Glutamine. The final verdict!!!!!

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10-08-2005, 04:16 PM
big'r

Glutamine. The final verdict!!!!!

GLUTAMINE DOES NOTING FOR BB-ING PURPOSES

Glutamine production in muscle protein is 50% lower than assumed
-Results of tracer studies indicate that skeletal muscle contributes to approximately 70% of overall glutamine production in healthy adults; the contribution of de novo synthesis being estimated at approximately 60%. Direct and specific measurements of glutamine in intact muscle protein are 50% lower than assumed previously (G1).

Most amino acids are precursors for alanine and glutamine synthesis in skeletal muscle
-Cysteine, leucine, valine, methionine, isoleucine, tyrosine, lysine, and phenylalanine increase the rate of glutamine synthesis. The progressive decline in alanine and glutamine synthesis noted on prolonged incubation is prevented by the addition of amino acids to the incubation medium (G2)

90% of the glutamine you take orally never even makes it to your muscles. Glutamine supplementation decreases it's own synthesis and mostly turns itself into glucose.
-Systemic glutamine administration is ineffective in preventing muscle depletion, due to a relative inability of skeletal muscle to seize glutamine from the bloodstream. Transport from blood accounts for only 25% of the intramuscular glutamine pool turnover. In contrast, the intracellular pools of most essential amino acids, such as phenylalanine or leucine, derived largely from the extracellular space. Studies involving oral ingestion of stable isotope-labelled glutamine indicate that 50-70% of enterally administered glutamine is taken up during first pass by splanchnic organs (gut and liver). (G14).
-Glutamine orally is successful in elevating plasma glutamine at the peak concentration by 46%, which suggests that a substantial proportion of the oral load escaped utilization by the gut mucosal cells and uptake by the liver and kidneys. If the entire glutamine dose had been distributed within the blood (8% body wt) and extracellular fluid (20% lean body mass) compartments, then a 3-mM rise in blood glutamine concentration might have been expected, whereas plasma glutamine concentration was only observed to rise by 0.3 mM. This might suggest that only 10% of the oral dose reached the extracellular fluid compartments (G15).
-Infusion of glutamine increases plasma glutamine concentration and turnover only threefold, formation of glucose from glutamine increased sevenfold. Furthermore, glutamine infusion decreased its own de novo synthesis (4.55 +/- 0.22 vs. 2.81 +/- 0.62 micromol x kg(-1) x min(-1);P < 0.02) (G16).

Glutamine does not prevent exercise-induced immune impairment. Carbs do. And glutamine does not influence hormonal levels
-Consuming 30-60 g carbohydrate x h(-1) during sustained intensive exercise attenuates rises in stress hormones such as cortisol and appears to limit the degree of exercise-induced immune depression. Convincing evidence that so-called 'immune-boosting' supplements, including high doses of antioxidant vitamins, glutamine, zinc, probiotics and Echinacea, prevent exercise-induced immune impairment is currently lacking (G31).
-Intracellular glutamine concentration may not be compromised when plasma levels are decreased postexercise. In addition, a number of recent intervention studies with glutamine feeding demonstrate that, although the plasma concentration of glutamine is kept constant during and after acute, strenuous exercise, glutamine supplementation does not abolish the postexercise decrease in in vitro cellular immunity, including low lymphocyte number, impaired lymphocyte proliferation, impaired natural killer and lymphokine-activated killer cell activity, as well as low production rate and concentration of salivary IgA (G32).
-Glutamine supplementation abolished the postexercise decline in plasma glutamine concentration but had no effect on lymphocyte trafficking, NK and lymphokine-activated killer cell activities, T cell proliferation, catecholamines, growth hormone, insulin, or glucose (G33).
-Nutritional supplementation with glutamine abolishes the exercise-induced decline in plasma glutamine, but does not influence post-exercise immune impairment. However, carbohydrate loading diminishes most exercise effects of cytokines, lymphocyte and neutrophils (G34).

Glutamine does not increase protein synthesis
-Intravenous infusion of amino acids increases the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis, but addition of glutamine to the amino acid mixture does not further stimulate muscle protein synthesis rate in healthy young men and women (G6).
-Short intravenous infusion of glutamine does not acutely stimulate duodenal protein synthesis in well-nourished, growing dogs (G8).

Glutamine prevents protein degradation but not more effectively than carbs
-0,9 g/kg glutamine during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation compared to 0,9 g/kg maltodextrin (G9).
-Glutamine preserves protein synthesis in Caco-2 cells submitted to "luminal fasting", but higher glutamine doses did not enhance protein synthesis beyond control fed values. And glucose supplementation restored FSR as effi-ciently as glutamine (G10).

