Thread: growing naturally...
06-27-2005, 12:52 PM #1
i just finished at SD cycle... up to 192lbs 6 ft... i wanna train naturally until about 200lbs then i'll do another SD cycle...now that im off cycle it just gets me down that the gains will be so slow and shit...maybe this is why they say to wait who knows, my first training session into pct and i actually gained a lil' strength which was nice, how long will it take for me to gain those 8lbs you reckon?any supps that'll speed up the process that perhaps i dont know about...?
06-27-2005, 01:27 PM #2
if your diet is on point most gain around a pound or 2 every 4-6 weeks
06-27-2005, 01:48 PM #3
agree with bryan diet is the key but i would maybe go get some CEE to help with maintaining gains and give u a lil boost
06-27-2005, 01:51 PM #4Associate Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
what ya SD cycle look like
what were ya gains?
06-27-2005, 02:53 PM #5King of Supplements
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- east coast
This a good post i read a few days ago about staying anabolic while remaining natural, and i agree with almost everything in this post...
Originally Posted By Lozgod at *** forums:
I been thinking about this lately. There may be people on the boards that want to remain all natural forever. With the recent deaths, as well as some non-recent ones, the ever changing atmosphere in the media and law books, and for some people the price, whatever your reasons, they should be respected and you should have a roadmap too.
Here is some info I compiled. It is universal for the steroid users as well as the all natty guys.
Fat: Fat is your friend when used properly. Low fat is definetly counter productive when building muscle. You need a caloric surplus to build. Fat offers 9 calories per gram compared to 4 calories per gram in protein and carbohydrates. Not only does it offer calories, but it is necassary and healthy when used properly. Fat is essential for proper brain and cellular function, certain fats and fatty acids are very heart healthy despite the AMA's endorsement of low fat foods. Monounsaturated fats like olive oil, and omega-3 fatty acids like those found in fatty cold water fish, are proven in many studies to protect the heart. Make fat your friend. Don't avoid it, it is a neccasary part of your diet.
Saturated fat should be eaten in low amounts, and trans-fat should be avoided all together. Carbs and fats should not be consumed in the same sitting. This will be explained later.
Protein: Comprised of amino acids, protein is the main course of your hungry muscles. Anaerobic exercise tears muscle, which is comprised of protein, and guess what it needs to rebuild that muscle? Yup, protein. Myself, I believe in the 2 grams of protein per 1 pound of body weight theory. In other words a 200 pound individual should consume at least 400 grams of protein per day.
There has been a lot of misinformation concerning the dangers of high protein consumption. This is in relation to the kidneys. Protein metabolism causes more uric acid production, and in black and white lab reports this is a red light. Research suggests this is not the case. There is not one study that proves high protein intake damages healthy kidneys. In the case of unhealthy kidneys protein can be very damaging and consultation with a doctor is ideal before engaging in any exercise program.
Having said that, excessive protein can be converted to glucose which can then be converted to stored fat. So there is such a thing as too much protein for the natural bodybuilder. The primary advantage of anabolic supplementation is increased protein synthesis in the muscle. IMO with a heavy training routine and anabolic steroids , there is no such thing as too much protein.
Carbohydrates: Again, as in the case of fats these are not your enemy. Dr. Atkins and a few others definetly have a great wealth of knowledge for losing weight. I read every single book written by the man and I can not say a single bad thing about the fat laden high protein diet if you are losing weight or pre-diabetic, however it isn't for the bodybuilder. Carbohydrates offer energy, causes insulin release (more on "slin" later), fills muscles with glycogen, and is your third component for caloric intake.
There are three types of carbohydrates. Simple, complex, and undigestable (i.e. apple pectin fiber). Simple carbs hit the stomach, get digested and rapidly raise blood sugar and insulin levels. Complex carbs are chains of simple carbs that slowly elevate insulin and sugar levels. Each plays a part in your diet.
Complex carbs are for energy you are going to need later on, and they also serve a purpose in your first meal. Upon rising after a 6-8 hour fast your body is literally beginning to starve. It begins to feed upon your precious muscle as a source of glucose. Eating a complex carb upon rising causes an insulin release and it throws catabolism in reverse and creates an anabolic environment once again. The reason a complex carb should be your choice over a simple carb is you want the smooth transition in blood sugar levels. Carbs can be converted to fat in the body and stored for energy later. A rapid rise increases the likelyhood of this happening.
Simple carbs have a specific time and place. Immediately following your workout. Your muscle is torn, damaged, and exhausted of fuel. A simple carb infuses the body with fast acting glucose. This in turn causes a rapid insulin release (more on "slin" later) which provides a highway for amino acids from protein to be shuttled in to the muscle, restarts the anabolic process, and refuels the muscles with glycogen.
Manipulating your hormones.
Insulin: Without writing an in-depth profile on insulin we will discuss it and what it can do for your goals. Insulin is one of the most anabolic hormones in our body. Many bodybuilders inject medicinal insulin meant for diabetics for it's anabolic abilities. Most users report solid gains that don't go away upon cessation of use. For anyone that isn't fluent when it comes to the body I got great news for you. Our bodies make our own insulin, and unless we have a disease that prevents it, we can call upon it at will. How? By ingesting carbohydrates. Insulin is the hormone used to turn carbohydrates in to energy/fuel. That is the good news, the bad news is insulin is a double edged sword. Insulin is also how we get fat. Insulin turns glucose to fat and also turns dietary fat to bodily fat.
