Thread: ECA Stack Faq?
08-19-2004, 12:13 AM #1
ECA Stack Faq?
Is there an ECA stack Faq on this board that I'm to blind to see?
Wondering about dosages. I found one post on dosage, but would like to make sure of everyones thoughts, not just one person.
08-19-2004, 12:38 AM #2
Here is what I am taking right now and I have dropped 11lbs in the last two weeks.
25mg ephedrine, 200mg caffeine, 325 mg aspirin 2xs daily. The recommendation is to take eca three times daily, but I would not be able to sleep if I did that. I am a little sensitive to the ephedrine and it tends to have a long lasting effect on me so twice daily is cool for me.
BTW, drink lots of water
08-19-2004, 05:14 AM #3Junior Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
I was thinking of taking it 3 times daily, but wouldent it be a too much aspirin ?
08-27-2004, 08:53 AM #4
bump Need info in here for an eventual faq.
Do most of you take:
325 mg aspirin
What does each do, and how do they compliment each other?
08-27-2004, 09:21 AM #5Originally Posted by Fat Guy
08-27-2004, 11:37 AM #6
i have never really understood the roll of asprin in the ECA stack i was wondering if someone could explain that to me...
08-27-2004, 11:41 AM #7
ECY is even more effective
08-27-2004, 11:42 AM #8Originally Posted by bigordie
The aspirin is to thin the blood to avoid blood platelets
08-27-2004, 01:30 PM #9New Member
ECY is even more effective
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
Whats ECY mean? I know the E stand for ephedrine and the C stands for caffeine, but what does the Y stand for?
08-27-2004, 01:54 PM #10King of Supplements
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- east coast
Yohimbine. Yohimbine is a fat mobilizer. Much more effective than ECA.
Last edited by nsa; 08-28-2004 at 03:13 PM.
08-27-2004, 02:39 PM #11Originally Posted by slizzut
thats what i thought, thanks bro
08-27-2004, 02:50 PM #12Originally Posted by nsa
This may be a backwards way to write a faq, but what the heck. When we've enough good data, I'll compile it and edit the first post or something like that. Maybe the ECA/ECY stack faq.
08-27-2004, 02:56 PM #13King of Supplements
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- east coast
I don't think anyone who knows about ECY continues to use ECA...
08-27-2004, 03:00 PM #14
so if you drop the asprin and add the yohimbe what about the positive health effects from the asprin...does yohimbe mimmic them.
08-27-2004, 03:02 PM #15Originally Posted by bigordie
Not necesarily, but it significantly increases fat burning.
08-27-2004, 03:05 PM #16King of Supplements
Originally Posted by bigordie
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- east coast
Last edited by nsa; 08-28-2004 at 03:13 PM.
08-27-2004, 04:05 PM #17Originally Posted by nsa
08-27-2004, 04:41 PM #18King of Supplements
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- east coast
25 mgs ephedrine
200 mgs caffeine
5 mgs Yohimbine
Last edited by nsa; 08-28-2004 at 03:14 PM.
08-27-2004, 04:51 PM #19Originally Posted by nsa
08-27-2004, 10:53 PM #20Originally Posted by userabuser
That is the dosage that you take 2-3 times a day. It wouldn't be as effective if you dropped the caffiiene but you can alter it to your liking.
08-27-2004, 11:52 PM #21Originally Posted by slizzut
I did the ECA stack in here today, One time, not 2 or 3. I'm going to try lowering the caffine and do 2 times a day. Waiting to get some Y like NSA suggested.
All of the "stimulants" affect me this way. I don't know why.
Headaches and just feel bad in general. Wish I knew why.
08-28-2004, 02:50 PM #22Originally Posted by userabuser
Its no big deal really, everyone's body responds differently.
08-28-2004, 03:14 PM #23King of Supplements
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- east coast
I edited my posts in this thread, i just realized i was putting yohimbe instead of yohimbine.
08-28-2004, 10:11 PM #24Originally Posted by nsa
09-01-2004, 06:50 AM #25
The following article is taken from the Gatorade Sports Science Institute.
THE LINK: http://www.gssiweb.com/
THE ARTICLE: Ephedrine-Containing Supplements
April, 2003 - Ellen Coleman, RD, MA, MPH
Although banned by the NFL, NCAA and International Olympic Committee, dietary supplements containing ephedrine are still consumed by athletes and the general public, often in the hopes that it will aid weight loss or provide a stimulant-induced performance edge. To find out the latest on this common dietary supplement, we asked Ellen Coleman, RD, MA, MPH, a nutrition consultant for the Los Angeles Lakers and Anaheim Angels, to research the most current findings regarding this drug.
