VIT C is a miracle!!!!!!!!!!!!

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-04-2006, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by Tkarrde

This article may prove interesting:

http://www.avantlabs.com/magmain.php...430&issueID=35

Exactly what I have been preaching

Originally Posted by NewKid

Good read...

Seems to go along with what johan has said...I would like to read more about the 100s of grams of Vit C taken through IV...Does anyone have that study available?...

Are you refering to something in the article(I just skimmed through it). Or something I have mentioned in this thread?

**Myka** · 01-04-2006, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by johan

Are you refering to something in the article(I just skimmed through it). Or something I have mentioned in this thread?

You mentioned that people taking 100s of grams were losing weight dramatically...I think I would like to try this just so I could know(without the IV haha). Also have you tried the grape seed extract? I read that it was 20 times more powerful than Vit C. I wonder if you would need to take it in a much larger than recommended dose like the Vit C...

**G-Force** · 01-04-2006, 06:15 AM

johan how much do u get your ascorbic acid powder for

ive seen it for 250g @ £13 on the net - is this good

also what are your opinions on

Vitamin C - Calcium Ascorbate Powder
Vitamin C - Sodium Ascorbate Powder
Vitamin C - Magnesium Ascorbate Powder

which ones best?

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-04-2006, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by NewKid

You mentioned that people taking 100s of grams were losing weight dramatically...I think I would like to try this just so I could know(without the IV haha). Also have you tried the grape seed extract? I read that it was 20 times more powerful than Vit C. I wonder if you would need to take it in a much larger than recommended dose like the Vit C...

Ahh yeah. That is a article by charles poliquin(I can never spell this dudes name right but I recon you recognise the name). He made no references to medical studies and I havent been able to find anything about it on pubmed. Poliquin says that he got the idea when he get iv ascorbate treatment for a recluse(sp??) spider bite and noticed he went hypo and lost bf from that. So he contacted Dr Tom Levy(author of Vitamin c, curing the incurable)and got his advice on how to proceed. Poliquin claims it both burns fat and increases performance.
Here is the article and some discussion about it on ********
http://www.bodyofscience.com/issues/...5_poliquin.pdf

http://www.*************/readTopic.d...59121&pageNo=0

But there is no possible way to get to those dosages oraly. It wont do any good you will just shit it straight out

I do personaly noticed weightloss when I use 15-20 grams each day. Not a dramatic effect, my fatloss had stalled and when I started doing it I started losing around 1ib/week again.

I have used grape seed extract. When they say its 20 times as powerfull as vitamin c they just mean its 20 times as potent as antioxidant but it doesnt have the same effects as vitamin c. Most antioxidants have a few specific free radicals they target. Also I wouldnt know if using lots of grape seed extract would be safe

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-04-2006, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by G-Force

johan how much do u get your ascorbic acid powder for

ive seen it for 250g @ £13 on the net - is this good

also what are your opinions on

Vitamin C - Calcium Ascorbate Powder
Vitamin C - Sodium Ascorbate Powder
Vitamin C - Magnesium Ascorbate Powder

which ones best?

I pay about 5 euro for 90 grams so your price looks good

those damn americans can get it much cheaper then us europeans.

Sodium ascorbate is what I use most of the time. Sodium has no ill effects in high dosages(only sodium chloride is linked to raised blood pressure) so its the most convinient mineral ascorbate. I would go with magnesium ascorbate if I could find it cheap. I wouldnt use calcium ascorbate since I am cautious about using to much calcium.

So go with either ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate. Be cautious with ascorbic acid if you have a sensitive stomach. Otherwise its good. I have noticed that when I go to bowel tollerance with sodium ascorbate I get bad stomach pains. When I go to bowel tollerance with ascorbic acid I just get pain free dihareea. Dont know if this is just me or something general.

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-04-2006, 07:41 AM

http://www.t - nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=043501647EE7A09A52432AD365 D4BFCD.hydra?id=559121&pageNo=0

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-04-2006, 07:42 AM

copy the link, remove the spaces and paste i into your browser adress field. If I dont space it it gets screwed up.

**G-Force** · 01-04-2006, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by johan

I pay about 5 euro for 90 grams so your price looks good

those damn americans can get it much cheaper then us europeans.

Sodium ascorbate is what I use most of the time. Sodium has no ill effects in high dosages(only sodium chloride is linked to raised blood pressure) so its the most convinient mineral ascorbate. I would go with magnesium ascorbate if I could find it cheap. I wouldnt use calcium ascorbate since I am cautious about using to much calcium.

