Quick PP/SD question

**Papi93** · 02-02-2006, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Jakspro

Scrrr, Herbal HCG??? Never heard of this, rather interesting... Any one used it?

He is an excellent post by Ntpadude (fellow member):

I take redkat myself and just 2 pills a day... after a couple weeks if you are still ON cycle, you will notice a nice return in size to your shrunken nuts. In PCT this stuff is really good, I am in PCT after 9 months of deca use at 600 mg a week and I have had the easiest PCT ever!!! Even easier then an 8 week testosterone only cycle without tongkat. There was virtually no decline in sex drive, actually it increased steadily when I missed the shot on week #1 and 3 weeks after my last test e shot I was experiencing the best sex drive I've had in a year. Grant it I started by redkat/tongkat ali about 4 months ago and stayed on steady. Now that PCT is over (no more clomid, etc) I am still going very strong, the most incredible wife gagging cum loads of my life and not only a vigorous sex drive, but the enjoyability factor while having sex is better then any "on testosterone" cycle I ever been on.

Yes while you can actually see improvements in "deca dick" in just 1 week, it really takes 1 month for your body to fully respond. I was deca dicked really bad in my 4th month on deca/test and the testosterone I took with the deca wasnt helping, balls ached and shrunk very badly. I started tongkat as last ditch effort to prevent stopping the cycle and the aches ended within 2 days of starting, balls started growing back noticably well by end of first week and sex drive and ability to maintain hard-on improved in a big way, even though I continued my deca doses for another 4 months! I have done tribulus before, tribulus doesnt seem to do anything like tongkat, but tongkat is basically your herbal HCG taken by mouth, it can and does easily overpower deca dick and ball shrinkage while on cycle. Also makes your steroids more effective by keeping down your SHBG's which deactivate testosterone and near testosterone compounds.

**Papi93** · 02-02-2006, 11:30 AM

Another good post by Ntpadude:

Tongkat ali has been proven to boost your total testosterone levels to about double if you stay on it long enough, but it also lowers your SHBG's so you get about a 440% increase in "free testosterone ".

Its also been shown to work something like HCG , in that tongkat can actually cause you to begin producing natural testosterone and continue to lower your SHBG's even if you are taking tongkat while "on" a cycle which involves deca durabolin or trenbalone. In otherwords these 2 drugs are the most powerful things to shut down your natural testosterone production, and yet tongkat can overpower this shutdown effect and get you producing again. Also makes your steroids you are taking more effective because lowering SHBG's reduces the "tollerance" effect that SHBG's do to your steroid tollerances. As we know, SHBG's bind to ALL anabolic steroids, not just testosterone, and it partially disables deca , tren , test, winstrol , etc... so tongkat ali is a cycler's best friend actually.

**Papi93** · 02-02-2006, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by sensaispike

probably 4g, which is only like 2* the dose that recomend

If you are nervous about the dose, PM TheMudman. He has regularly used trib at 4g for PCT.

**novastepp** · 02-02-2006, 12:13 PM

so if i run PP for 4 weeks, at 20 mg ED, and run it with that perfect cycle stuff, i will take 2ml nolva ED for 4 weeks too PCT, should i take anything else?

**Papi93** · 02-02-2006, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by novastepp

so if i run PP for 4 weeks, at 20 mg ED, and run it with that perfect cycle stuff, i will take 2ml nolva ED for 4 weeks too PCT, should i take anything else?

Cardiovascular support supplements.

By Bryan2:

Regarding cholesterol health (The list will be in order of effectiveness)

At the top of the list is niacin

The best form is sustained release
Next come the regular form (but be aware these two can and will cause the skin to become a flushed red for a few minutes after you take it) nothing wrong it’s just a slight side effect

There is however a version that eliminates this referred to as flush free niacin

A general dose for cholesterol health is around 1000-1500mgs daily but if using the flush free version a dose of 2000-3000 mgs is preferred as this version is slightly weaker acting.

EFAs
Are up towards the top of the list as well as they work very efficiently at cholesterol maintenance. These are referred to the Omegas 3,6,9 they are found in flax and fish oils which are most commonly used for bodybuilding purposes.

Red yeast riceDoseage:1200mg-2400mg Ed
Red yeast rice is basically fermented rice that shares the same active ingredients as the main stream prescription cholesterol lowering statins that are on the market. It is known to have a decent effect on cholesterol maintenance. However it is only beneficial to use for short periods of time such as up to 3-4 weeks before the cycle and continued throughout PCT. It should also be noted that this particular product is known to lower concentrations of COQ10 in the heart and liver so either a pre made supplement including this or additional supplementation of COQ10 at 300mg per day will be needed.

Sesathin
Sesathin is an excellent product that has many aspects that are beneficial to the bodybuilding community; one of these happens to be beneficial specifically for cholesterol maintenance and repair.

A short read up can be found at wwwdotavantlabsdotcom/main.php(dot to be replaced with a . to access)

Allicin:
An extract found in Garlic which is shown to lower blood pressure and lipid levels. It also has established reports of its ability to fight cancer. Purer forms of the extract are shown to be the best.

Policosanol:
Doseage: 10 -20 mg/day
Policosanol is made up of a blend of fatty alcohols known to be beneficial towards cholesterol maintenance. This specific supplement sometimes takes up to 3 months before full benefits start to show themselves and stacks remarkably well with EFAs producing a synergetic effect.

