1-Test sublingually vs. M1T

**Lozgod** · 08-02-2004, 10:14 PM

I am making sublingual 1-Testosterone at 25mg/ml. My theory is it is going to be as if not more potent than M1T at the same dosage.

Sublingual absorbtion is 95% effective and the reason 1-Test is methylated for the same reasons all other oral steroids are methylated, to survive the gut/liver. So a sublingual dose that never passes through the liver on the first pass should be as effective as M1T.

EDIT: Forgot to add, it then wont be liver toxic.

I am also running it with sublingual test suspension and sublingual boldenone (EQ) suspension.

Anyone concur or disagree with my theory?

**DBarcelo** · 08-02-2004, 10:25 PM

Another part of methylating is to ad another reaction. I don't know about M1T, but steroids are methylated with an androgen so that it ads an androgenic reaction when the liver breaks it down.

**nsa** · 08-02-2004, 10:48 PM

Adding a methyl group to a compound changes the compounds chemical characteristics and chemical behavior...

**Bryan2** · 08-02-2004, 10:57 PM

methylation decreases androgenic profile and increases anabolic profile
did you convert the boldenone from 1,4 andro into suspension?
what about the test? 4ad or real test
i doubt it will be entirely absorbed unless you keep it there for 20 mins
plus it would not keep blood levels stable enough id do it around 6 times a day and youll see awesome results

**DBarcelo** · 08-02-2004, 10:58 PM

Not just adding a methyl group, adding an androgenic methyl group. Most people don't realize that you can methylate something with an non-androgen and you won't end up with the androgenic effect.

**Lozgod** · 08-02-2004, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Bryan2

methylation decreases androgenic profile and increases anabolic profile
did you convert the boldenone from 1,4 andro into suspension?
what about the test? 4ad or real test
i doubt it will be entirely absorbed unless you keep it there for 20 mins
plus it would not keep blood levels stable enough id do it around 6 times a day and youll see awesome results

Straight hormones test base and EQ base.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=114451

**nsa** · 08-02-2004, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bryan2

methylation decreases androgenic profile and increases anabolic profile

Where did you get this information from? Im not saying its right or wrong, im just curious as to where you heard this.

**Bryan2** · 08-03-2004, 04:03 AM

most adds have them there and from talking with various manufactorors i had a convo with sledge from designer supplements about this one time.

Im not sure if it affects all substances but it does with m1t over regular 1 test

**nsa** · 08-03-2004, 09:17 AM

Well considering that manufacturers are going to tell you that it makes it less androgenic and more anabolic , thus giving you more reason to buy their product, i wouldn't trust everything i hear from a manufacturer. Listen to what the people that make 6-oxo claim about their product. Im looking for some scientific evidence of this.

**Bryan2** · 08-03-2004, 05:03 PM

ill do some diggin around

**MMC78** · 08-03-2004, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by DBarcelo

Not just adding a methyl group, adding an androgenic methyl group. Most people don't realize that you can methylate something with an non-androgen and you won't end up with the androgenic effect.

What's the difference between a "regular methyl group" and a "androgenic methyl group"? Isn't it still CH3 at the 17th position?

**Lozgod** · 08-03-2004, 09:42 PM

OK without the methylated situation, directly to the blood (injection, sublingual, etc.), 20 mg of 1-Test (non M1T) would still be be an effective dose in theory correct?

**nsa** · 08-03-2004, 10:11 PM

Yep, and you should be able to get up to a higher dosage than m1t because of the lack of hepatoxicity of sublingual 1-test.

**NewBreed** · 08-03-2004, 10:58 PM

95% is a high number,do I have to try it with my EQ base?
I *l-o-v-e* Boldenon,but I don´t like the ester on it.
It would be hard for me to feel a difference,cause I´m running D-Bol,Test,Winny and Anadrol at the moment,but I´ll give it a try.

Do you use a penetrationenhancer for better absorbtion?

**Lozgod** · 08-03-2004, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by NewBreed

95% is a high number,do I have to try it with my EQ base?
I *l-o-v-e* Boldenon,but I don´t like the ester on it.
It would be hard for me to feel a difference,cause I´m running D-Bol,Test,Winny and Anadrol at the moment,but I´ll give it a try.

Do you use a penetrationenhancer for better absorbtion?

No just the stuff that I posted in the thread. The HPBCD.

**nsa** · 08-03-2004, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by NewBreed

95% is a high number,do I have to try it with my EQ base?
I *l-o-v-e* Boldenon,but I don´t like the ester on it.
It would be hard for me to feel a difference,cause I´m running D-Bol,Test,Winny and Anadrol at the moment,but I´ll give it a try.