Carbhohydrate or BCAA supplementation prevents decrease in glutamine levels during exercise
-Carbohydrate supplementation affects positively the immune response of cyclists by avoiding or minimizing changes in plasma glutamine concentration (G11).
-Following an exercise bout, a decrease in plasma glutamine concentration can be observed, which is completely abolished by BCAA supplementation (G12).
-BCAA supplementation during a triathlon completely prevents the decrease in plasma glutamine (G13).
-7 distance runners reduced muscle gycogen. A high carb meal (80% carbs) before 60 min. exercise increases plasma glutamine. A 14 h fast before exercise does not change plasma glutamine. Plasma BCAA did not change under either dietary condition (G17).

Fasting decreases glutamine transport. And supplementation during fasting does not prevent muscle loss
-During fasting, skeletal muscle exports increased amounts of glutamine (Gln) while increasing the production of this amino acid by glutamine synthetase (GS) in order to maintain the intramuscular Gln pool (G41).
-Background: One of the major activities of the enterocyte is amino acid transport, which is important not only for the organism but also for the integrity of the mucosa. Bowel rest during the postoperative period is marked by decreased calorie and protein intake with atrophy of the brush border mucosa.
Fasting for 72 hours decreases glutamine and arginine transport. Alanine MeAIB, and leucine transport were maintained (G42).
-0.35 g/kg glutamine/day does not prevent loss of lean muscle in athletes during a 12-day weight reduction program (G43).

Glutamine does not enhance performance
-6 resistance-trained men performed weightlifting exercises after ingesting 0.3 g/kg glutamine. This did not enhance performance (G22).

REFERENCES

(G1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...016&query_hl=1
(G2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...059&query_hl=1
(G6) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...116&query_hl=1
(G7) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...808&query_hl=1
(G8) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...312&query_hl=1
(G9) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
(G10) http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/285/1/G128
(G11) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...341&query_hl=1
(G12) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...939&query_hl=1
(G13) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...884&query_hl=1
(G14)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...750&query_hl=5
Complete studie: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...16#post7234016
(G15)http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/86/6/1770
(G16)http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...act/272/3/E437
(G17)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...952&query_hl=1
(G22)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
(G31)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...437&query_hl=1
(G32)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...472&query_hl=1
(G33)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...663&query_hl=1
(G34)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...210&query_hl=1
(G41)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...760&query_hl=1
(G42)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...166&query_hl=1
(G43)http://www.jssm.org/vol2/n4/7/v2n4-7pdf.pdf
10-08-2005, 04:29 PM
MuckDog

your back for more eh
10-08-2005, 05:12 PM
big'r

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuckDog

your back for more eh

What are you talking about?
10-08-2005, 06:01 PM
bluelightning3

yeah glutamine doesnt do anything for muscle growth. its just another supplement that sellers will say something to make a buck.
10-08-2005, 09:09 PM
testosterona

he's back for another beating. PINN, MESO were ya at.
10-08-2005, 09:33 PM
big'r

Quote:

Originally Posted by testosterona

he's back for another beating. PINN, MESO were ya at.

If you have nothing usefull to add DON'T REACT

I kept my part of the challenge (as i stated i would)
And i'm still waiting for the 1 reference i was promised......
10-08-2005, 11:08 PM
prolangtum

glutamine is a waste IMO. some swear by it, not me.
10-09-2005, 10:59 AM
O.M.E.G.A

glutamine works
10-09-2005, 11:43 AM
big'r

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMEGA

glutamine works

BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS!!!!! AND POST A STUDY SHOWING IT WORKS IN HEALTHY INDIVUALS THEN.

Sofar in each discussion i had, people always cried, shouted and flamed me, but not anyone ever posted any relevant study (muscle related).
So what are you gonna do? Be a man and post up, or are you gonna flame me like the other children on this (and other boards) did?

I know your going this way:

Quote:

If i cannot win a discussion as regards content, i'm gonna:

-Claim science sucks. It's personal experience that counts, science is theory. Hereby i'm gonna completely ignore the fact that scientific studies are actually looking at personal experience in individuals (only science looks at total groups/populations and eliminates all variables except for the substance tested, which fact i als completely ignore by stating the substance made me feel good, and i gained muchos lbs. I'm sure it was this substance cause..... Eh well, i know for sure anyway.)
-Totally ignore the studies which have been posted. I will not read them cause i allready know for sure the substance works for me, so why should i open my eyes? Damned i instructed people for 20 years, so i must be right. Here i completely ignore the fact that i may have instructed people falsly in the first place. Cause i read these adds 20 years ago and based my advice on these.
-I'm going to claim lot's of phd's, fitness instructors say the substance will benefit me, completely forgetting to read the references (if there are any at all) and check for myself if the instructor could in any way conclude his writing from these references. Why should i be critical, i can be dumb, the instructor thinks for me. I have never checked pubmed for anything and never will!
-And when i'm really feel like i'm loosing the discussion i'm going to ask for your stats. Flaming you for not being big enough, and therefore people should listen to me... Damned.
-In the case of glutamine i'm going to post studies proving it helps after surgery. I do absolutely not understand surgery differs from exercise, and state exercise is almost as catabolic as surgery.... When someone then posts studies showing glutamine does not work under normal stress, i completely overrule him by going offtopic again and claiming any of the previous points.
10-09-2005, 11:46 AM
O.M.E.G.A

No claims

the true believers know how good it really is
10-09-2005, 11:50 AM
big'r

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMEGA

No claims

the true believers know how good it really is

Hey, you're the same OMEGA as..... Aren't you?