We hope you find this information useful.
Bob Murray, PhD, FACSM
Director, Gatorade Sports Science Institute
In many competitions, the difference between winning and losing can occur in one play or the divisions of seconds. So it is not surprising that athletes may want to utilize ephedrine-containing supplements to improve their performance, have more energy or decrease their body fat. Unfortunately, athletes who use ephedrine may risk getting more than they bargained for from the drug. While it may help them run farther and faster, it can also make them prey to the myriad of negative—even potentially life-threatening—side effects. The fact is ephedrine use is controversial at best. Especially when you consider that the NFL, NCAA and International Olympic Committee have all taken steps to keep it off the playing fields. And now, the FDA is getting into the discussion.
What is Ephedrine ?
So what exactly is ephedrine? Classified as a sympathomimetic drug (a beta-1 and beta-2 adrenergic receptor agonist), it’s a central nervous system stimulant that increases serum levels of norepinephrine. The herbs ma huang, ephedra sinica and Sida cordifolia contain ephedrine, which structurally is similar to amphetamines.1
Ephedrine is an effective bronchodilator due to its stimulation of beta–2 receptors in the lungs. However, it also stimulates beta-1 receptors in the heart and causes dose-dependent increases in heart rate and blood pressure. Drugs that are more selective beta-2 agonists are generally preferred for treatment of asthma.1
Ephedrine’s Role in Athletic Performance and Weight Loss
Ephedrine’s appeal to users rests in the fact that it may do one or all of the following three things, depending on the individual:
* Improve athletic performance by stimulating the central nervous system and by increasing heart rate and contraction force via activation of the beta-1 receptors.
* Suppress appetite by increasing norepinephrine release through stimulation of adrenergic pathways in the hypothalamus.1
* Promote weight loss by increasing thermogenesis and resting energy expenditure via stimulation of the muscle beta-2 receptors to increase substrate metabolism.
Combining the drug with caffeine and aspirin (called the "ECA stack"), as some users do in the belief that it will enhance its effectiveness as a weight loss agent, may add significantly to the risk. In this context, ephedrine stimulates the release of norepinephrine, which stimulates the release of adenosine and the synthesis of prostaglandins by the activated tissue. Adenosine and prostaglandins both inhibit the effect of norepinephrine. Caffeine opposes the effect of adenosine and so increases norepinephrine release. Aspirin inhibits the synthesis of prostaglandins and so enhances the effect of norepinephrine.1
What users may not understand or take seriously when they seek the performance enhancing benefits of the supplement are the adverse effects it can produce. Ephedrine raises heat production and body temperature and may increase the athlete’s risk of developing a heat injury during exercise in warm weather. In addition to increased heat production, other effects may include dizziness, headache, gastrointestinal distress, irregular heartbeat, and heart palpitations to heart attack, stroke, seizures, psychosis and even death.
These side effects can vary among individuals and occasions and don't always depend on how much is consumed. Also, combining caffeine (from coffee, Guarana, mate, or any other source) with ephedrine-containing products (such as those mentioned earlier) greatly increases the risks.2,3
If the knowledge of these adverse effects isn’t enough to deter users, the International Olympic Committee, the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) and the National Football League (NFL) are hoping some of their recent policies banning the drug—and suspending players for doping—will be.
Still, are these organizations’ concerns about ephedrine really valid? In December of 2000, a study commissioned by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) set out to answer that question by examining the adverse cardiovascular and central nervous system events associated with dietary supplements containing ephedra alkaloids.
In the study, records from 140 ephedra users who experienced complications (heart attack, stroke, seizure and death) between 1997 and 1999 were reviewed. These users were young and healthy—and some had only been taking ephedrine for a few days. 2
The researchers found that:
* One-third of the patients’ complications were definitely or probably caused by ephedrine use.
* Another third of the problems were possibly caused by ephedrine.
* In one-fifth of the cases there was not enough information to determine the cause.