So go with either ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate. Be cautious with ascorbic acid if you have a sensitive stomach. Otherwise its good. I have noticed that when I go to bowel tollerance with sodium ascorbate I get bad stomach pains. When I go to bowel tollerance with ascorbic acid I just get pain free dihareea. Dont know if this is just me or something general.

all of them seem to be practically the same price
i think i will try the ascorbate acid first (which is actually £1 cheaper

)

i did see your thread on experimenting with this and i did try it at 8g a day but this was orally and got too expensive so gave up

i will try the powder at a higher dose - ive got really bad knees too, so i hope it helps like it did with you

**BIGPHIL** · 01-04-2006, 11:27 AM

Im using VITAMIN C as Ascorbic acid 1000mg
with:-
citrus bioflavonoids 25mg
Rose hips 20 mg

I am going to take 8 grams daily and see how this affects me that means 8 tablets..any good reccomendations about taking them i.e spaceage of dosages e.t.c.... I am still 18 does this matter???

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-04-2006, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by G-Force

i will try the powder at a higher dose - ive got really bad knees too, so i hope it helps like it did with you

Im sure it will

Originally Posted by BIGPHIL

Im using VITAMIN C as Ascorbic acid 1000mg
with:-
citrus bioflavonoids 25mg
Rose hips 20 mg

I am going to take 8 grams daily and see how this affects me that means 8 tablets..any good reccomendations about taking them i.e spaceage of dosages e.t.c.... I am still 18 does this matter???

1 gram each hour or 2grams every other hour or so. Something like that is a good spacing. Age wont matter

**joeybenz** · 01-04-2006, 05:43 PM

I tried the NOW brand sodium ascorbat and it screwed my stomach up any of you guys have that same problem

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-05-2006, 03:15 AM

joeybenz screwed up in what way??? if I take a huge dosage of sodium ascorbate I get stomach pains and gas like a mofo.

**joeybenz** · 01-05-2006, 09:10 AM

yeah I get really bad gas pains i tried to split the dose up for 5x within a day but It didn't work after the 2nd dose my stomach started killing me so I stop using it

**swingbatta** · 01-05-2006, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by joeybenz

I tried the NOW brand sodium ascorbat and it screwed my stomach up any of you guys have that same problem

I have been taking the NOW sodium ascorbate for about a week adn a half. I started with 8g and have worked up to 12g without any side effects. i guess some people just have a lower tolerance for the stuff.

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-05-2006, 03:25 PM

joey try to switch to ascorbic acid instead

**joeybenz** · 01-05-2006, 03:29 PM

Is there any type of dose I should keep it at and do you recommend a brand--I'm looking at the NOW brand

**operationgetbig** · 01-05-2006, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by joeybenz

Is there any type of dose I should keep it at and do you recommend a brand--I'm looking at the NOW brand

what dose? from what im reading it seems like u guys are saying anywhere from 8-12 grams. am i right?

**KingJames23** · 01-05-2006, 06:36 PM

ya around there.. Johan says he takes up to 20 grams some days, Ive been taking this for the last couple days and i feal great. Great information JOHAN!!!!

**Pro_built7** · 01-06-2006, 06:23 PM

so thats 15000 mg right?

**fight_prof** · 01-08-2006, 02:45 AM

Great read, very interesting!

Johan, I want to try this out as I fight pro MMA and work a fulltime job, and quite frankly, I'm a high strung individual. Normally I take 1 Gram of Vit C a day in addition to my food and think I'm supplementing enough, ha!

Couple questions:

1) Have there been any studies on mega-dosing and helping injuries quicker? I have a couple nagging injuries that I have tried to speed up to no avail!

2) I will attempt 5 grams for the next few days, 500 mg every hour for 10 hours or so. I will be using chewables of standard A-Acid. Any probs with this you see?

3) How long before I feel some difference going from the 1 gm to the 5 gm?

4) In terms of long term use, how long have you been taking your heavy doses?

5) Do you cycle, lower dose, or cut out completely for a certain amount of time ever? As far as you know are there any long term dangers? I've read studies that say its great and articles that say it'll damage your DNA! Your thoughts??

Sorry bout all the questions, but this sounds like something that could help my ridiculous cortisol/stress levels.... I just hear a lot of fear-media out there about Vit C!

Thanks very much,

FP

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-08-2006, 04:29 AM

hey bro

1. Not many big studies have been done, but there is alot of personal experience from docs that use it on patiens. The best referenced source of info on vitamin c is without a doubt the books "Vitamin c, Curing the incurable" by dr Tom Levy (http://www.tomlevymd.com/) or
"Ascorbate the science of vitamin c" this second one can be downloaded for 6 bucks and its well worth it
http://www.lulu.com/content/55277

When I get home in a few days I will dig up some studies and post for you bro. I got all my links at my home computer.