Do you use a penetrationenhancer for better absorbtion?

I hope your running milk thistle with all those methylated compounds...

**DBarcelo** · 08-04-2004, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by MMC78

What's the difference between a "regular methyl group" and a "androgenic methyl group"? Isn't it still CH3 at the 17th position?

The position is the same, it's just a matter of what chemical you're putting in that position. It's not the position that causes the androgenic effect. The position is what gets cougt up in the liver and gets broken down by the liver allowing the rest of the chemical structure to enter the blood. What happens as it's broken down by the liver depends on the chemical that is put in the 17th position. If it's a non-androgen, there will probably be no reaction with the exception of a light toxicity in the liver which is short lived. If the substance in the 17th position is an androgenic, then your body will experience the androgenic effects of the chemical as the body breaks it down.

**nsa** · 08-04-2004, 08:25 AM

What constitutes an androgenic methyl group? A methyl group is just CH3, how can a methyl group be androgenic?

**MMC78** · 08-04-2004, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by DBarcelo

The position is the same, it's just a matter of what chemical you're putting in that position. It's not the position that causes the androgenic effect. The position is what gets cougt up in the liver and gets broken down by the liver allowing the rest of the chemical structure to enter the blood. What happens as it's broken down by the liver depends on the chemical that is put in the 17th position. If it's a non-androgen, there will probably be no reaction with the exception of a light toxicity in the liver which is short lived. If the substance in the 17th position is an androgenic, then your body will experience the androgenic effects of the chemical as the body breaks it down.

This doesn't make any sense to me. When you methylate a compound, you do exactly that, add a methane molecule to the 17th position.

**Lozgod** · 08-04-2004, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by nsa

I hope your running milk thistle with all those methylated compounds...

I dont think Milk Thistle would even put a dent in to all that, that guy might as well wash down his orals with some Jack Daniels.

**nsa** · 08-04-2004, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by MMC78

This doesn't make any sense to me. When you methylate a compound, you do exactly that, add a methane molecule to the 17th position.

Actually methane is CH4, an alkane functional group. Methylating a compound is putting a methyl CH3, an alkyl functional group... Im glad i took organic chemistry for something.

**MMC78** · 08-04-2004, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by nsa

Actually methane is CH4, an alkane functional group. Methylating a compound is putting a methyl CH3, an alkyl functional group... Im glad i took organic chemistry for something.

Yeah I know, but CH4 is saturated.

**nsa** · 08-04-2004, 05:03 PM

Yeah, so it can't be substituted for a hydrogen in a compound, CH3 can however be substitutedsince it is not saturated.

**sinista63** · 08-04-2004, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by nsa

What constitutes an androgenic methyl group? A methyl group is just CH3, how can a methyl group be androgenic?

my exact question when i was reading through that.

**DBarcelo** · 08-04-2004, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by nsa

What constitutes an androgenic methyl group? A methyl group is just CH3, how can a methyl group be androgenic?

There are a few chemicals that are used to be placed in that particular space in order for it to pass the liver and I don't remember which ones they are off the top of my head, but they are not all androgenic . I'll look it up when I get a chance.

**DBarcelo** · 08-04-2004, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by MMC78

This doesn't make any sense to me. When you methylate a compound, you do exactly that, add a methane molecule to the 17th position.

No, it's not quite that simple. As I answered the other person. I don't remember it off the top of my head. I'll look it up when I get a chance and I'll try to find this post again.

**NewBreed** · 08-04-2004, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Lozgod

I dont think Milk Thistle would even put a dent in to all that, that guy might as well wash down his orals with some Jack Daniels.

Thanks Lozgood,that´s exactly what I did with the drol-

@ Lozgod I tied the EQ-base under my tongue right after I postet and I´ve gotten hungry as hell roughly an hour after.....you´re my sub-hero.

@nsa:i will use the 17aa not all together all the time;I just checked some of them how they work and throw the ones I don´t need out.

There is no 17 methylation which is andogenic there are ways to alter the molecule so that it becomes more androgenic ,I don´t know it exactly but it´s not necesserally the 17th,but more on the 2nd ring structure(but I maybe wrong).
Anyway they were putting on fluor,chlor which are a kind of more toxic than just an alkyl and some have an alkyl and a halogen-atom in their structure.
Tbc....

**MMC78** · 08-04-2004, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by DBarcelo

No, it's not quite that simple. As I answered the other person. I don't remember it off the top of my head. I'll look it up when I get a chance and I'll try to find this post again.