While these results illustrate the risks associated with ephedrine, the results of research illustrate its effectiveness. According to research:
* A combination of ephedrine and caffeine (0.8 to 1.0 mg of ephedrine per kg and 4 to 5 mg of caffeine per kg consumed 1˝ hours before exercise) may improve both anaerobic and high-intensity aerobic performance.4,5
* Combining ephedrine and caffeine (20 mg ephedrine and 200 mg caffeine, consumed three times per day) with a low calorie diet (1,000 calories) may also help to promote weight loss in obese individuals. 6,7
Despite its effectiveness, in June of 2002, Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson called for an extensive scientific review of ephedrine to address health concerns associated with its use. The Rand Corporation is conducting this comprehensive review of the existing science on ephedrine and the National Institutes of Health will use this information to evaluate the safety of the product.8
In October of 2002, Secretary Thompson also urged the FDA to recommend strong mandatory warning labels for ephedrine-containing products. The FDA is working on proposed regulations regarding Good Manufacturing Practices for dietary supplements. These measures do not preclude further actions as a result of the Rand Corporation’s review of ephedrine. In addition, the FDA announced a new program to analyze all herbal ephedrine products to ensure that they contain natural (not synthetic) ingredients as required by law. It is illegal for companies to market non-herbal synthetic ephedrine products as dietary supplements.9.
Although ephedrine may improve athletic performance, the risks associated with this supplement far outweigh the benefits. Supplements containing ephedrine will not enable athletes to reach their goals. Sound nutrition, hydration and training programs will.
09-01-2004, 07:17 AM #26
The following was taken from http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/Printab...5,4048,00.html
Scientific Name: Yohimbe
Other Names: Johimbi, Pausinystalia yohimbe
Who is this for?
Due to potentially severe side effects, yohimbe is not recommended for general use. Its use should be supervised by a healthcare professional.
Yohimbine is an alkaloid contained in the herbal product, yohimbe. Because yohimbine is the most active component of yohimbe, the two names are often used interchangeably. They are not the same, however. Less than 10% of yohimbe is composed of yohimbine; the rest consists of other chemicals with lesser or unknown effects. Despite a long history of use, neither yohimbe nor yohimbine has been proven in well-controlled studies to be effective for any medical condition.
Nevertheless, a prescription drug made from yohimbine has long been used in the United States to treat male erectile dysfunction (ED), which is the inability to have or maintain an erection of the penis long enough to have sexual relations. This condition may also be called sexual dysfunction or impotence. Yohimbine may be effective for ED because it appears to relax and widen blood vessels in the penis. The resulting increased blood flow may lead to an erection. At the same time, yohimbine may excite parts of the brain involved with the desire for sex. Men who have ED as a result of diabetes or as a side effect from taking antidepressants known as serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) may respond to yohimbine. Recently, however, more effective drugs with less apparent potential for side effects have been approved for prescription treatment of ED. Yohimbine may have similar stimulating effects for women, but it is not used often in women due to generally poor results and relatively frequent side effects.
Because low doses of the alkaloid yohimbine (less than about 20 mg per day) may result in mild nervous stimulation and increased breathing capability, it has been used at times as a weight-reducing agent, an exercise-enhancer, and a treatment for narcolepsy. Narcolepsy is a disorder that causes sleepiness and uncontrollable attacks of sleeping during the daytime. Yohimbine may cause central nervous system stimulation, which could improve all three conditions. No scientific evidence proves that either yohimbine or yohimbe is effective for any of them, however, even though yohimbine continues to be included frequently in non-prescription herbal combination products promoted for athletes and individuals who want to lose weight.
In higher doses (approximately 50 mg or more per day), yohimbine appears to block both an enzyme called monoamine oxidase (MAO) and also neurotransmitters ? particularly dopamine and serotonin, which are all thought to play a role in maintaining emotional status. Neurotransmitters are chemicals that carry messages from nerve cells to other cells. Low levels of MAO usually help to relieve depression, while low levels of dopamine and serotonin may contribute to increased feelings of depression. These conflicting effects may worsen depression or interfere with other treatments for it. Yohimbine may have a role, however, in relieving the side effect of ED that may be associated with taking SSRIs. Some evidence from a recent study suggests that yohimbine may also cause SSRIs to reach their full effectiveness sooner than the several weeks they ordinarily need. Higher doses of yohimbine may also reduce blood pressure by blocking alpha receptors. Yohimbe used to be taken to control blood pressure, but newer drugs with more predictable results and fewer side effects have replaced it for this use.
When should I be careful taking it?
Yohimbine may affect the way that the body eliminates water, which may worsen kidney conditions. Therefore, individuals with kidney diseases should avoid taking yohimbe and products made from it.
Men who have benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) should also avoid yohimbe and yohimbine due to the possibility that they may promote prostate enlargement and worsen the symptoms of BPH.
