m1t/4derm pct w/clen?

**bradd5150** · 09-02-2004, 08:56 PM

Ok, I've been doing my research and Im getting my sh*t together for a first cycle. I'm going to do nsa's recommended first cycle of m1t and 4 derm. I'm going to follow his pct to a "t" but Im not sure whether I should use clen . Do you all feel it is absolutely necessary to keep your gains or would clomid/nolva with creatine do the trick? The reason I ask is that i have what the doc calls "extra" heart beats. It is nothing to worry about per the doc, but he says too much caffeine can aggrevate the problem. I'm also going to supplement with milk thistle and hawthorne berry extract. I'm 33 5'9" 180lbs b/f? 15% maybe. Back to training for 2 years now after a decade off. Thanks and I've learned more here than I ever thought I could.

**Psychotron** · 09-02-2004, 09:07 PM

if you want your testicles to come back, then yes youll need the clomid.

**bradd5150** · 09-02-2004, 10:03 PM

yes, im definately running the clomid/nolva and creatine, my question was about clen . do I absolutely have to use it to keep my gains?

**Psychotron** · 09-03-2004, 06:24 AM

oh, no you dont need the clen .

**co2boi** · 09-03-2004, 06:27 AM

No, you don't need the clen , but it always helps me. In fact, Clen makes me stronger. Plus you can continue to eat more. I would be careful if you have a "sensitive" heart. It has made mine palpatate at higher dosages

**bradd5150** · 09-03-2004, 07:36 AM

Thanks for the quick replys. I'm going to use the clomid and nolva and skip the clen for my first cycle pct. I'll see how my body reacts to everything else before I throw some clen in the mix.

**gio86** · 09-03-2004, 12:15 PM

the only reason why clen is important is because its a very strong anti-catabolic. which is good after a cycle since your natural levels of test are down. it will also help burn that extra fat. but its not a must so you can just do clomid and nolva. keep eating alot and have glutamine in had (most whey products already have it) this is also an anti-catabolic so it real good.
good luck bro

**Marc Angelo** · 09-03-2004, 01:19 PM

Have you tried other supplements or prohormones? I would do other stuff before the m1t. Some supplements have BIG LETTER WArnings about heart conditions and you may want to monitor your blood pressure constantly. There are some ph that may not have as many side effects and maybe safer at this time. I would also go to the doctor and do several (or as many) tests as possible to create a health baseline so that later you can compare the results and be proactive about your health. Your doctor may be sayiong that the extra palpiations are not an issue because he does not know that you are thinking about using ph or pro steroids . Compare the ingredients of those bottles and ask the doctor what does he think about them? Tell him that your brother, or maybe a friend of yours told you about them and you want to know, you don;t have to tell him that you are going to use them.

Anyway, take care of your heart you only have one, and it may not be worth the extra lean muscles.

**Soldier of Misfortune** · 09-03-2004, 02:02 PM

Just tell your doc you are or are going to use them. Theres confidentiality laws that prohibit docs from disclosing any medical info, even to cops. Unless you kill some one or something. You will get a better diagnosis if you tell him exactly what you are planning on using. Many bros on here have thier docs do blood work and all that stuff and thier docs know theyre on AS. If you say my friend wanted to know... or I heard about this... hes gonna know youre asking for yourself.

**bradd5150** · 09-03-2004, 07:10 PM

Yes, I'm going to have bloodwork done before i start so that i have a baseline. Thanks for all the input, and I agree that you might as well be honest with your doc, it is in your best interest and I will be monitoring my blood pressure. I won't have all my ancillaries for another few weeks so I won't start this cycle probably until october. Thanks again. I'll try and post some results, impressive or otherwise.

**Marc Angelo** · 09-04-2004, 01:20 AM

I know about the confidentiality stuff, but I worked for several insurance companies. There is something called the MIV, which is a medical record that is established as you solicite Insurance. You have to sign or WAIVE your confidential rights in order to get the insurance otherwise you get rjected. Say you are buying a house and you want a mortgage insurance, bla bla bla, or you change jobs and you get a new insurance and you have a "pre-existing condition" and the new insurance wants to check you medical records in order to evaluate your pre-existant condition" then your Doctor has to release the info about you since you are waiving your rights...oh well this is a different subject and who care most of us do not qualify for those insurance anyway..sorry I may be paranoid...