Some common steroid molecules (scroll down):
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-...chemistry2.asp

All of the oral's have a methyl group (CH3) added to the 17th position. Notice the different behaviors of dianabol and boldenone which only differ by a methy group and an esther.

**nsa** · 08-04-2004, 10:10 PM

Actually their is more of a difference between Dbol and EQ. See that R on the boldenone , that is where the undecylenate ester is attached, which changes the chemical behavior of the compound. To sum this up, neither Dbol nor EQ act the same way that boldenone would act alone without either of these functional groups attached to it...

**NewBreed** · 08-04-2004, 10:31 PM

Boldenone is simply methylated D-bol and the ester is cleaved to the o-atom as a substitution fortthe h-atomat the 17C-atom(therefor you need to inject it,´cause there´s no methyl-group on the 17C).
As soon as the hormone with the ester is in the blood-stream it´s enzymatically reduced and the ester is cut off,so that it becomes the active hormone which is not functioning while the estes is on it.

**Lozgod** · 08-04-2004, 10:32 PM

So would boldenone base effect one differently than boldenone und.?

Originally Posted by NewBreed

Boldenone is simply methylated D-bol and the ester is cleaved to the o-atom as a substitution fortthe h-atomat the 17C-atom(therefor you need to inject it,´cause there´s no methyl-group on the 17C).
As soon as the hormone with the ester is in the blood-stream it´s enzymatically reduced and the ester is cut off,so that it becomes the active hormone which is not functioning while the estes is on it.

**NewBreed** · 08-04-2004, 10:53 PM

No.It´s the same as with Testo and any other esterfied Hormone.Testo ist Testo and it dosn´t matter with what ester.It does the same thing,only the ester determines when,how much and how long.
Methyl-testo is methyl testo.the methylation stays and renders the testosterone oral active and into a different hormone than testosterone without methylation,like D-Bol vs. Boldenone .

**Lozgod** · 08-04-2004, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by NewBreed

No.It´s the same as with Testo and any other esterfied Hormone.Testo ist Testo and it dosn´t matter with what ester.It does the same thing,only the ester determines when,how much and how long.
Methyl-testo is methyl testo.the methylation stays and renders the testosterone oral active and into a different hormone than testosterone without methylation,like D-Bol vs. Boldenone.

OK thats what I thought just making sure. I never heard of methylated boldenone , are you saying thats what Dbol is?

**MMC78** · 08-04-2004, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by nsa

Actually their is more of a difference between Dbol and EQ. See that R on the boldenone, that is where the undecylenate ester is attached, which changes the chemical behavior of the compound. To sum this up, neither Dbol nor EQ act the same way that boldenone would act alone without either of these functional groups attached to it...

Ya, I mentioned that in my original post.

**MMC78** · 08-04-2004, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Lozgod

OK thats what I thought just making sure. I never heard of methylated boldenone, are you saying thats what Dbol is?

Yes, look at the pictures at the bottom:
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-...chemistry2.asp

**NewBreed** · 08-05-2004, 01:25 AM

Does it really say Dianabol doesn´t aromatize?

**DBarcelo** · 08-05-2004, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by MMC78

Some common steroid molecules (scroll down):
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-...chemistry2.asp

All of the oral's have a methyl group (CH3) added to the 17th position. Notice the different behaviors of dianabol and boldenone which only differ by a methy group and an esther.

I don't even have to look at the link. I know that orals all contain a methyl group in the 17th position and rarely you'll find one in the 1st position. I also know the difference in the behavior of the steroid, because of the androgen being added though, not just purely because of the methyl group. Even if you bind an non-androgen in the 17th position, the drug will seem a little different only because more of it makes it into the system (it would be like taking twice as much). I don't have time to read through the research that I think it's listed in, but I did find it. I'll try to look through it later on today.

**nsa** · 08-05-2004, 09:00 AM

Sorry, if i was unclear about the boldenone issue. When i said that neither dbol or EQ act the same as just boldenone, Dbol doesn't act the same at all, EQ does act the same as boldenone but it is released slower than just boldenone.

**Lozgod** · 08-05-2004, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by nsa

Sorry, if i was unclear about the boldenone issue. When i said that neither dbol or EQ act the same as just boldenone, Dbol doesn't act the same at all, EQ does act the same as boldenone but it is released slower than just boldenone.

Well that is just to be assumed anyway. I think the Boldenone - Dbol relation is inaccurate. Esters dont change the reaction of the hormone in the body, they just determine its release time. Dbol is Dbol and Bold is Bold and Test is Test, etc.