Yohimbe and yohimbine may affect the balance of neurotransmitters involved in maintaining emotional status. Therefore, individuals who have or who have had anxiety, depression, or mental illnesses should not take yohimbine.
Although yohimbe and yohimbine are not generally used by women, they may cause the uterus to relax, if taken by a female. Taking it while pregnant may result in a miscarriage. In addition, chemicals in yohimbe are suspected of causing damage to a developing fetus.
Therefore, pregnant women should avoid yohimbe and yohimbine. Yohimbe and yohimbine may affect children more than adults. Since very small amounts of yohimbe have been known to cause anxiety-like responses in children, it is recommended that children avoid the use of yohimbe or yohimbine.
While small doses (up to about 20 mg per day) of yohimbine may increase blood pressure, larger doses (30 mg or more per day) may cause blood pressure to decrease. These effects differ widely from individual to individual. Therefore, individuals with high or low blood pressure should avoid taking yohimbe and yohimbine.
Whether chemicals in yohimbe enter breast milk is not known. Due to yohimbine?s possible anxiety-inducing effect on infants, however, women who are breast-feeding should not use yohimbe or its derivatives.
What side effects should I watch for?
Major Side Effects
Doses of yohimbine over about 40 mg per day may overly stimulate the central nervous system resulting in headache, insomnia, restlessness, or other symptoms. Rarely, death has been attributed to overdoses of yohimbe. Also reported have been:
* Changes in heart rhythm
* Difficult breathing
* Potentially dangerous drops in blood pressure
* Temporary muscle paralysis in the legs and feet
One reported case of priapism, a painful sustained erection, is believed to have been caused by taking yohimbine.
Yohimbe and yohimbine may have an effect on neurotransmitters involved in maintaining emotional balance. General anxiety, manic episodes, psychoses, and other mental conditions reportedly have been triggered or worsened by taking yohimbe or yohimbine.
Inhaling or smoking powdered yohimbe bark has been reported to produce hallucinations.
Less Severe Side Effects
Low doses of yohimbine (under 20 mg per day) have resulted in:
* Abdominal pain
* Elevated blood pressure
* Elevated heart rate
* General weakness
* Increased urine production
What interactions should I watch for?
Due to its effects on blood pressure, yohimbe and yohimbine are believed to interfere with the effects of drugs that lower blood pressure. Some blood pressure-lowering drugs are:
* ACE inhibitors such as captopril, enalapril, lisinopril, and Monopril
* Beta blockers such as atenolol, metoprolol, and propranolol
* Calcium channel blockers such as nifedipine, Norvasc, and verapamil
* Diuretics such as Dyazide, furosemide, and hydrochlorothiazide
The risk of changes in blood pressure increases if yohimbe or yohimbine is taken at the same time as a tricyclic antidepressant such as amitriptyline, amoxapine, doxepin or nortriptyline.
Yohimbine may stimulate parts of the nervous system. If yohimbe or yohimbine is taken with prescription or drugs that also cause nervous system stimulation, the risk of side effects such as anxiety, dizziness, fast heart beat, headache, insomnia, nausea, and restlessness may increase. A rapid, potentially dangerous spike in blood pressure known as a hypertensive crisis is also possible. Prescription drugs that may interact with yohimbe or yohimbine include:
* Alpha blockers such as doxazosin and terazosin
* Asthma drugs such as albuterol and metaproterenol
* clonidine (Catapres)
* guanabenz (Wytensin)
Yohimbe and yohimbine are believed to affect levels of neurotransmitters, chemicals that carry messages from nerve cells to other cells. Antipsychotic drugs used to treat mental disorders such as schizophrenia also alter the levels of neurotransmitters. If yohimbe or yohimbine and antipsychotic drugs are taken at the same time, the effectiveness of the drug may be changed, so it is best to avoid using yohimbe or yohimbine while taking drugs such as:
* chlorpromazine (Thorazine)
* fluphenazine (Prolixin)
* olanzapine (Zyprexa)
* prochlorperazine (Compazine)
* quetiapine (Seroquel)
* risperidone (Risperdal)
Non-prescription cough and cold remedies often contain pseudoephedrine (PSE) or phenylepherine, drugs which may increase the risk of side effects such as anxiety, dizziness, fast heart beat, headache, insomnia, nausea, and restlessness when they are taken with yohimbe or yohimbine.