Ok then, i respect you for not making claimes.
10-09-2005, 11:53 AM
*KT*

well, you learn something every day
10-09-2005, 12:00 PM
O.M.E.G.A

Quote:

Originally Posted by big'r

Hey, you're the same OMEGA as..... Aren't you?

Ok then, i respect you for not making claimes.

yes yes its me :)

"TheOmega"
and
"OMEGA"
10-09-2005, 12:41 PM
Mesomorphyl

Quote:

Originally Posted by big'r

Hey, you're the same OMEGA as..... Aren't you?

Ok then, i respect you for not making claimes.

Two seperate sets of standards?
10-09-2005, 01:45 PM
big'r

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

Two seperate sets of standards?

No seperate set of standards.

OMEGA does not claim glutamine to work. He just believes it too.
I cannot nor would i want to change someone's believes.

I only challenge people who claim glutamine to work based on socalled evidence.
It was a fair challenge i think. And it was not to flame anyone, but i just want people to think for themselves and try to stimulate people to show some criticism.

If i claim something, most of the time i can back up my claims by refering to studies. Lot's of people can not do this.

If someone actually looks into scientific evidence himself, he will learn more then following advice from others.

So i do not want anyone to take the studies i provide for granted. Everybody should be critical.
So do some research for yourself if you want to learn more on glutamine. But do not just listen to me or anyone else.

Edit: additional --> I know OMEGA from another board. There he also does not claim there are hundreds of studies showing benifit of glutamine (unlike many others). That's why i allready knew his point of view.
10-09-2005, 02:05 PM
Mesomorphyl

Quote:

Originally Posted by big'r

No seperate set of standards.

OMEGA does not claim glutamine to work. He just believes it too.
I cannot nor would i want to change someone's believes.

Now you are trying to split hairs... Your bias for non-argument is based on semantics. Listed below are definitions and synonyms.

claim
v.
1. To state to be true, especially when open to question; assert or maintain..

n.
1. An assertion on truth.

be•lief
n.
1. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something.

Synonyms: belief, claim, credence, credit, faith
These nouns denote mental acceptance of the truth, actuality, or validity of something.
10-09-2005, 02:11 PM
Mesomorphyl

Quote:

Originally Posted by big'r

No seperate set of standards.
Edit: additional --> I know OMEGA from another board. There he also does not claim there are hundreds of studies showing benifit of glutamine (unlike many others). That's why i allready knew his point of view.

You just proved my point you are biased if they are from your board.
10-09-2005, 02:29 PM
Mesomorphyl

I use glutamine as I believe it is benificail. Also here are some claims by doctors/studies that refute bigr’s beliefs.

This study is from The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research.

ABSTRACT
Twenty-nine (17 men, 12 women) collegiate track and field
athletes were randomly divided into a creatine monohydrate
(CM, n 5 10) group, creatine monohydrate and glutamine
(CG, n 5 10) group, or placebo (P, n 5 9) group. The CM
group received 0.3 g creatine•kg body mass per day for 1
week, followed by 0.03 g creatine•kg body mass per day for
7 weeks. The CG group received the same creatine dosage
scheme as the CM group plus 4 g glutamine•day21. All 3
treatment groups participated in an identical periodized
strength and conditioning program during preseason training.
Body composition, vertical jump, and cycle performances
were tested before (T1) and after (T2) the 8-week supplementation
period. Body mass and lean body mass (LBM)
increased at a greater rate for the CM and CG groups, compared
with the P treatment. Additionally, the CM and CG
groups exhibited significantly greater improvement in initial
rate of power production, compared with the placebo treatment.
These results suggest CM and CG significantly increase
body mass, LBM, and initial rate of power production
during multiple cycle ergometer bouts.

Other reasons BBers use GLUTAMINE…

Glutamine: No amino acid is as important in promoting muscle anabolism as glutamine. Intracellular glutamine levels are directly correlated with protein synthesis. 2 grams of glutamine taken orally at bedtime have also been shown to significantly elevate human growth hormone levels while sleeping.

Glutamine has been shown to assist in improving: immune system function, brain function, blood sugar levels, increasing muscle mass, and healing and maintaining the digestive tract. It decreases intestinal permeability by nutritionally supporting and strengthening the mucosa.
* "There is increasing evidence that systemic Glutamine functions as an important biosynthesis precursor in intestinal cells by supporting synthesis of Glutathione"
* Present Knowledge in Nutrition 7th Edition. p74. By: International Life Sciences Institute.

