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  1. #1
    jerseymeathead is offline Junior Member
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    6-0x0 and hair loss

    i know i asked this in a previous thread but does anyone think that having slightly increased test level will lead to more dht and more hairloss (note: im' battling hair loss right now, i have somewhat thin hair and peakes)

  2. #2
    MMC78's Avatar
    MMC78 is offline Senior Member
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    I didn't have great experiences with 6-oxo. I ran it after a cycle of mag-10 about 1.5 years ago. Side effects for me were:

    Acne, especially back acne
    Hiarloss/Shedding, regrown after several months
    Moodiness

    If you want to boost your natural test levels, then there are better products on the market. Try 2-6 grams of Tribulus and 500mg of Tongkat Ali/day.

    Don't use 6-oxo for PCT even for a prohormone cycle. Nolvadex and Clomid are tried and true methods of raising your natural test after a cycle.

  3. #3
    DBarcelo's Avatar
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    I've used OXO and I didn't have any problems at all. I didn't notice any difference either.

    To boost test levels, I would just take the Tongkat Ali, but I would go for more like 1 gram per day.

    I have to disagree with MMC78 about the Nolva and Clomid being methods of raising your natural test levels. Nolva and Clomid are estrogen blockers/inhibitors. One blocks estrogen receptors in breast tissue and the other inhibits the conversion of testosterone into estrogen. Neither one raises the level of testosterone in the body. But the Tongkat Ali actually gets your body to release more testosterone.

  4. #4
    jerseymeathead is offline Junior Member
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    thats scary as hell MMC. btw, what did you use for your hair? i'm using rogaine, saw palmetto, hair vitamins and this shampoo that supposidly blocks dht.

  5. #5
    MMC78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerseymeathead
    thats scary as hell MMC. btw, what did you use for your hair? i'm using rogaine, saw palmetto, hair vitamins and this shampoo that supposidly blocks dht.
    It really wasn't that bad. Anytime you throw your hormones out of whack, you'll have some sides.

    I would recomend only using proven hair loss treatments:
    5% Minoxidil day and night
    1mg/day of Finasteride (Propecia)
    1 or 2% Nizoral shampoo every other day
    Extra B vitamins, esp biotin.

    What kind of shampoo are you using? If it's Nioxin, it's useless.

  6. #6
    MMC78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBarcelo
    I've used OXO and I didn't have any problems at all. I didn't notice any difference either.

    To boost test levels, I would just take the Tongkat Ali, but I would go for more like 1 gram per day.

    I have to disagree with MMC78 about the Nolva and Clomid being methods of raising your natural test levels. Nolva and Clomid are estrogen blockers/inhibitors. One blocks estrogen receptors in breast tissue and the other inhibits the conversion of testosterone into estrogen. Neither one raises the level of testosterone in the body. But the Tongkat Ali actually gets your body to release more testosterone.
    Pulled from:
    Nolvadex VS Clomid

    Clomid, Nolvadex and Testosterone Stimulation
    By William Llewellyn

    ...

    Studies conducted in the late 1970's at the University of Ghent in Belgium make clear the advantages of using Nolvadex instead of Clomid for increasing testosterone levels (1). Here, researchers looked the effects of Nolvadex and Clomid on the endocrine profiles of normal men, as well as those suffering from low sperm counts (oligospermia). For our purposes, the results of these drugs on hormonally normal men are obviously the most relevant. What was found, just in the early parts of the study, was quite enlightening. Nolvadex, used for 10 days at a dosage of 20mg daily, increased serum testosterone levels to 142% of baseline, which was on par with the effect of 150mg of Clomid daily for the same duration (the testosterone increase was slightly, but not significantly, better for Clomid). We must remember though that this is the effect of three 50mg tablets of Clomid. With the price of both a 50mg Clomid and 20mg Nolvadex typically very similar, we are already seeing a cost vs. results discrepancy forming that strongly favors the Nolvadex side.