Yohimbe or yohimbine and certain other herbal products such as ephedra, guarana, and mate may cause blood pressure to rise. Ephedra is now banned from sale in the United States. It should not be taken for any reason. However, if ephedra or another of these blood-pressure raising herbals are taken at the same time as yohimbe or yohimbine, a sharp increase in blood pressure known as a hypertensive crisis may result. Symptoms of a hypertensive crisis may include confusion, difficulty breathing, intense headache, or numb or tingling fingers or toes.
Caffeine increases the central nervous system stimulation effect of yohimbe and yohimbine. The combination may cause excessive nervousness and irritability, along with other signs of over-stimulation. In addition, the risk of a hypertensive crisis increases when caffeine and yohimbe are taken together. Caffeinated beverages such as coffee, soft drinks, and tea should not be consumed when taking yohimbe or yohimbine.
Yohimbe and yohimbine may enhance the effects of alcohol, leading to a feeling of intoxication with only a small amount of alcohol ingestion.
Drugs that block the enzyme monoamine oxidase (MAO) may interact seriously with tyramine, a chemical in that helps maintain blood pressure levels in the body. Tyramine is found in many beverages and foods including beer, red wine, aged or smoked meats, certain cheeses, sauerkraut, and yeast. Since yohimbine is a mild MAO inhibitor, a dangerous rise in blood pressure may result if it is taken with any food or drink containing tyramines.
Some interactions between herbal products and medications can be more severe than others. The best way for you to avoid harmful interactions is to tell your doctor and/or pharmacist what medications you are currently taking, including any over-the-counter products, vitamins, and herbals. For specific information on how yohimbe and yohimbine interact with drugs, other herbals, and foods and the severity of those interactions, please use our Drug Interactions Checker to check for possible interactions.
Should I take it?
Yohimbe is the bark of an evergreen tree that grows wild along the coasts of west-central Africa. Because it is thick and soft, it is relatively easy to remove from the tree trunk and branches. While yohimbe bark may be harvested anytime during the year, its alkaloid content is highest during the rainy, winter season which is between May and September in the Southern Hemisphere. While stripping off the bark does not usually kill the trees, it gives boring insects the chance to burrow into the yohimbe trees. Eventually the effects of these insect will kill an affected tree. New trees grow relatively quickly, however, and they may start from the stumps of dead ones. Yohimbe trees also produce numerous seeds that look similar to those of maple trees.
Residents of the area have long used yohimbe for numerous medical purposes ranging from heart conditions to sleepiness. It has been smoked to produce hallucinations for recreational or religious reasons and it has been used to improve endurance for hunting. It is best known, however, as an aphrodisiac, a substance believed to increase sexual desire and performance.
Dosage and Administration
Herbal yohimbe or yohimbine is not recommended for use without the supervision of a health professional.
In clinical studies, a commonly used dose to treat ED was 6 mg of yohimbine taken three times a day. None of the studies lasted longer than 10 weeks, and the safety of yohimbine taken longer than 10 weeks is not known.
Recommended doses for other conditions vary greatly. If you plan to take yohimbe or yohimbine, seek the advice of a healthcare professional before starting to take it.
Yohimbine, an alkaloid in yohimbe, has been used as a treatment for erectile dysfunction. Newer prescription drugs may offer better results with less chance of side effects, however.
Yohimbe and yohimbine may cause miscarriage or birth defects if taken by a pregnant woman. Because they may produce anxiety disorders in children, yohimbe and yohimbine should also be avoided by children and breast-feeding women. Individuals with benign prostate hyperplasia, high blood pressure, or kidney diseases should not take products made from yohimbe, which may worsen these conditions. Taking yohimbe or yohimbine may also trigger or aggravate mental conditions such as depression or schizophrenia.
Very large doses of yohimbine may result in possibly dangerous changes in blood pressure, breathing, or heart rate. Yohimbe and yohimbine have also been associated with diarrhea, headache, insomnia, nausea, restlessness, sweating, and a number of other side effects.
Yohimbe and its derivatives may interfere with the effects of drugs to treat high blood pressure, depression, schizophrenia, and several other conditions. Taking yohimbe or yohimbine may increase the risk of side effects from drugs such as tricyclic antidepressants and pseudoephedrine; herbals such as guarana and mate; and foods such as caffeine. When a yohimbe product is taken at the same time as alcohol, intoxication may occur more rapidly. Foods and drinks containing an amino acid known as tyramine may raise blood pressure when they are consumed while yohimbe or yohimbine is being taken.
Last Revised June 1, 2004
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