matter what you take. In order for fina to even help your suppose to start it about 6 months before you run the actual cycle.

**mick86** · 10-16-2008, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by DSM4Life

How many times do i need to say it. If your prone to MPB then its going to fall out on a cycle no matter what you take. In order for fina to even help your suppose to start it about 6 months before you run the actual cycle.

I started it around 4 months before. No need to be rude, there is a lot of conflicting information on the topic (as with many topics relating to AAS/training). Also I am not sure why you believe that it takes finasteride 6 months to start being effective at preventing hair loss on cycle, I have not heard that before, not from my doctor, not from the Proscar website, not from other bodybuilders. I would be interested in hearing you reasoning for this. Not saying that I don't believe you, but it is news to me.

You clearly have a hard line view that nothing will help, may other people believe otherwise.

**DSM4Life** · 10-16-2008, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by mick86

I started it around 4 months before. No need to be rude, there is a lot of conflicting information on the topic (as with many topics relating to AAS/training). Also I am not sure why you believe that it takes finasteride 6 months to start being effective at preventing hair loss on cycle, I have not heard that before, not from my doctor, not from the Proscar website, not from other bodybuilders. I would be interested in hearing you reasoning for this. Not saying that I don't believe you, but it is news to me.

You clearly have a hard line view that nothing will help, may other people believe otherwise.

Not trying to be a D!ck just trying to get you ready for the inevitable.

About the 6 months ...

"
PATIENCE: Propecia takes time. Do not expect results in 3 months. If you are a good responder, your hair loss will stop at about month 4. You typically will not see any regrowth until month 6 to 8, and your optimum results on the treatment won't be seen until after one full year. Be patient, know that you've got an 83% chance to keep what you have today, and let it do its job."

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/productr.../men/propecia/

**TheDfromGC** · 10-16-2008, 04:34 PM

mick just so u know dutasteride is proven to block much more dht compared with finasteride. id consider possibly switching. another thing though is the more dht thats blocked the more ive read of peoples gains slowing and looking softer. so its a trade-off...and i personally wouldnt be running things like dutasteride for too long of a time period ive read of weird sides occuring years down the road in the libido area and many have pointed the finger at the finasteride or dutasteride they used. goodluck

**mick86** · 10-17-2008, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by TheDfromGC

mick just so u know dutasteride is proven to block much more dht compared with finasteride. id consider possibly switching. another thing though is the more dht thats blocked the more ive read of peoples gains slowing and looking softer. so its a trade-off...and i personally wouldnt be running things like dutasteride for too long of a time period ive read of weird sides occuring years down the road in the libido area and many have pointed the finger at the finasteride or dutasteride they used. goodluck

Okay, thanks. I don't know much about dutasteride so will need to do some research. Can I just switch straight from one to the other? Maybe I could use dutasteride on cycle and finasteride off. Any other info on dutasteride would be much appreciated.

**Pooks** · 10-17-2008, 05:10 PM

Sup Mick..

I still got my hair LOL..
with dutasteride and Nizoral I halted the hair loss, but around the same time I was off the juice also..

eventually the Dutasteride was really Messing with my head.. I had the "fog brain" syndrome a lot of people talk about.

I had to drop it, cause it was really making me miserable, and felt like I was going insane LOL... i guess best way to put it.

My hair has been good to me, and I've done 2 cycles.. the last cycle here at the end, it started receading again..

at the same time, the fog-brain completely went away.. so I've read that it takes Dutasteride a whole year to clear your system, so I'm guessing that is what happened.. it finally left my system, but now i'm back to hairloss.

So I'm jumping on Finasteride.. and hoping it does not cause the fog-brain syndrome.. and also gonna keep using the Nizoral..

so good luck to you bro.. the secret might be in Finasteride dosing during a cycle... as with Dutasteride I would bump up the dose from 10mg to 20mg during a cycle, and that had worked.. and I got that from another member on this board who also vouched by that... but who knows.