The majority of commercially available Glutamine sources offer only L-Glutamine, a synthetic, free amino acid. L-Glutamine has been shown to be unstable in the presence of heat, water, acid or base solutions, making L-Glutamine impractical to utilize in all but powdered food preparations. Covalent Bonded Glutamine, on the other hand, has been shown to withstand processing temperatures of 180 degrees Fahrenheit for one hour or 250 degrees Fahrenheit for 15 minutes and pH variances in the range of 3.5 to 9.0. In addition, Covalent Bonded Glutamine is stable in aqueous solutions for prolonged periods of time. Covalent Bonded Glutamine can be used in all liquid and semi-solid food preparations. In addition, due to the instability of L-Glutamine in water and pH extremes, it is safe to assume that much of L-Glutamine decomposes once it passes into the human gastrointestinal tract. Gastric acid is equivalent to 0.1 Normal Hydrochloric Acid (pH less than 2) and at 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit and a pH below 2, L-Glutamine decomposes very quickly. In addition, since L-Glutamine is a free amino acid, what percentage that does survive the pH extremes of the stomach is absorbed through the intestinal wall by a different mechanism than covalent bound amino acids...this free amino acid absorption mechanism is competitive... meaning that in an excess of free amino acids, only a certain percentage of any particular free amino acid will be absorbed. Covalent Bonded Glutamine, on the other hand demonstrates improved retention in intestinal cells and the oligopeptides containing Glutamine will be absorbed through the intestinal wall by a less "competitive" method. Studies by P.D. Fairclough et al., G.K. Grimble et al, and D.B.A. Silk et al, have shown that uptake of amino acids is faster and more "even" from oligopeptide chains than from the equivalent free amino acid mixtures in the Human intestine. In other words, Covalent Bonded Glutamine will be absorbed faster and probably more efficiently than L-Glutamine in the Human digestive system. Recent publications have stated that Covalent bonded glutamine delivers up to 10 times more glutamine to the blood stream than L-glutamine.

And here is a bunch of references:

1. Shabert & Ehrlich (editors;1994), Avery Publishing Group, NY. "The Ultimate Nutrient Glutamine: The Essential Non-essential Amino Acid".

2.Grimble (1994), Annual Review of Nutrition 14, 419 - 447. "The Significance of Peptides In Clinical Nutrition".

3. Scheppach et al. (1994), Gastroenterology 107, 429 - 434. "Effect of Free Glutamine and Alanyl-Glutamine Dipeptide on Mucosal Proliferation of the Human Ileum and Colon".

4. Miname et al. (1992), Gastroenterology 103, 3 - 11. "Characteristics and Mechanism of Glutamine Dipeptide Absorption in Human Intestine".

5. Adibi (1987), Metabolism 36, 1001 - 1011. "Experimental Basis For Use of Peptides As Substrates For Parenteral Nutrition".

6. Adibi (1971), Journal of Clinical Investigation 50, 2266 - 2275. "Intestinal Transport of Dipeptides In Man: Relative Importance of Hydrolysis and Intact Absorption".

7. Adibi & Mercer (1973), Journal of Clinical Investigation 52, 1586 - 1594. "Protein Digestion In Human Intestine As Reflected In Human Mucosal and Plasma Amino Acid Concentrations After Meals".

8. Rooyackers et al. (1994), Thesis University of Limburg, The Netherlands. "Muscle Wasting and the Role of Glutamine: Metabolic Studies In a Catabolic Rat Model".

9. Kee et al. (1994) Metabolism 43, 1373 - 1378. "The Effect of Dipeptide Structure On Dipeptide and Amino Acid Clearance In Rats".
10-09-2005, 03:21 PM
big'r

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

I use glutamine as I believe it is benificail. Also here are some claims by doctors/studies that refute bigr’s beliefs.

This study is from The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research.

ABSTRACT
Twenty-nine (17 men, 12 women) collegiate track and field
athletes were randomly divided into a creatine monohydrate
(CM, n 5 10) group, creatine monohydrate and glutamine
(CG, n 5 10) group, or placebo (P, n 5 9) group. The CM
group received 0.3 g creatine•kg body mass per day for 1
week, followed by 0.03 g creatine•kg body mass per day for
7 weeks. The CG group received the same creatine dosage
scheme as the CM group plus 4 g glutamine•day21. All 3
treatment groups participated in an identical periodized
strength and conditioning program during preseason training.
Body composition, vertical jump, and cycle performances
were tested before (T1) and after (T2) the 8-week supplementation
period. Body mass and lean body mass (LBM)
increased at a greater rate for the CM and CG groups, compared
with the P treatment. Additionally, the CM and CG
groups exhibited significantly greater improvement in initial
rate of power production, compared with the placebo treatment.
These results suggest CM and CG significantly increase
body mass, LBM, and initial rate of power production
during multiple cycle ergometer bouts.

You are sooooooooo stupid. Where in this study does it show glutamine + creatine increases lbm more than creatine alone?
Can't you read at all?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

Other reasons BBers use GLUTAMINE…

Glutamine: No amino acid is as important in promoting muscle anabolism as glutamine. Intracellular glutamine levels are directly correlated with protein synthesis. 2 grams of glutamine taken orally at bedtime have also been shown to significantly elevate human growth hormone levels while sleeping.