So rule #1, avoiding consuming fats and carbs together as much as possible. The ideal meals will consist of either protein/carbohydrates, or protein/fats. Fats do not cause insulin release and protein causes a minimal release if any. So the goal here is to time your meals to maximize the beneficial effects of insulin. If fat is floating around and insulin is present, the effeciency of the body will work against you as it will turn fat in to fat first. Now using that same effeciency and manipulated correctly, insulin will take that protein and put it where it needs to be and as long as you didn't overconsume carbs the ones you did consume are used as the energy it takes to accomplish the process without storing fat.
Rule #2, timing is essential. As stated earlier, in the morning upon rising your body is starving and will feed upon itself for fuel. Complex carbs will release insulin and combined with protein will begin the process of muscle building. Your next dose of natural insulin release should be immediately after your workout. At this time you will need a rapid acting simple carb because the body is starved after using its energy stores to push and pull that heavy weight. Insulin will start the rebuilding process immediately with the ingestion of simple carbs and protein. One more time two hours after this should be sufficient for the natural bodybuilder. Now lets look at testosterone .
Testosterone: Here is where the vegans fall short. The building blocks of all sex hormones is cholesterol. Low fat/low cholesterol diets are proven to lower testosterone levels . Everyone has a genetic limit to how much testosterone they can produce, however this can be maximized or minimized depending on how you eat. Now I am not saying eat a crisco and egg yolk sandwich, but don't avoid cholesterol like it is poison. All animal products contain some cholesterol, some more than others. Eat like a man! Get your meat, eggs, and milk. For more info - http://www.primev.com/Testoste.htm - Proper nutrition is vital to healthy hormone production, including testosterone. A study at Penn State shows that a drop in testosterone occurs in diets with too much protein and too few carbohydrates, as well as high-carbohydrate low-fat diets. Proper dietary intake levels of vitamin A, B6, vitamin C, boron, zinc, and branched-chain amino acids are necessary for testosterone production. Testosterone levels can be increased to some extent through exercise.
Even more info - http://www.13.waisays.com/cholesterol.htm - 10 to 20% of the brain is composed of cholesterol. Thanks in part to cholesterol in animal food, humans are as intelligent as they are. Essential substances like the sex hormones and vitamin D are also constructed of cholesterol. Therefore it is absolutely not true that a low cholesterol level is healthier. Just as it isn't true that a low blood-glucose level is healthier. Both a low glucose- and a low cholesterol level are proof that your body lacks nutrients.
When cholesterol level is low, you will get ill sooner.
When cholesterol level is low, it is bad for the liver and the brain.
Adequate cholesterol is so essential that your body warns you with depressions if your cholesterol level is too low. The lower the cholesterol level, the deeper the depression (and the more aggressive). Numerous scientific investigations have shown that the cholesterol level was clearly lower in people who attempted or succeeded in committing suicide.
Another enemy of testosterone is alcohol. Many studies confirm this, I won't beat it to death or say don't you ever touch a drop of beer, but the less the better. For more info see - http://www.***********.com/t5303-alc...tosterone.html
HGH and IGF: IGF is a by-product of HGH and is highly anabolic. It is what causes the most growth from HGH. HGH is released in the body in spurts. There are amino acids and other "secretagouges" but if you want a really simple way to have the most naturally obtainable amount then all you have to do is get enough sleep. Our bodies were designed to get 6-8 hours of sleep a day. It is during this time we do the most of our growing. It is very important. You can eat, workout, but if you don't sleep you won't grow.
Water. Your need it to grow, stay healthy, cleanse your body, and to not die. Drink it and drink it often. Soda, diet soda, tea, etc. does not count as water. If it isn't water, it isn't water.
Don't overtrain. Overtrain and you will tear your body down beyond the point of it rebuilding itself and will increase your risk of injury. On this note it is very important to give your body time to recooperate. Four to seven days between body parts is the general concensus. Listen to your muscles. If you do chest on Monday and then again on Thursday, then on Monday again and it feels like you are getting weaker, you aren't giving your body enough time.
Don't undertrain trying to avoid overtraining. Nuff' said.
Eat every two hours. When you are eating (the right foods) you are building. Remember proper food combining. A good rule of thumb is:
Meal 1: Pro/Complex Carb
Meal 2: Pro/Fat
Meal 3: Pro/fat
Meal 4: Fast acting pro (shake)/simple carb
Meal 5: Pro/Complex Carb
Meal 6: Pro/fat
Bedtime: Protein shake
Hope this helps someone out.
06-27-2005, 03:05 PM #6
good input guys, yeah so itl take me a fair while to get these 8 lbs...im trying to not letting training and muscle building take over my life, but it seems its doing so to my dismay, i dont hang with some of my buds anymore because i gotta stay in to eat or dont wanna go out drinking...any1 else find this?
06-27-2005, 03:59 PM #7
06-27-2005, 04:48 PM #8
yeah I know what ya mean bro lifting takes some serious dedication and most dont really realize this fact
06-27-2005, 05:40 PM #9
Thanks NSA what you have posted is quit amazing, i have done 2 steroid cycles and got some fakes, i took the descision to remain natural for the rest of my life.
This tread will help answer the questions i add about all this.
Thanks once again
06-27-2005, 06:08 PM #10Originally Posted by Bryan2
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