M1-T/1-AD first time user

**nathanlgd** · 04-16-2005, 11:13 AM

Hi everyone,
I'm new here, heres a little bit about my-self:-
I started training at 21 years old with average body fat, 5' 10'' tall and 175lb. Now around 8 months on at 22 years old I'm 183lb and have slightly less body fat but still around average. I have been training 4 times a week and eating more and better to aid my training. I've also been taking protein shakes twice daily as well as being on and off with amino acid capsules and creatine.
I'm currently at the end of a week off after 2 months at 4 times a week training. When I start back this time I was wanting to start with something to help my gains. I have been researching steroids for the past week and I'm slowly starting to learn a little. I put a thread on the steroid board yesterday and after a few posts from experienced users it seems that steroids are not for me - at least not for along time.
So, this left me looking for other ways to help my gains in the supplement department. I've just been reading about M1-T and 1-AD. These sound like they'll give me good gains and I'd like to try a cycle.
I have a friend who can get "most" things

if you know what I mean, hes a good trust worthy guy so I was going to place the order with him once i had finalised it with you guys. I will also put the cycle to my friend to see what he thinks as he is very experienced and clued up with the whole scene.
I was going to increase my carb and protein intake and from what I can gather from previous threads I was going to take:-
10mg of creatine spread 3 times daily, 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off.
10mg of M1-T or 500mg of 1-AD daily, 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off. (I was hoping that someone could tell me which of these would be best)
400mg of 4-AD daily, again, 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off.
I made this cycle by judging on what I had read on other posts so I was hoping that some of you could correct me or advise me if I have miss read anything.
Also, would I need to take anything before I started this cycle? I know it would be advisable to take some things inbetween cycles to help side effects etc - I would like suggestions on this please.
Big appreciation to anyone who could take a few minutes out to help me tune my first cycle before I buy. I'm looking to make good gains but I'd like to keep things on the safe side rather than going all out for maximum gains.
I look forward to your replys.
Thanks alot guys

**swoll4589** · 04-16-2005, 01:22 PM

take 10mg of M1T or 500mg of 1ad for 4 weeks with 400mg of 4ad.

You only need 10g of creatine a day

You need to research PCT. M1T will fuk you up if you dont do PCT with it. You will lose all your gains. Not be able to eat. Not be able to have sex. So you really need to do PCT with it.

**nathanlgd** · 04-16-2005, 06:44 PM

Thanks for the info

Could you please explain what PCT is? and what it envolves, I've seen it mentioned many times but I haven't seen an explanation.
Cheers

**DevilsDeity** · 04-16-2005, 07:16 PM

read this for you m1t and pct questions
M1t FAQ

i was shut down hard on 1-ad it also requires pct IMO.

and for creatien 5g aday is plenty, if its cee 3g will work.

**swoll4589** · 04-16-2005, 10:55 PM

Yeah 1AD should require PCT especially if your going above 300mg. You can get away without doing PCT at 300mg. Like it wont kill your sex drive or it didnt mine but you will prolly lose 90% of your muscle gains and 60% of your strength gains without PCT. So if you want to keep your gains do PCT.

**nathanlgd** · 04-17-2005, 03:11 AM

hm, getting a little confused here, I'm reading things that are slightly different to what people are saying.
Which is prefered, 1-AD or M1-T, which is safer and which gives the best results. I'll read through the M1-T guide again, see if I can pick up anymore info.
I'd be interested in hereing from anyone who has done a 1-AD or M1-T cycle, what were the gains like etc.
Cheers

**RedKnight** · 04-17-2005, 09:30 AM

1-AD is definitely safter as it is not a methylated compound as M1T is. However, you could expect to see more gains with M1T. The first M1T cycle I did gave me about 15 pounds, of which I have kept 12. And yes, you will need to do PCT preferably with Clomid and Nolvadex . If you do not do PCT, you can expect to lose the majority of your gains as your test levels will take a long time to regenerate naturally. They need to be brought back up ASAP after your cycle is done in order to keep your gains. Good Luck.

**swoll4589** · 04-17-2005, 11:10 AM

On average i gain about the same amount of weight on 1AD and M1T......BUT..... I gain more lean muscle on M1T. I usually put on about 15 lbs with both but with 1ad more of it is fat than with M1T. I usually dont put on any fat with M1T but usually put some fat on with 1AD. I like 1ad however because there is less sides and it doesnt shut you down as hard....but again.... it wont raise your strength as much and you put on a little more fat with it IMO.

and ill say it again.... you really need PCT especially with M1T

**nathanlgd** · 04-17-2005, 11:35 AM

Thanks for the replys!
I'm starting back at the gym tomorrow after having half a week off following 2 months at 4 days a week. I'm obviously not going to be able to all the things I need to do a cycle this time around but I'm very interested for next time.
It sounds like I might prefer the 1-AD then over M1-T. So could someone give me an example of a steady/light cycle of 1-AD with 4-AD please along with a brief explanation of PCT and what I should do for PCT with the intended cycle.
Thanks again guys

**swoll4589** · 04-17-2005, 06:27 PM

Weeks 1-4
400mg 1AD every day
400mg Transdermal 4AD everyday

Week 5-6
40mg Novladex ED
100mg clomid ED

Week 7-8
20mg Novladex ED
50mg Clomid ED

Weeks 5-8 Optional
5g Tribulus ED

Can substitute 10mg of M1T for the 1ad

there you go its all layed out for you
eat right (look in the diet forum for bulking diet) and you could eaisly put on 15 lbs from this cycle

**nathanlgd** · 04-18-2005, 01:20 AM

Nice one, thanks very much.