Glutamine has been shown to assist in improving: immune system function, brain function, blood sugar levels, increasing muscle mass, and healing and maintaining the digestive tract. It decreases intestinal permeability by nutritionally supporting and strengthening the mucosa.
* "There is increasing evidence that systemic Glutamine functions as an important biosynthesis precursor in intestinal cells by supporting synthesis of Glutathione"
* Present Knowledge in Nutrition 7th Edition. p74. By: International Life Sciences Institute.

The majority of commercially available Glutamine sources offer only L-Glutamine, a synthetic, free amino acid. L-Glutamine has been shown to be unstable in the presence of heat, water, acid or base solutions, making L-Glutamine impractical to utilize in all but powdered food preparations. Covalent Bonded Glutamine, on the other hand, has been shown to withstand processing temperatures of 180 degrees Fahrenheit for one hour or 250 degrees Fahrenheit for 15 minutes and pH variances in the range of 3.5 to 9.0. In addition, Covalent Bonded Glutamine is stable in aqueous solutions for prolonged periods of time. Covalent Bonded Glutamine can be used in all liquid and semi-solid food preparations. In addition, due to the instability of L-Glutamine in water and pH extremes, it is safe to assume that much of L-Glutamine decomposes once it passes into the human gastrointestinal tract. Gastric acid is equivalent to 0.1 Normal Hydrochloric Acid (pH less than 2) and at 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit and a pH below 2, L-Glutamine decomposes very quickly. In addition, since L-Glutamine is a free amino acid, what percentage that does survive the pH extremes of the stomach is absorbed through the intestinal wall by a different mechanism than covalent bound amino acids...this free amino acid absorption mechanism is competitive... meaning that in an excess of free amino acids, only a certain percentage of any particular free amino acid will be absorbed. Covalent Bonded Glutamine, on the other hand demonstrates improved retention in intestinal cells and the oligopeptides containing Glutamine will be absorbed through the intestinal wall by a less "competitive" method. Studies by P.D. Fairclough et al., G.K. Grimble et al, and D.B.A. Silk et al, have shown that uptake of amino acids is faster and more "even" from oligopeptide chains than from the equivalent free amino acid mixtures in the Human intestine. In other words, Covalent Bonded Glutamine will be absorbed faster and probably more efficiently than L-Glutamine in the Human digestive system. Recent publications have stated that Covalent bonded glutamine delivers up to 10 times more glutamine to the blood stream than L-glutamine.

THESE PEOPLE SIMPLY STATE GLUTAMINE AS AN AMINO ACID IS IMPORTANT, WHICH I TOTALLY AGREE TO.
SUPPLEMENTING IS ANOTHER THING, but you did not understand that did you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big'r

If i cannot win a discussion as regards content, i'm gonna:

-I'm going to claim lot's of phd's, fitness instructors say the substance will benefit me, completely forgetting to read the references (if there are any at all) and check for myself if the instructor could in any way conclude his writing from these references. Why should i be critical, i can be dumb, the instructor thinks for me. I have never checked pubmed for anything and never will!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

And here is a bunch of references:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

1. Shabert & Ehrlich (editors;1994), Avery Publishing Group, NY. "The Ultimate Nutrient Glutamine: The Essential Non-essential Amino Acid".

This is a book. Where in the book is the proof?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...66441?v=glance

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

2.Grimble (1994), Annual Review of Nutrition 14, 419 - 447. "The Significance of Peptides In Clinical Nutrition".

Show me the source to this reference. One cannot access this information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

3. Scheppach et al. (1994), Gastroenterology 107, 429 - 434. "Effect of Free Glutamine and Alanyl-Glutamine Dipeptide on Mucosal Proliferation of the Human Ileum and Colon".

Glutamine (Gln) is considered a trophic factor for small intestinal epithelia, which is important during severe illness. Its use in parenteral nutrition is precluded by its instability

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

4. Miname et al. (1992), Gastroenterology 103, 3 - 11. "Characteristics and Mechanism of Glutamine Dipeptide Absorption in Human Intestine".

It is concluded that in human intestine the predominant mechanism for assimilation of glutamine-dipeptides is absorption as intact dipeptide rather than hydrolysis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

5. Adibi (1987), Metabolism 36, 1001 - 1011. "Experimental Basis For Use of Peptides As Substrates For Parenteral Nutrition".

This is the reference:

Quote:

Experimental basis for use of peptides as substrates for parenteral nutrition: a review.

Adibi SA.

Clinical Nutrition Unit, Montefiore Hospital, Pittsburgh, PA 15213.

Publication Types:

* Review
* Review, Tutorial

PMID: 3116363 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Where does it claim any of your points?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

6. Adibi (1971), Journal of Clinical Investigation 50, 2266 - 2275. "Intestinal Transport of Dipeptides In Man: Relative Importance of Hydrolysis and Intact Absorption".

