arginine

**bigordie** · 07-05-2004, 07:48 PM

can someone tell me a good supplementation guide for arginine? What i am doing right now is 1000mg AM, 2000 pre workout, then 1000 PM. Is that enough?

6'3
205lbs

**iNvid** · 07-05-2004, 07:58 PM

Why not just take 3000mg AM then 3000mg PM? Thats how you would do no2, whihc is the same stuff...

**eacman65** · 07-07-2004, 02:02 PM

yeah invid is right try it like that

**bigordie** · 07-07-2004, 02:36 PM

i just wanted to spread it out a little more because no2 is time released and regular arginine is not...

**eacman65** · 07-07-2004, 02:37 PM

no2 is garbage anyways

**nsa** · 07-07-2004, 03:28 PM

Arginine is not really much help to strength or mass gains, thats why no one has wrote much on it.

**bigordie** · 07-07-2004, 05:55 PM

but at the same time it is an inexpensive supplement and it would be great if my body reacted positively to it...one more question is it best taken before a meal?

**iNvid** · 07-07-2004, 06:15 PM

Yes, 30 mins before meals.

**nsa** · 07-07-2004, 06:48 PM

How would your body react to it, it will give you a slightly better pump in the gym at best. Its not going to give you mass or strength gains no matter how bad you want it to.

**Cousin Eddie** · 07-07-2004, 08:13 PM

It is great for the circulatory system, can reduce LDL levels, and has been shown to increase lean mass and total strength compared to a placebo. Link to the affore mentioned study below. Also, it is very affordable, as you mentioned. I pay only $9.95 for a 250ct. bottle of 500mg caps.
http://content.nhiondemand.com/dse/c...4&absid=100054

**bigordie** · 07-08-2004, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie

It is great for the circulatory system, can reduce LDL levels, and has been shown to increase lean mass and total strength compared to a placebo. Link to the affore mentioned study below. Also, it is very affordable, as you mentioned. I pay only $9.95 for a 250ct. bottle of 500mg caps.
http://content.nhiondemand.com/dse/c...4&absid=100054

thanks, what site do you get arginine that cheap at, and do you take it twice a day@3000mg per serving?

**brian11** · 07-08-2004, 09:06 AM

everything produces results against a placebo................

Use the basics: multi, whey, creatine, glutamine

IMO

-B-

**co2boi** · 07-08-2004, 09:12 AM

Not totally sure about this, but I believe arginine is one of the amino acids you need to take alone so it doesn't have to fight for receptors. Maybe some of the other bros know more about this??

Because of the vein dialating effect it has, arginine is known as the "get hard, stay hard" amino acid

**Cousin Eddie** · 07-08-2004, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by bigordie

thanks, what site do you get arginine that cheap at, and do you take it twice a day@3000mg per serving?

www.kentnutrition.com
I use 1500-2000mg 3xpd, but you should experiment with the doses and see where you need to be.

**Cousin Eddie** · 07-08-2004, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by brian11

everything produces results against a placebo................
Use the basics: multi, whey, creatine, glutamine
IMO
-B-

I do not understand what you mean by that statement. The placebo used was Vitamin C and Calcium. Are you saying that if this combo would have been the test ingredient, that the study would have shown vitamin c and calcium to cause lean mass gains? How can you perform a controlled study on humans with no benchmark or baseline to compare the results to. Obviously the people who took the amino acid combo showed lean mass and total strength gains that were not found in the placebo (vit.c and calcium)group. You attribute this to the placebo, and not the compound being studied?

**brian11** · 07-08-2004, 10:12 AM

no im just saying that every study published says "a double blind placebo test" or whatever kind of test they use, and all the studies build up the product to "possibly" increase lean muscle mass. If you go by all the studies showing positive results then you would be taking everything on the market! Hence i said stick to the basics...

-B-

**Cousin Eddie** · 07-08-2004, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by brian11

no im just saying that every study published says "a double blind placebo test" or whatever kind of test they use, and all the studies build up the product to "possibly" increase lean muscle mass. If you go by all the studies showing positive results then you would be taking everything on the market! Hence i said stick to the basics...
-B-

I guess you are saying that you have a slight distrust for supplement companies? I dont blame you, however, not all studies are performed by guys in MuscleTech lab coats and documented in three page M&F ads.

While strength and mass gains are not one of the more celebrated features of Arginine supplementation, it's positive effect on the vascular and immune system are well documented.

Even "the basics" have studies to determine their effectiveness.

**bigordie** · 07-08-2004, 11:14 AM

thanks for that site, the glutamine is pretty cheap too

**Cousin Eddie** · 07-08-2004, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by bigordie

thanks for that site, the glutamine is pretty cheap too

No problem. The ALA and ALCAR are very cheap also. BTW, that is Glutamine Peptides, not just regular Glutamine. Good luck with the Arg.

**bigordie** · 07-08-2004, 03:18 PM

whats the difference between regular glutamine and glutamine peptides

**Cousin Eddie** · 07-08-2004, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by bigordie

whats the difference between regular glutamine and glutamine peptides

Glutamine is very important for recovery. It becomes an essential amino acid in times of trauma, including intense physical exertion. It will help to restore nitrogen balance and prevent the body from becoming catabolic. It is also essential for the mucosal lining of the gut, which benefits the immune system by assuring that bacteria does not penetrate the abdominal wall and enter the bloodstream. It is also the main building block for glutathione, the bodies most powerful antioxidant.

The problem with regular (free form) Glutamine is that it is unstable and not very bioavailable when swallowed. It is estimated that 50% to 85% of oral Glutamine is used by the intestines and liver, and only a small percentage ever makes it to muscle tissue.

The Peptide bound form of Glutamine addresses this problem, making it stable and much more bio-available. The digestive tract contains peptide transport receptors that allow peptides to be absorbed and utilized, while free form amino acids are not.

Glutamine levels can become depleted by as much as 40% following intense training.

The peptide binding is achieved through hydrolysis. If you have ever tasted a hydrolyzed protein powder, you will know where I am going with this. The Glutamine Peptides are not for those to whom taste is an important element. They do not dissolve readily with a spoon or shaker, and you pretty much have to gulp down chunks in your drink, unless you use a blender, which I do not. They do seem to dissolve better when mixed with protein powder before the liquid is added. But, with that being said, they do work like regular glutamine cannot. I believe the tradeoff is worth it, but some would disagree.

Here is a supplemental article on Glutamine Peptides
http://www.hsrmagazine.com/articles/091sport.html

**bigordie** · 07-09-2004, 01:53 PM

awsome, i have been taking regular glutamine to prevent muscle breakdown (had ACL surgery recently) but i did not know that most was broken down before it hits the muscle, thanks bro

**bigordie** · 07-09-2004, 02:13 PM

also i was wondering if you knew the best way to post workout carb load, ive read up on it a little and what im getting out of it so far is that you want to mix both high and low GI carbs. I usualy drink about 16ounces of orange juice (w/glutamine powder) then i will eat some food that is high in carbs. is that good or is there an easier way?

**brian11** · 07-09-2004, 02:24 PM

dextrose! mix it in a 2:1 ratio with your protein.

-B-

**Cousin Eddie** · 07-09-2004, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by bigordie

also i was wondering if you knew the best way to post workout carb load, ive read up on it a little and what im getting out of it so far is that you want to mix both high and low GI carbs. I usualy drink about 16ounces of orange juice (w/glutamine powder) then i will eat some food that is high in carbs. is that good or is there an easier way?

Ditto Brian's comment. Dextrose PWO.