what is a good fat burner to use i was thinking clen but i only need to burn about 15lbs of fat any suggestions greatly appreciated :scratch: :scratch:
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what is a good fat burner to use i was thinking clen but i only need to burn about 15lbs of fat any suggestions greatly appreciated :scratch: :scratch:
Thermorexin is pretty solid, EC w/ alcar, YC w/ alcar, clen, dnp, T3 there are lots of good fat burners. What are your goals for fat loss, just lose those 15 pounds? What are your stats?
eca stack is goodQuote:
Originally Posted by rocky1388
EC w/ alcar is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by nvr2bigsnd
:)Quote:
Originally Posted by nsa
alcar is good with everything (btw- if you take clen, alcar is essential for its cardio protective effects.
what is alcar, ec?
thanx
alcar = acetyl - l - carnitine
ec = ephedrine and caffeine
a study on clen- that should be read before using (and why alcar is at minimum a necessity)- Normally a study like this would lead to a reccomendation not to use clen, however one must take into account the different responses between humans and animals to clenbuterol.- though still Definitely reccomend ALCAR and R+ LIPOIC (glucorell :) )
J Appl Physiol. 2005 Apr;98(4):1379-86. Epub 2004 Dec 10. Related Articles, Links
beta2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle.
Burniston JG, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.
Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores Univ., Webster St., Liverpool, L3 2ET, United Kingdom. [email protected]
High doses of the beta2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist clenbuterol can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known whether this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte-specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections via a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed with annexin V, single-strand DNA labeling, and terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase-mediated dUTP nick-end labeling). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h and peaked 4 h after clenbuterol administration. The lowest dose of clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 microg/kg, with peak apoptosis (0.35 +/- 0.05%; P < 0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg/kg. In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2%; P < 0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 microg/kg. Cardiomyocyte apoptosis was detected throughout the ventricles, atria, and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way, from the apex toward the base. beta-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol, or ICI 118551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte beta1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte beta2-AR was involved. These data show that, when administered in vivo, beta2-AR stimulation by clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through beta1- and beta2-AR, respectively.
thanks guys
Hey Macro, are there any studies on clen's effects on humans? I haven't found any, im thinking it might be an ethical issue if there is a reason why there are no studies done on human subjects...
you wont see too many studies on humans regarding clen, at least as dosage is concerned.
Yeah, i have looked in the past and come up with virtually nothing, i just assumed it was an ethical issue...
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsa
clen is not FDA approved. There are studies on clenbuterol in humans, they are just not available on line. Its approved in a number of countries for the treatment of asthma.
due to its long half life its not approved in the US.
Thanks macro...Quote:
Originally Posted by macrophage69alpha
pure EC stack
thermorexin
I also rotate clen in with these, some people on elite stack clen and thermorexin. I personally use it as part of my longer break between clen cycles. I still considering on whether I will use clen again, even though I take nearly 3 grams of alcar a day, based on that study which I have read posted elsewhere.
macro,
How would you compare that to human dosing?
in the rat models damage was seen at 1mcg/kg with maximum damage at 5mg/kg.Quote:
Originally Posted by korexite
how that translates to humans???
likely a higher dose in humans would be required. though that is well within normal high end dosing parameters. ie for a 220lb 100mcg would be 1mcg/kg.
On CEM they have stated that there are studies on humans for Albuterol which shows similar effects to Clen, but with human stuides to back it up.
what is Thermorexin
Quote:
Originally Posted by russia dog
www.thermorexin.com
A good fat loss product, combining most of the major fat loss stack ingredients all in one capsule...Quote:
Originally Posted by russia dog
I'll attest to that. I've been using it along with Levorex. And I'm cutting up pretty well (well the fact that I've laid back on all this crappy food helps too).Quote:
Originally Posted by nsa
Can't beat this combo:
Glucorell-R
Thermorexin
Levorex
Green Tea
Black Coffee
Good lifting plan
Mid-intensity, empty stomach cardio
Good diet
Sleep
Multi
It's what I do, at least, hahaha (though I need to get a new multi, now) :wg:
add Fish Oil and SesaThin to that and its money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky1388
How much cardio are you doing right now?
:starwars:
r u guys following the dosage that the bottle of thermo says? or ur own way?
dosing for thermorexin varies, A LOT. The directions on the bottle are guidelines (the most important of which is just to take one the first time)Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel21
right now:
on cardio days: 1 trex 15 minutes before empty stomach cardio
lifting/off days: 1 trex, 4 levorex 15 before first meal in morning
then...
1-trex, 4 levorex 15 mins before lunch
2-glucorellr 15 mins before pwo
2-glucorellr, 1 trex, 4 levorex 15 mins before ppwo
that's basically it for me on a typical day
1 hour in the morning empty stomach and i lift for 5 days a week different body part per day. i have the taurine i will be taking about 2 grams a day and drinking 2 gallons of water a day.
Dude make your own eca, do cardio, restrict your caloric intake, save your money and lose those 15#'s! Good luck...
taurine is an underrated and very cheap addition to any stimulant regimen. If taking clen its near essential.Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky1388