**DevilsDeity** · 04-18-2005, 05:57 AM

the 1-ad you can do 5-6 weeks

**nathanlgd** · 04-18-2005, 10:23 AM

Ah, one thing I thought of today - these being orals, are there any risks to the liver as with regular oral steroids ?

**DevilsDeity** · 04-18-2005, 10:27 AM

m1t is harsher on the liver hence the milk thisel.

**nathanlgd** · 04-18-2005, 01:14 PM

Cheers,
So none of that other stuff on the 1-AD/M1-T is needed other than the novladex and clomid on a 1-AD cylce?
Thanks again lads, you've been a great help.

**DevilsDeity** · 04-18-2005, 01:22 PM

the 4ad would be highly advisable.

**swoll4589** · 04-18-2005, 04:30 PM

yeah the 4ad to help your gains a little and combat lethargy. I dont get lethargic at all on 300mg of 1ad but some are more prone than others. Im going 500mg my next round of it and i will be including 4ad. 1ad isnt real hard on the liver, I still wouldnt drink while on it however. I think that pretty much covers it. And Again you could add some tribulus during PCT if you have trouble with your sex drive.

**nathanlgd** · 04-19-2005, 06:06 PM

Sorry - I didn't mention 4-AD but I was intending on using that already.
Just one last thing, if I was to use 300mg of 1-AD would I still use 400mg of 4-AD?
Thanks - you've been massively helpful. I'm gunna start buying the things I need now ready to start in 2 months time.
Wish me luck

**DevilsDeity** · 04-19-2005, 06:11 PM

what is your current weight in lbs

**swoll4589** · 04-19-2005, 08:36 PM

IMO i would still use 400mg. IMO 4ad is not exceptional for gaining size, it does help but most of your gains will come from the 1-test product. I mainly use 4ad to counter the sides of the 1-test. Dont get me wrong it does help in mass gains but you need higher doses to get huge gains from 4ad alone.

But getting to your question. IMO 400mg should be what you use. There is probley no difference in sides between 300-400mg.

**nathanlgd** · 04-20-2005, 11:27 AM

Right, thanks for clearing that up

Devil - I'm around 183lb give or take a lb. Thats UK weight though, someone told me that weights may differ from US to UK - I'm not sure my-self.
13 stone 1 or 183lb, at 5' 10'. _ I've just had a quick search and I think UK and US are the same for lb.'

**nathanlgd** · 04-20-2005, 11:58 AM

I've just spent about 10-15 minutes looking through past 1-AD related posts and I've scared my-self a little. I've read a number of posts where people using 1-AD have deleloped gyno from the first cycle whilst also doing PCT.
Any thoughts on this?

**DevilsDeity** · 04-20-2005, 12:23 PM

ok 183lbs you could get away with running 4-500mg of 1ad

when i ran it i was about 200lbs and ran 600mg ed.

yes i did get some itchy nipples running that high dose with 400-600mg 4ad . but now when i run it i run 20mg of nolva ed during the cycle and dont have any problems with gyno .

**DevilsDeity** · 04-20-2005, 12:29 PM

oops

**DevilsDeity** · 04-20-2005, 12:55 PM

you can adjust this how you see fit

weeks 1-5 500mg 1-ad
weeks 1-5 400-600mg 4/ad
weeks 1-5 20mg nolva ed

weeks 6-9
: 40 mg ED of Nolvadex for the first two weeks, Then down to 20 mg ED of Nolvadex
Weeks 6-9: Clomid Therapy, 300 mg of clomid first day, 100 mg of clomid next 10 days, 50 mg of clomid for final 10 days of clomid therapy. ---nsa m1t faq

**nathanlgd** · 04-20-2005, 03:53 PM

Ok thanks, I'm still a little unsettled by the potential gyno - when I first read that this cycle didn't produce estrogen I thought it would be fine but after reading the posts I mentioned above I'm not so sure. I think I read that the bosy creates more estrogen to try and ballance the high test and this is what causes the gyno.
I'll have to think about this one. The potential gains sound great - almost steroid like but it being the first time I've ever done anything like this, I'm very concious of the sides

**swoll4589** · 04-20-2005, 05:21 PM

if its pure 1ad then it wont convert to esterogen. 1-ad isnt made to convert to esterogen. Its the 4ad that converts to test then converts to estrogen. Its somewhat hard but not impossible to devlop gyno on 4ad because it has to convert to test not esterogen.

