which CEE brand to get??

[pimp]

Over the past three months I have been using TRAC creatine... but now I want to try CEE, I dont have a capping machine so was wondering which product I should purchase in a pill form?

* Cre 2 + Nitrovex CEE Hydrochloride By: Thermolife

* Cr2 + CEE Hydrochloride By: ALRI

[pimp]

Bump>>>>

[boardhead]

i like the Ester Sized by Engineered Sports Tech.

[fritz2435]

Trueprotein CEE works for me.

[Suareezay2]

I recommend TrueProtein.com's CEE as well.

Its $6.99 per 100g, which in the long run, a few hundred g's plus a capping machine will be cheaper and last longer than any pre capped product. And comming from TP you will know without a doubt its top notch. Thats the way i do it, cap a few hundred pills and your good to go for a while. It only takes about half an hour and you save a lot of money

If you die hard set on pre capped stuff, go with Thermolife.

[macrophage69alpha]

I recommend TrueProtein.com's CEE as well.

Its $6.99 per 100g, which in the long run, a few hundred g's plus a capping machine will be cheaper and last longer than any pre capped product. And comming from TP you will know without a doubt its top notch. Thats the way i do it, cap a few hundred pills and your good to go for a while. It only takes about half an hour and you save a lot of money

actually this is innaccurate. CEE is extremely hygroscopic and once you open your powder and expose it to moisture, it will begin to slowly degrade, actually its probably degrading from the moment that it put in the container its sold in, which is (just a guess here ) NOT vaccuum or even foil sealed. with capsules, processed in a low humidity environment (which any quality manufacturer will use) as long as there is dessicant and the bottle is foil sealed they will keep very well and a lot longer. considering that you appear work for true protien,you really should know this.

if you count the cost of caps, the capping machine and time (unless your unmployed or enjoy repetive tasks) its actually a very bad deal. Many powders are.

[Suareezay2]

actually this is innaccurate. CEE is extremely hygroscopic and once you open your powder and expose it to moisture, it will begin to slowly degrade, actually its probably degrading from the moment that it put in the container its sold in, which is (just a guess here ) NOT vaccuum or even foil sealed. with capsules, processed in a low humidity environment (which any quality manufacturer will use) as long as there is dessicant and the bottle is foil sealed they will keep very well and a lot longer. considering that you appear work for true protien,you really should know this.

if you count the cost of caps, the capping machine and time (unless your unmployed or enjoy repetive tasks) its actually a very bad deal. Many powders are.

No, dont work for TrueProtein, just follow Dantes training methods and have become a loyal TP customer.

As for the CEE degrading issue...i dont know, you could be right, ive never heard anything about it degrading before. Ill have to do some research. I would imagine though that once you open the foil lid, the caps not being airtight, wouldnt stay any longer than bulk powder (assuming it degrades in the first place).

It seems like anybody who works out and eats 7 times a day obviously has a few extra minutes throughout the day to cap a few pills. If you wanted to, you could cap while eat...multitask

[bigordie]

if you count the cost of caps, the capping machine and time (unless your unmployed or enjoy repetive tasks) its actually a very bad deal. Many powders are.

i also have to disagree with this part, you have to disperse the total cost of the machine equally over every batch of powder you will ever cap with it-making it almost nothing. and though it is repetative and boring at least you know exactly what you are putting in your body.

[macrophage69alpha]

i also have to disagree with this part, you have to disperse the total cost of the machine equally over every batch of powder you will ever cap with it-making it almost nothing. and though it is repetative and boring at least you know exactly what you are putting in your body.

not exactly, since most- if not all- companies that sell bulk powders never test their material. this became readily apparent to the consumer with the widespread bulk powder CEE debacle. So not only do you not really know, neither do they.

in their defense a couple of these companies have now tested their CEE. at least one batch.

materials like CEE that are hygroscopic need to be vacuum sealed, and processed in a dehumidified environment. if they are repackaged as bulk powder that powder needs to be vaccuum sealed or at the VERY LEAST sealed in air tight container with a dessicant.