The results of these studies suggest that: (a) dipeptide disappearance in the gut lumen is principally accomplished by intact absorption and not by hydrolysis; (b) intracellular hydrolysis of dipeptides is markedly greater in the ileum than in the jejunum, while dipeptide absorption rates are either similar or only slightly different in these two segments; (c) there is no appreciable hydrolysis of glycylglycine by the membrane-bound enzymes and only a small fraction of glycylleucine is hydrolyzed by these enzymes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

7. Adibi & Mercer (1973), Journal of Clinical Investigation 52, 1586 - 1594. "Protein Digestion In Human Intestine As Reflected In Human Mucosal and Plasma Amino Acid Concentrations After Meals".

It is concluded that after the ingestion of a test meal containing a substantial amount of protein which is within the usual range of dietary intake; (a) the exogenous protein is the principal source of the increased free and peptide amino acids in the intraluminal contents and in the plasma; (b) there are greater amounts of amino acids present as small peptides than in the free form in the gut lumen; (c) the ingested protein can be recovered as late as 4 h both in the jejunum and in the ileum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

8. Rooyackers et al. (1994), Thesis University of Limburg, The Netherlands. "Muscle Wasting and the Role of Glutamine: Metabolic Studies In a Catabolic Rat Model".

This study is NOT online too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

9. Kee et al. (1994) Metabolism 43, 1373 - 1378. "The Effect of Dipeptide Structure On Dipeptide and Amino Acid Clearance In Rats".

There were significant differences (P < .001) in the volume of distribution of the dipeptides. Many dipeptides had volumes of distribution greater than the blood volume of the animals. The amino acids released from the dipeptides had a longer t1/2 (P < .001) than their parent dipeptides. The t1/2 and the weight-corrected area under the blood concentration-versus-time curve (AUC) of the same amino acid released from different dipeptides differed (P < .05).

Dumb bitch!!! Not 1 of these studies even uses the word muscle or protien synthesis in any context whatsoever
10-09-2005, 03:33 PM
Mesomorphyl

Quote:

Originally Posted by big'r

You are sooooooooo stupid. Where in this study does it show glutamine + creatine increases lbm more than creatine alone?

Dumb bitch!!! Not 1 of these studies even uses the word muscle or protien synthesis in any context whatsoever

You are trying to tell people what is works and what doesn't? You claim using dextrose pre work out even pre cardio is a good thing... You claim spiking insulin pre workout. How can anyone listen to you???

The study shows unequivically that glutimine(even with creatine) was benificial.

Where did I say or use the word muscle or protein? I said benificial.

So Fukk you stupid bitch. Cant you read??? Are you so stuck on yourself and the excrement that spews from your cocksucker you cannot see another point of view. You are a jackass plain and simple.

SLAP! (yes this was a virtual bitch slap, bitch)
10-09-2005, 03:46 PM
big'r

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

You are trying to tell people what is works and what doesn't? You claim using dextrose pre work out even pre cardio is a good thing... You claim spiking insulin pre workout. How can anyone listen to you???

Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise
Kevin D. Tipton1,2, Blake B. Rasmussen1,2, Sharon L. Miller1,2, Steven E. Wolf1, Sharla K. Owens-Stovall1, Bart E. Petrini1, and Robert R. Wolfe1,2

1 Department of Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch, and 2 Metabolism Unit, Shriners Hospitals for Children, Galveston, Texas 77550

The present study was designed to determine whether consumption of an oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement (EAC) before exercise results in a greater anabolic response than supplementation after resistance exercise. Six healthy human subjects participated in two trials in random order, PRE (EAC consumed immediately before exercise), and POST (EAC consumed immediately after exercise). A primed, continuous infusion of L-[ring-2H5]phenylalanine, femoral arteriovenous catheterization, and muscle biopsies from the vastus lateralis were used to determine phenylalanine concentrations, enrichments, and net uptake across the leg. Blood and muscle phenylalanine concentrations were increased by ~130% after drink consumption in both trials. Amino acid delivery to the leg was increased during exercise and remained elevated for the 2 h after exercise in both trials. Delivery of amino acids (amino acid concentration times blood flow) was significantly greater in PRE than in POST during the exercise bout and in the 1st h after exercise (P < 0.05). Total net phenylalanine uptake across the leg was greater (P = 0.0002) during PRE (209 ± 42 mg) than during POST (81 ± 19). Phenylalanine disappearance rate, an indicator of muscle protein synthesis from blood amino acids, increased after EAC consumption in both trials. These results indicate that the response of net muscle protein synthesis to consumption of an EAC solution immediately before resistance exercise is greater than that when the solution is consumed after exercise, primarily because of an increase in muscle protein synthesis as a result of increased delivery of amino acids to the leg.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

The study shows unequivically that glutimine(even with creatine) was benificial.