You have several options if your still worried.

Run 1ad alone ( it may kill your sex drive during the cycle and untill natural test levels are restored in PCT, and it also may kill your energy levels)

You could run the sample cycle layed out for you just add 20mg novla throughout cycle.

You could run the sample cycle layed out and run 1.25mg Letro EOD ( theres pretty much 0 chance of getting gyno doing this, however letro has been known to possibly limit gains, kill sex drive and dry you up meaning no water retention- bothers somes joints)

IMO just run the cycle layed out and run 20mg novla throughout if your worried about gyno.

**nathanlgd** · 04-21-2005, 10:17 AM

Thanks

When it comes to starting the cycle I think I'll run the nolva through out just to be 100%
So if I weigh 183lb now at 5' 10'' and 22 years old, (I dont mind, any gain is good) what sort of gains would I see on 400mg of 1-AD and 400mg of 4-AD over 4 weeks? would it be just moderate or would I really notice the difference in muscle mass?

**swoll4589** · 04-21-2005, 07:47 PM

Well it depend on what you call moderate. It also depend on how you eat. You can put on 20lbs pretty easy if you eat everything in sight but alot of it will be fat which you dont want. If you put on 10lbs of muscle mass thats a considerable difference. Thats prolly like an inch to an inch and a half on your arms. Check out the diet section for a clean bulking diet. Also keep in mind you will lose some weight after the cycle, but this is water weight because the 1ad and 4ad cause you to retain water. If you eat right and have proper PCT however there is no reason why you shouldnt be able to put on a solid 10 lbs of lean body mass. Believe me you would notice a difference in 10 pounds of muscle. Make sure you post your results.

**nathanlgd** · 04-23-2005, 07:19 AM

Yeah!

10lbs of muscle would be awsome!

I'd be very, very pleased if that was my result.
I'll be sure to post my results when I do the cycle in around 2-3 months time.
Big thanks again for the help, much appreciated.

**nathanlgd** · 04-24-2005, 06:36 AM

I've just been reading a little about 6 OXO, it sounds like its massivley positive at stopping estrogen levels from rising. Would this be any good to me using the intended cycle? Would nolva and clomid be enough or would 6 OXO be a good substitute for one of these?
Cheers

**swoll4589** · 04-24-2005, 08:12 AM

No, 6 0XO is not sufficient for PCT. Its not near good enough to keep estrogen levels from rising. Trust me you need novla and clomid. 6 oxo is OTC, and novla and clomid are scripts ( unless bought for research purposes, that means there for you "lab rats". Also keep in mind these are the laws in the US, in the UK its probley not a script med so you can buy tablets)

That being said comparing 60X0 and novla is like comparing a St. Johns Asprin with Oxycotin.

**nathanlgd** · 04-25-2005, 10:44 AM

Found this website:-
http://www.uk-supplements.com/pg-ind...s-cP-1_18.html
Its a UK website (obviously), seems its maybe not ilegal over here yet?
Will all those 1-AD products be the same?
Considering doing a 300/400mg cycle without 4-AD just to eliminate the gyno aspect - also no need for the nolva throughout cycle.
Just toying with the idea but what would be needed to take along side 1-AD alone? (i.e. to bring the sex drive back to normal etc and to maybe try over come the lathargy with out 4-AD?)
Cheers

**nathanlgd** · 04-25-2005, 03:52 PM

bump til tomorrow

**nathanlgd** · 04-26-2005, 12:58 AM

hm, anyone?

**nathanlgd** · 04-27-2005, 01:04 AM

Swoll? Devil?

**DevilsDeity** · 04-27-2005, 04:54 AM

i stand by this
weeks 1-5 500mg+ 1-ad
weeks 1-5 400-600mg 4/ad
weeks 1-5 20mg nolva ed

**nathanlgd** · 04-27-2005, 01:25 PM

Sorry, I was asking about how the cycle and PCT would alter without the 4-AD

**DevilsDeity** · 04-27-2005, 02:05 PM

1-ad made me very tired
and killed my sex drive even with 4-ad so i cant imagine how it would have been with out it.

im scared to death of gyno so even w/ out 4-ad i would still run 10-20mg of nolva during cycle .

pct would still stay the same .

**swoll4589** · 04-27-2005, 08:39 PM

I know that 4ad converts to test so it should cause more test related side effects and all such as agression and acne. BUT i get bad acne if i run a 1-test proudcut ( esepcially M1T) w/o 4ad. I would keep the 4ad. 98% sure you prolly wont get gyno with the novla, if your still worried add letro.The reason its a little overhyped is because the 4ad has to convert to test before it converts to estrogen and it doesnt have a good convertion rate to test anyways. That being said i did get a little gyno I think from my last m1t/4ad cycle. I think it was mainly from the low test levels because of the m1t however because I wasnt running a large dose of 4ad.