[bigordie]

i am aware that companies cut corners in processing/shipping in order to pinch pennies-but the same is to be held with precapped goods. I understand that the shipping aspect of these is usualy better due to the fact that MOST of the time they are at least foil sealed- but that does not change the processing of these goods or the quality of the powders that they are using.

[Suareezay2]

not exactly, since most- if not all- companies that sell bulk powders never test their material. this became readily apparent to the consumer with the widespread bulk powder CEE debacle. So not only do you not really know, neither do they.

in their defense a couple of these companies have now tested their CEE. at least one batch.

materials like CEE that are hygroscopic need to be vacuum sealed, and processed in a dehumidified environment. if they are repackaged as bulk powder that powder needs to be vaccuum sealed or at the VERY LEAST sealed in air tight container with a dessicant.

Well its no secret that I use TP products, and they are in the process of redoing their site, which will include COA's for every product. They test their stuff.

And the BB.com and AvantLabs "CEE debacle" that your talking about is nothing more than Llewellyn looking like an ass.

[macrophage69alpha]

Well its no secret that I use TP products, and they are in the process of redoing their site, which will include COA's for every product. They test their stuff.

And the BB.com and AvantLabs "CEE debacle" that your talking about is nothing more than Llewellyn looking like an ass.

they along with all the other powder sellers DID NOT test their CEE. And most of the powder sellers have sold substandard material. you are very wrong about the CEE issue. Bill llewellyn may have handled things poorly but that does not change the fact that many suppliers were selling material that was 30% CEE or not CEE at all.

unless you actually know what you are talking about you should keep your uninformed opinions to yourself. and if you actually beleive that TP has been testing their raw materials and not just accepting the COA's from the manufacturer then you are deluded. Now with respect to their proteins, as they are manufactured in the US, with perhaps some of the caseins and other specialties from europe, then the manufacturer COA's are generally trustworthy.

just so that you are informed- having actually tested materials from the suppliers- 5 of 6 of the major chemical houses offering CEE that were tested FAILED. with only 2 of those even selling actual CEE, though with varying percentages by batch 25-90%.

[SensP]

So, what's the best brand of capped CEE out there relative to both quality and cost, and where can I find it?

[pimp]

Yeah.....is CEX made by VPX a good brand to get....?

[macrophage69alpha]

unless its vaccum sealed, then really cant reccomend any powders.

as far as caps.
Scotts Finest PureCEE- tested the caps and original raw material
Thermolife- about 90% sure they use the same raw material supplier-
VPX- also same supplier- though they dont have caps- so cant reccomend.

as a note with respect to TP- they have a high quality protein line as does PF. And have heard very good things about both of their services (have actually ordered from both of them for small quantity items)- but as all CEE is made in china, and there have already been manufacturers found to have fake or poor quality CEE- a fact that was made widely known almost 9 months ago- the fact that none of these companies (not just TP but all the bulk sellers) even initiated testing of their CEE until several weeks ago is untenable. the funny thing being they had to be told where to test it

[macrophage69alpha]

further note- this was not intended to single out TP, just the bulk resellers in general. As well as companies that dont test. it really is essential with new items in particular to test, ideally every batch of material should be tested. But when its a relatively new production item the need is tenfold. The creatine market is dead, its low profit, these new creatines have sold at 3-10 times the price or more in cases like citrulline maleate and others. These are high profit items that less scrupulous manufacturers or manufacturers that are out of their depth will sell to brokers and companies in the US at a low price, but then supply fake or substandard material. there are a lot of good companies in ASIA and EUROPE but the ones that are not make testing an absolute essential.

since bulk sellers count on low cost material to be competitive they, and thier US suppliers are the most likely to fall for these "too good to be true" deals. Not to mention when you buy 100kg of 20-30$ material and it costs 200-400$ to test that material it raises the price of that material to 2-4$kg. Now larger manufacturers will buy 1000 or more kg (at a lower price) and then only pay 20-40cents per kg.