2. None at all unless the chweables contain any wierd filler. But its unlikely

3. I dont think you will feel much of a difference. I "notice" things when I go to 15 grams and above. Especialy the extra energy and some extra vascularity and less soreness after workouts. 5 grams should help with joints that should be noticablke after a few weeks.

4. I have been taking 15 grams or more now for around 7-8 months I recon.

5. Some days and weeks I just forget about it so thats my natural low dosage periods

The dna damage claim was not true. If you go to linus pauling institute http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/nswltrmain.html and dig around a bit you will find 2 articles showing why the claim was wrong. If you dont find them Il dig them up.

If you got more questions hit me up with them

There is ALOT of bad info on vitamin c out there. Mostly from docs unfortunaly. Docs that isnt at all specialised on orthomolecular medicine and shouldnt even spread false info. Many porely designed studies have been done to try and disprove vitamin c claims aswell.

**PowerHouse555** · 01-08-2006, 08:07 AM

Hey Johan where do u get your bulk Vit-C from.......Thanks

**powerliftmike** · 01-08-2006, 09:48 AM

Outrageous dosages of vit c may lead to diarrhea and an increase risk for kidney stones.

**fight_prof** · 01-08-2006, 12:19 PM

Thanks Johan!

I feel a bit of a cold coming on so now's as good a time as any to experiment.

What about the Ester-C vitamins? I'm hearing mixed discussions regarding it. Many say to stick with standard Vitamin C.

Also, so the "natural low dosage" periods of yours, does your immune system just crash or are you just like anyone else at that time.. meaning, has it become a crutch for your immune system.

I think, from a political/financial standpoint, the people endorsing vitamin c have much less reason to really back it than those against it. Main reason is that Vitamin C is dirt cheap, and I don't think we're going to all of a sudden see a rapid increase in pricing for Vitamin C as we have Caesin protein, and other supplements. If it were true that long term benefits can be obtained and maintained, then other 'groups' might have problems with it. Ya, conspiracy theory I know! =P

Thanks very much for your help thus far! Like I said, the amount of cortisol running through my body is absurd, yes I should learn to relax, and I'm trying!

FP

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-08-2006, 12:49 PM

Mike vitamin c doesnt increase risk for kidney stones. That idea got started since vitamin c increases levels of oxalic acid and oxalic acid can cause kidney stones by forming. But for oxalic acid to become oxalate the urine ph need to be at a certain level(cant remember what it was) and consuming vitamin c always makes the urine more acidic than that so the oxalic acid can never form oxalate. Studies have acctualy show that those in the population that eat the most vitamin c has the least kidney stones.

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-08-2006, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by fight_prof

Thanks Johan!

I feel a bit of a cold coming on so now's as good a time as any to experiment.

What about the Ester-C vitamins? I'm hearing mixed discussions regarding it. Many say to stick with standard Vitamin C.

Also, so the "natural low dosage" periods of yours, does your immune system just crash or are you just like anyone else at that time.. meaning, has it become a crutch for your immune system.

I think, from a political/financial standpoint, the people endorsing vitamin c have much less reason to really back it than those against it. Main reason is that Vitamin C is dirt cheap, and I don't think we're going to all of a sudden see a rapid increase in pricing for Vitamin C as we have Caesin protein, and other supplements. If it were true that long term benefits can be obtained and maintained, then other 'groups' might have problems with it. Ya, conspiracy theory I know! =P

Thanks very much for your help thus far! Like I said, the amount of cortisol running through my body is absurd, yes I should learn to relax, and I'm trying!

FP

ester c is good but WAY to expensive for me to be able to afford it. When mega dosing its best to just go with the cheapest imo.

My imune system doesnt crash. But lowering dosage from 15 grams down to nothing imidielty isnt good since the body continues to get rid of vitamin c in the same rate for a few days. So dosage should be tappered down. I never realy go below 5 grams/day though.

lol yeah I defenetly think medical companies are doing there damndest to make sure the benefits of vitamins arent spread to much. I mean its no suprise they tried to push for vitamins to become prescription based here in the EU. Vitamins can replace or aid medicine in many cases.

If you want to throw a big punch at the cortisol pm giantz on this site and ask him about a new cortisol supressing supplement. I cant remember its name but he knows for sure.

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-08-2006, 12:54 PM

powerhouse I buy it from swedish pharmacies

**spywizard** · 01-08-2006, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by wolfyEVH

found some interesting things on vitamin c...