You noticed they used creatine in the study. Whahahaha. Who had to tell you this? Did you notice for yourself?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

Where did I say or use the word muscle or protein? I said benificial.

Oh, my god you are soooooooo funny, i'm laughing loud here. This is a BB-ing forum. You did not even know that baco boy!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

So Fukk you stupid bitch. Cant you read??? Are you so stuck on yourself and the excrement that spews from your cocksucker you cannot see another point of view. You are a jackass plain and simple.

SLAP! (yes this was a virtual bitch slap, bitch)

WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I'd love to own your ass every day, but i just feel soooooo sorry for you.
10-09-2005, 04:07 PM
O.M.E.G.A

Yes I do belive Glutamine works

specifically "glutamine peptides"

theory is that more of it bypasses stomach acids and thus more deliverable glutamine is available for target tissues,

also,

1) Glutamine is the primary fuel used by the immune system, if the bodies Immune system enhancing sytems were to eat at a "dinner table" so to speak and they were presented with mutliple Energy sources such as:

fat
glucose
protiens
alcohol
glutamine

those systems would say "glutamine please" that is their preferential energy source.

2) Glutamine via word of mouth seems to alleviate muscle soreness, and has some degree of cell volumization, word of mouth is a gold standard of a ingredients success long term NOT marketing

3) even if Gltuamine is conditionally essential when on a calorie restricted diet taken post workout it replenishes glutamine pools fast, more so than "just food", it feeds the immune sytem and all around provides a anticatbolic "buffer"

4) you IDIOTS still Ignore the novel new delivery mathods that make glutamine deliverable into the cell, and bypasses the termination by PH changes in the gut, N-acetyl-glutamate, and Glutamine Pepetides deliver the goods

5) Idiots was used in an affectionate way: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...57/catpwned.jpg

6)

there is not that much as far as studies but here are some conventional ideas and many believe them to be true here was my right up:

Glutamine supplementation has been touted as one of the missing pieces of the hypertrophic/anti-catabolic puzzle for intensely training athletes. Many have felt it to be beneficial in training, particularly when dieting, training very frequently and very intensely.

Up until now, some of the drawbacks to oral glutamine supplementation was the absorbability factors. The L-form just required mass amounts to pass the gut membrane and be taken up to target tissues. As a result, much was wasted. But now, with the advent of peptide bonded forms of glutamine, this problem has been efficiently overridden. The peptide glutamic substrates are taken up much more easily, and as a result, much higher plasma concentrations are achieved, with much less required to achieve this end result.

for every 17 grams of Ener-G your getting 5.595 grams of GLUTAMINE

along with those 5.595 grams your also getting all amino acids including all 8 essential amino acids.

Now, with this in mind, one may still question, "Why glutamine? What will it do for me, the athlete?"

Glutamine is the most abundant occuring amino acid present in the entire body, comprising about 75% of the muscle cell amino acid pool.

During stress, the body's requirement for glutamine often appears to excedeour ability to produce sufficient amounts to reinstate cell pool homeostasis. Stress causes increased amounts of glutamine to release from muscle, and it becomes difficult to restore, presumably as a result of disturbances of the Na+electrochemical gradient across the cell membrane. Liver and spleen uptake of glutamine is also increased during these stressful times, further displacing the content present in muscle.

Low plasma concentrations of glutamine reflect reduced stores in muscle tissue. Feeding extra amounts of readily available/easily absorbed peptide bonded glutamine during these periods would be a wise idea to counterattack these catabolic mechanisms and sustain the muscle amino pool content.

On a cellular level, let's take a look at why glutamine is such a worthwhile substrate----Some of its proven benefits:

*It attenuates glutathione depletion( Glutathione is the most important endogenous scavenger system/anti-oxidant in the entire body). Glutathione depletion is often pronounced after bouts of stress, including events of high intensity excercise such as we subject ourselves to during heavy training.

*Glutamine has been shown to stimulate/activate protein synthesis and inhibit turnover(degradation). It has been shown to enhance/sustain nitrogen homeostasis under periods of stress.

*Glutamine modulates lymphocyte (immune cell) activation,by proliferating (increasing population)of T-Cell numbers which in turn increases immune system response. Parenteral administration in hospital patients under stress has been found to greatly decrease the instance of bacterial infections. For the rest of us we can achieve those same benifits via supplemenation of Glutamine Peptides

*Stimulates hepatic(liver)glycogen synthesis.

*Glutamine has also been shown to enhance stress-induced heat shock protein(HSP)expression. HSP's provide protection of cellular injury.

*Lastly, glutamine peptides have the antioxidant action similar to 3-5 servings of fruit or vegetables based on ORAC (oxygen radical absorbance capacity) for vitamins C, E, and beta-carotene. Glutamine peptides offer 300 times more ORAC antioxidant equivalents as compared to free glutamine.