[Suareezay2]

macro...I know you werent singling out TP, no issue there. But I think that by singling out bulk CEE suppliers as a whole is misleading. Here is a post on bb.com from Doug from TPC and one from Dante, take from it what you will:

hello my name is doug, i am co-owner of true protein. we have been reading alot lately with the legitimacy of CEE in general. it seems there are many misconceptions as of late in "home testing" of CEE.

lastly, we have offered our lab analysis and certificates of analysis of our CEE to anyone that would like to see it, we always have from the start of business. we stand by our product and always have. it troubles us greatly when people question our legitimacy, when we have strived so hard in creating our legitimate reputation.

we think it is extremely irresponsible to come on here and say "we tested products", when the testing parameters are not even remotely correct. bodybuilding message boards are very powerful. we already see people giving advice of how to test the legitimacy of CEE, when they are completely wrong. we appreciate everyone trying to help each other out in not getting ripped off, but at the same time, misinformation is just as bad as the companies selling garbage product.

and from Dante:

The funny thing about this is I'm pretty darn sure that we get our CEE from the exact same place another company that everyone is raving about for its "legit CEE" on this thread does. I want this industry to have a "watchdog aspect" to it, to regulate itself. Doug and I have from the very start offered COA's and specs on all our proteins and the same goes for any supplement we sell. There are many other companies on this thread that Doug and I think very very highly of because we know they offer great products. There are some very good people in this industry and there are some shysters. Doug and I wouldnt be able to sleep at nite if we didnt carry what we thought was the "top of the line" product and there are other people on this thread and in this industry who are the exact same way.
Want to know a telltale test to find out if the CEE your using is bunk? Go off of it cold turkey. See if your training weights drop over the next couple weeks. Every time Ive ever stopped using Creat mono or CEE I can tell a short time after when the weights start feeling much heavier...... and I dont have that power to go get that extra rep or two that there is something missing from the mix. (Creatine) If you bought a ripoff company's CEE and its really creatine monohydrate the bloat you recieve should be the tell tale sign (as should some degree of stomach upset and fullness you recieve from the Creat mono ) As CEE imparts far far less if any bloat (which some people mistake as its not working because the weight scale doesnt jump up like normal creat mono) you should pretty easily know with your training weights whether it was working for you with a sudden cessation of its use.

[ScreaM]

Ive been using Cr2 by ALRI, for like 2 weekend, and I get great pumps, but wanna give it more time. Youll like it

[macrophage69alpha]

macro...I know you werent singling out TP, no issue there. But I think that by singling out bulk CEE suppliers as a whole is misleading. Here is a post on bb.com from Doug from TPC and one from Dante, take from it what you will:


and from Dante:

sorry but its a lie to say that they had a third party COA for CEE when they started selling it. They, and all the other bulk CEE suppliers relied on manufacturer and/or their resellers COA.

And as to whom they purchased it from, if they bought it the same place as mike- the person indicated on that thread- it was purchased from one of the US based resellers. Having contacted 4 of the larger resellers, none of them have valid COA's. Even now that its been made clear to them by their purchasers

[Suareezay2]

sorry but its a lie to say that they had a third party COA for CEE when they started selling it. They, and all the other bulk CEE suppliers relied on manufacturer and/or their resellers COA.

And as to whom they purchased it from, if they bought it the same place as mike- the person indicated on that thread- it was purchased from one of the US based resellers. Having contacted 4 of the larger resellers, none of them have valid COA's. Even now that its been made clear to them by their purchasers

So what are you suggesting about TP's (and other bulk suppliers) CEE. That its bunk or what?

I stopped using creatine mono about a few months ago because i was curious about losing the bloat, and I could feel it in the gym that I wasnt taking creatine anymore. A few weeks ago when i started on CEE I could feel the difference...i definatly had that creatine stregnth back, without the bloat. It works. Thats all im concerned with.

[nsa]

Not speaking for Macro, but he didn't say that the CEE was bunk he just said that the COA's were not by an independent third party.

[itza2mer]

I have a CEE question that is slightly off-topic. Is it necessary to take CEE on non training days?

[macrophage69alpha]

So what are you suggesting about TP's (and other bulk suppliers) CEE. That its bunk or what?