"I noticed that it was not entirely clear that the dramatic effects are always with ascorbic acid orally and sodium ascorbate intravenously. I have not been able to achieve the ascorbate effect with mineral ascorbates orally. Mineral ascorbates are fine forms of vitamin C but when you are really sick, the mitochondria are failing in their refueling of the free radical scavengers with electrons. The ascorbic acid carries 2 extra electrons per molecule where the mineral ascorbates seem to carry only one (plus per molecule the mineral ascorbates are heavier due to the mineral weighing more than the hydrogen the mineral replaces). So the mineral ascorbates are not potent enough to accomplish the ascorbate effect. There may be other reasons that we do not appreciate additionally. " - Robert Cathcart, MD.

also there is a difference in ascorbic acids.....

http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/vitaminc.htm

this article states that the l-ascorbic acid is the only beneficial form, and the d-ascorbic is just a waste.....so i go looking for bulk powder online and i see this site....

http://www.msm-msm.com/bulkaa.html

as you can see they sell it for 10bucks a pound, but look at the last sentence, "Please note that this item is not L-ascorbic acid"

http://www.bizrate.com/buy/superfind...8,sfsk--1.html

list of powder sources for l-ascorbic acid

**spywizard** · 01-08-2006, 01:36 PM

5 lbs $45

http://www.msm-msm.com/store/agora.c...scorbic%20Acid

not indorsing anyone.. just what i found

**spywizard** · 01-08-2006, 01:43 PM

wow.. found this one too..

http://www.iherb.com/sodium.html

just read through most of the thread now.. good job..

**oldman** · 01-08-2006, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by spywizard

5 lbs $45

http://www.msm-msm.com/store/agora.c...scorbic%20Acid

not indorsing anyone.. just what i found

WOW I did not even think to post this one but I will have to put in my 2 cents for this one.. Kerry is the owner of this company and he is a good guy. Very honest and I have bought from him before and he has the integrity you look for when doing business with someone.

Oldman

**Myka** · 01-08-2006, 04:28 PM

www. b u l k n u t r i t i o n.com

Just go to search and type ascorbate acid.

3lbs $22 Its what I have now...Brand is NOW foods...This stuff is sour!

**G-Force** · 01-09-2006, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by NewKid

www. b u l k n u t r i t i o n.com

Just go to search and type ascorbate acid.

3lbs $22 Its what I have now...Brand is NOW foods...This stuff is sour!

i used to buy from bulk nutrition but was spendinig more on shipping than the actual products - which still worked out cheaper than buying it iin the UK - then customs destroyed my 10lb bag of whey

i almost cried

wow Johan has changed his Avator
for the first time in... well ever

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-09-2006, 06:57 AM

well first time since march last year to be exact

**G-Force** · 01-09-2006, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by johan

well first time since march last year to be exact

ok
i was exagerating

**BIGPHIL** · 01-10-2006, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by G-Force

johan how much do u get your ascorbic acid powder for

ive seen it for 250g @ £13 on the net - is this good

also what are your opinions on

Vitamin C - Calcium Ascorbate Powder
Vitamin C - Sodium Ascorbate Powder
Vitamin C - Magnesium Ascorbate Powder

which ones best?

WHAT IS THE LINK FOR THIS 250G FOR 13 QUID

**spywizard** · 01-10-2006, 09:38 AM

what is a quid???

jk..

**buja** · 01-10-2006, 10:09 AM

Johan - I read earlier in the post that the Sodium Ascerbate is easier on the stomach. Is this true, I just bought a little over a months worth for the mega dosing at 15g but I am nervous about stomach pains. I was also wondering, in one of the articles you referenced it stated that the Vitamin C could lower B12. Could you supplement with injectable B12 to protect against this? THanks for al the info, great read and backup refrences.

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-10-2006, 10:24 AM

buja yes sodium ascorbate is easier since its not acidic. I have yet to figure out why 20grams of sodium ascorbate gives me stomach pain while ascorbic acid doesnt. It might be a individual thing I am not sure. If you know you dont get heart burn and acid reflux easily you can go with the ascorbic acid no problem.

supplementing with some b12 would probably be a good idea. I dont know to what extent vitamin c lowers b-12 to be honest

**oldman** · 01-10-2006, 11:14 AM

johan I need to ask a question on this.. I am taking 15grams of buffered C a day and I am actually (I think) feeling a little better already in my elbows.. I am on what 2-3 weeks now?? Anyway the only thing is I seem to spend a lot of time in the bathroom.. It is like I am on some high fiber diet... I guess my embarrassing question is this> does this high dose of VitC seem to act as a pipe cleaner to anyone else? I am in the crapper like 6-8 times a day. My stomach feels fine now that I added Prilosec back into my pill regimen.

Oldman