    MMC

  7. #7
    Psychotron's Avatar
    Psychotron is offline Anabolic Member
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    I think he meant that they arent directly related to test production, because like he said it is a estrogen inhibitor, basically making the estrogen useless. Where as something like trib actually works on your glands to tell your testicle to produce the test.

  8. #8
    jerseymeathead is offline Junior Member
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    actually i do use nioxin, if anything it makes my hair feel better than any other shampoo i've used. actually nizoral made my hair look dry and fragile and i had increased shedding while using it. (probably from the dry scalp). worst of all it didn't even fix my dandruff problem. oh btw, have you noticed any negative effects from propecia such as lack of gains in the gym or gyno or problems with your nuts?
    Last edited by jerseymeathead; 07-10-2004 at 10:59 AM.

  9. #9
    DBarcelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMC78
    Pulled from:
    Nolvadex VS Clomid

    Clomid, Nolvadex and Testosterone Stimulation
    By William Llewellyn

    ...

    Studies conducted in the late 1970's at the University of Ghent in Belgium make clear the advantages of using Nolvadex instead of Clomid for increasing testosterone levels (1). Here, researchers looked the effects of Nolvadex and Clomid on the endocrine profiles of normal men, as well as those suffering from low sperm counts (oligospermia). For our purposes, the results of these drugs on hormonally normal men are obviously the most relevant. What was found, just in the early parts of the study, was quite enlightening. Nolvadex, used for 10 days at a dosage of 20mg daily, increased serum testosterone levels to 142% of baseline, which was on par with the effect of 150mg of Clomid daily for the same duration (the testosterone increase was slightly, but not significantly, better for Clomid). We must remember though that this is the effect of three 50mg tablets of Clomid. With the price of both a 50mg Clomid and 20mg Nolvadex typically very similar, we are already seeing a cost vs. results discrepancy forming that strongly favors the Nolvadex side.



    MMC

    You're basis all of this on studies done in the late seventies and early eighty's. That's three decades ago.

    Like I said, one of them is an estrogen inhibitor. It stops your body from converting testosterone into estrogen. Your body tries to maintain a balance of estrogen and testosterone and your body will do anything to maintain that balance. If you add more testosterone to your body, you will react by pumping out more estrogen and by converting some of that testosterone into estrogen. If you take the drug, you will end up with a higher amount of testosterone, but not because your body is pumping out more testosterone, only because your body is not able to convert any testosterone into estrogen. The other just blocks the effects of estrogen and doesn't allow it to be absorbed, and therefore will have no effect on testosterone levels. If you take these drugs to try to increase testosterone levels, you will be putting yourself at risk because your body will react by pumping out LESS testosterone after more than likely less than a week of use.

    When using these drugs after putting an overload of synthetic testosterone in your system it is helpfull because the ratio of testosterone to estrogen is way out of whack, but if your levels are normal and you use these drugs, you will be throwing the levels out of whack, but the result will be a decreased production of testosterone despite the initial increase of free form testosterone.

  10. #10
    MMC78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBarcelo

    Like I said, one of them is an estrogen inhibitor. It stops your body from converting testosterone into estrogen.
    No you're thinking of an anti-aromatase like liqiudex/armidex. Nolva/Clomid do not prevent conversion of test->estrogen, rather they compete with your bodies own estrogen at receptor sites. They are both SERMs.

    Quote Originally Posted by DBarcelo
    Your body tries to maintain a balance of estrogen and testosterone and your body will do anything to maintain that balance. If you add more testosterone to your body, you will react by pumping out more estrogen and by converting some of that testosterone into estrogen.
    That's the thing, SERM's trick your body into thinking it has more estrogen that it actually has.

    Quote Originally Posted by DBarcelo
    If you take the drug, you will end up with a higher amount of testosterone, but not because your body is pumping out more testosterone, only because your body is not able to convert any testosterone into estrogen.
    You're thinking of an anti-aromatase again.

  11. #11
    DBarcelo's Avatar
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    I have to double check with my PDR to see. I can't say for sure right now.

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