I stopped using creatine mono about a few months ago because i was curious about losing the bloat, and I could feel it in the gym that I wasnt taking creatine anymore. A few weeks ago when i started on CEE I could feel the difference...i definatly had that creatine stregnth back, without the bloat. It works. Thats all im concerned with.

no. Merely that most, and until recently all, of them had no idea what they were selling. Even though they claimed otherwise. The real issue with powders is the lack of testing and the degradation issue (improper handling + storage + packaging--- the issue mention above- vacuum sealing, dessicant, etc...).

to be very clear do not bleive that any of them intended to sell substandard material and in most cases they beleived it was good. Though some still sold the material after they knew there were problems (with their specific material).


side note- A more recent test of some of the manufacturers yielded one more company in the 80-90's(prior only 2 companies in 80-90's and 1 at 98%), with others still below 50% (cee content in the material). 2 still selling material that was not CEE at all.

[macrophage69alpha]

I have a CEE question that is slightly off-topic. Is it necessary to take CEE on non training days?

not necessary, though it does have benefits to recovery.

[nsa]

Macro, what kind of education do you have? I've always been impressed by your level of knowledge.

[Suareezay2]

no. Merely that most, and until recently all, of them had no idea what they were selling. Even though they claimed otherwise. The real issue with powders is the lack of testing and the degradation issue (improper handling + storage + packaging--- the issue mention above- vacuum sealing, dessicant, etc...).

to be very clear do not bleive that any of them intended to sell substandard material and in most cases they beleived it was good. Though some still sold the material after they knew there were problems (with their specific material).


side note- A more recent test of some of the manufacturers yielded one more company in the 80-90's(prior only 2 companies in 80-90's and 1 at 98%), with others still below 50% (cee content in the material). 2 still selling material that was not CEE at all.

gotcha.

so whos CEE do you use or recommend.

[solid-d]

whos tested out at 98%...

[macrophage69alpha]

whos tested out at 98%...

Scotts Finest.

there may be other companies that are using this material, but without actually testing their products (cant say which ones, if any)

[West Coast All Star]

scotts finest?

[West Coast All Star]

bump wtf is scotts finest?

[Positive]

Go to anafit.com

[West Coast All Star]

thanks, but I do not see any CEE

[West Coast All Star]

nevermind....found it a different way

https://www.anabolicfitness.net/shop...efde1e6&id=130

capsules suck tho

[Positive]

try this, https://www.anafit.com/shop/

[nsa]

capsules suck tho

Why do capsules suck?

[bluelightning3]

It is true that CEE is hygroscopic and if your thinking of capping it which will save you MONEY just use a dessicant in the bottle or ziplock. I have been capping my CEE for a good while and Im very happy with it. Higher Powers CEE is the best bang for you buck (only .04 cents a gram). Dont worry about it degrading because all other forms do just the same.

[macrophage69alpha]

the problem with HP and other bulk powder is that they are not vaccuum or even foil sealed. so as it sits in the warehouse before its shipped to you its exposed to moisture. your reccs are good but its the improper handling prior to the customers receipt that is an issue- ie it may sit for months in the above mentioned poorly sealed bottles without any dessicant, before it reaches you. bb.com has two ship points ohio and florida (both of which are quite humid).

[suzuki99]

so i just bought a scale and a huge bottle of cee from bulk for no reason? god dammit

[solid-d]

BlueLightning3...Just a handfull of posts and you seem to be pushing Higher Power product and the capping method... Just wondering what your job title for that company is?? Also got just wondering if you can provide some lab tests...
Also Macro, you can provide lab tests for Scotts Finest..?? You said it tested out at 98%, then there has to be lab tests around somewhere...Thanks..

PS- IMO, i think what Macro said about the warehhouse thing, about it sitting for a while in bulk seems to make scence, and Im wondering if it may have the same effect on bulk trib, and to a matter of fact, all bulk products....Now I got a question, would there be a difference of something that has decreased in potencey by a good % if you took a larger dose?? Wouldnt that work to get the full effect of the supplement?? Thanks..

[macrophage69alpha]

Also got just wondering if you can provide some lab tests...
Also Macro, you can provide lab tests for Scotts Finest..?? You said it tested out at 98%, then there has to be lab tests around somewhere...Thanks..

will contact the lab and scotts finest and see if they will allow posting. Would just post them, but they were provided in confidence and Chromadex might not allow it. They, like a lot of labs do not allow distribution of their tests without permission.