SOURCE ORAC INTAKES

Vitamin E (500mg) 116
Vitamin C (500mg) 2830
3-5 servings of fruits and vegetables 1950
B-carotene (250mg) 300
Bound amino acid glutamine (5-7g) 3.5-5.4
Protein hydrolysate (10-15g) 1100-1650

oral administration of glutamine,particularly in peptide-chained form very well may improve nitrogen economy/retention, improve repair/recovery of damaged muscle tissue,and diminish the the incidence of free radicals/bacterial forms present in those who are placing stress on their systems through the routines of high intensity training.
10-09-2005, 04:08 PM
O.M.E.G.A

Mesomorphyl

your avatar is hilariuos lol
10-09-2005, 04:15 PM
big'r

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

I think you should have posted this in the new members section... Too much information.

WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

If i cannot win a discussion as regards content, i'm gonna:

-Totally ignore the studies which have been posted. I will not read them cause i allready know for sure the substance works for me, so why should i open my eyes? Damned i instructed people for 20 years, so i must be right. Here i completely ignore the fact that i may have instructed people falsly in the first place. Cause i read these adds 20 years ago and based my advice on these.
-And when i'm really feel like i'm loosing the discussion i'm going to ask for your stats. Flaming you for not being big enough, and therefore people should listen to me... Damned.

You insaaaaaaaaaane dumb f*ck.
This is what they taught you in preschool did they?

You are so completely childish. Why did they not ban you, tell me this?
They feel sorry for you like i do?

This has to be the saddest reaction i ever saw when trying to run away from a discussion when you loose.

FUNNNNNNNNNNNYYYYYYYYYY SHIT.
Can you do other funny acts too?
10-09-2005, 04:17 PM
big'r

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMEGA

Mesomorphyl

your avatar is hilariuos lol

THANX :wg:
10-09-2005, 04:26 PM
big'r

@Mesomorphyl
OMG you're even deleting your own posts now? Afraid anyone might read what you wrote?
10-09-2005, 06:04 PM
jezurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluelightning3

yeah glutamine doesnt do anything for muscle growth. its just another supplement that sellers will say something to make a buck.

READ!!! ****ers!!!!

Thnx for enlighting us bluelighting, becaus those ' rednecks' won't admit they lost their challenge. Instead they bashes/flames someone' s avatar, that's so childish and gay.
10-09-2005, 06:06 PM
jezurd

Quote:

Originally Posted by testosterona

he's back for another beating. PINN, MESO were ya at.

**** you ectomorph, who ar u, PINN and meso's lapdog? :1laugh:
10-09-2005, 08:36 PM
Mesomorphyl

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMEGA

Mesomorphyl

your avatar is hilariuos lol

Yeah, I just had to video tape jezurd while he was mowing my lawn...
10-09-2005, 08:42 PM
Mesomorphyl

Quote:

Originally Posted by big'r

Damned i instructed people for 20 years, so i must be right. [b]

This has to be the saddest reaction i ever saw when trying to run away from a discussion when you loose.

I do not believe you know much, but you can go to pubmed alot... Your are trying to use smokescreens and mirrors to detract from the issue at hand. I do not believe you have any experience, and if you did you believe yourself to be worthless... Remember, you do not trust experience. You are a liar and are probably the dreg of your society. You are a bottom feeder.

I deleted my other thread as I decided to take the high road. I am better than you.
10-09-2005, 09:17 PM
big'r

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

I do not believe you know much, but you can go to pubmed alot... Your are trying to use smokescreens and mirrors to detract from the issue at hand.

The issue being?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

I do not believe you have any experience, and if you did you believe yourself to be worthless... Remember, you do not trust experience. You are a liar and are probably the dreg of your society. You are a bottom feeder.

Will you believe it? I'm laughing my ass off here...
OMG. WILL YOU EVER STOP. HEHEHEHEHE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

I deleted my other thread as I decided to take the high road. I am better than you.

True!!!! You got me there. I myself stopped crying at the age of 15. :wg:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big'r

If i cannot win a discussion as regards content, i'm gonna:

-Claim science sucks. It's personal experience that counts, science is theory. Hereby i'm gonna completely ignore the fact that scientific studies are actually looking at personal experience in individuals (only science looks at total groups/populations and eliminates all variables except for the substance tested, which fact i also completely ignore by stating the substance made me feel good, and i gained muchos lbs. I'm sure it was this substance cause..... Eh well, i know for sure anyway.)
-And when i'm really feel like i'm loosing the discussion i'm going to ask for your stats. Flaming you for not being big enough, and therefore people should listen to me... Damned.

I proved glutamine to show no value whatsoever in BBers. And your posts involved......... :scratch:

What's behind door no. 2 Bob? --> ZERRRRRRROOOOOOOO.

Did i allready tell you how funny the interpretations of your studies are?
How good were you at textual explanation in high school??
Tell me :rolleyes:
10-09-2005, 09:26 PM
abstrack

Thread closed due to childish internet drama.

One thing that I have found out in this industry is that for every study proving something works or is beneficial, there is another study by another doctor claiming it doesnt work.