Fenugreek: Fenugreek is known to help tremendously during PCT for HPTA recovery but also shows some slight benefits towards lipid health.

These are the most effective supplements currently available to us bodybuilders that benefit our goals while choosing to supplement with hormonal products.

**Papi93** · 02-02-2006, 12:20 PM

Bryan2 had this to say on blood pressure:

Another negative side effect that usually befalls the common steroid user is elevated blood pressure and this can be a very serious side effect!!!

However ther are as well certain suppliments that can help

First thing that comes to mind is

Hawthorne Berry
Doseage 1500mg-2000mg ed

This does a decent job at lowering blood pressure

Celery Seed extract
A powerful anti-oxidant, shown to not only lower blood pressure, but may have cancer fighting properties as well. Also there is evidence to show its ability in aiding the liver.

This can be used year round, or saved for an extra punch to control Blood Pressure during cycle.

**sensaispike** · 02-02-2006, 12:36 PM

so should i just save the trib for pct papi? would that be the best method?

**Papi93** · 02-02-2006, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by sensaispike

so should i just save the trib for pct papi? would that be the best method?

I would because you are running an AI during PCT this will help with any possible gyno problems from trib at a high dose.

**novastepp** · 02-02-2006, 12:57 PM

thanks for the info pops, but im taking a good amount of EFA's in my diet along with B-complex twice ED...so with that in mind, maybe a pb supp and that's it?

**Papi93** · 02-02-2006, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by novastepp

thanks for the info pops, but im taking a good amount of EFA's in my diet along with B-complex twice ED...so with that in mind, maybe a pb supp and that's it?

I'd start a thread with your cycle and your PCT. Members can critique it and let you know if you could make any improvements. Looks good so far. Keep us updated. Good luck.

**novastepp** · 02-02-2006, 01:13 PM

Thanks Papi...

**Papi93** · 02-02-2006, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by novastepp

Thanks Papi...

Anytime.

**sensaispike** · 02-10-2006, 07:42 AM

i am at about 1 week, up 4-5lbs and have been geting drymouth, will post more later

**Papi93** · 02-10-2006, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by sensaispike

i am at about 1 week, up 4-5lbs and have been geting drymouth, will post more later

How's your strength doing? I noticed amazing strength gains during that first week.

**sensaispike** · 02-10-2006, 10:56 AM

yea strength is through the roof, yester day i was squating 365 for reps with good form, which is good for me, than i went on to rep out 1205 on leg press with good form, so the strength is awsom.... love this stuff

**Papi93** · 02-10-2006, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by sensaispike

yea strength is through the roof, yester day i was squating 365 for reps with good form, which is good for me, than i went on to rep out 1205 on leg press with good form, so the strength is awsom.... love this stuff

I noticed that my strength started to plateau after the second week. Let me know if this happens to you.

**sensaispike** · 02-10-2006, 06:57 PM

will do!

**Papi93** · 02-13-2006, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by sensaispike

will do!

Thanks. I have just 5 days left on Phera Plex. I'll post my results, next week Monday.

**sensaispike** · 02-13-2006, 10:29 AM

cool, cant wait to see them, how long are you gonna wait before your next one? Time on/time off or longer?

**Papi93** · 02-13-2006, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by sensaispike

cool, cant wait to see them, how long are you gonna wait before your next one? Time on/time off or longer?

At least time on equals time off. I was told that:

4 weeks PP, 4 weeks PCT, and 4 weeks natural is the best way to go for being safe with the orals. Not sure if I can wait that long though

.

**sensaispike** · 02-13-2006, 10:37 AM

yea i hear you i am about mid point in my first one and i am allready thinking about my next one!

**Papi93** · 02-13-2006, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by sensaispike

yea i hear you i am about mid point in my first one and i am allready thinking about my next one!

M1T?

**sensaispike** · 02-13-2006, 10:44 AM

no PP

**Papi93** · 02-13-2006, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by sensaispike

no PP

Same here. I thinking of running 20mg ED for the first two weeks and going with 30mg ED for last two weeks (this is where I had plateau problems).

**Milky87** · 02-13-2006, 06:18 PM

Did you reajust your calorie intake to accomidate for the extra muscle you are building?

**Papi93** · 02-14-2006, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by Milky87

Did you reajust your calorie intake to accomidate for the extra muscle you are building?

I've have increased my calories but ended up storing extra water and/or fat.

**novastepp** · 02-14-2006, 12:35 PM

disregard this...

**Papi93** · 02-14-2006, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Milky87

Did you reajust your calorie intake to accomidate for the extra muscle you are building?

I'm thinking for my next cycle, go with 20mg ED for 2 weeks and 30mg ED for the last two weeks. What do you think?

**novastepp** · 02-14-2006, 12:49 PM

papi, what are your stats?

**Milky87** · 02-16-2006, 10:49 PM

I think you sohuld have good results

**Papi93** · 02-17-2006, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by novastepp

papi, what are your stats?

6 feet tall and over 200lbs.

**Papi93** · 02-17-2006, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Milky87

I think you sohuld have good results

That's what I will do for my next PP cycle. Thanks!

**III** · 02-17-2006, 12:09 PM

bump

**novastepp** · 02-17-2006, 04:31 PM

Papi, i have some good Trib a buddy gave me but i only have enough for 2.5 g ED for 2 weeks, can i run this when i up my PP to 30mg ED? i wouldn't see how it would hurt since all im taking "on" is perfect cycle, PP, Hawthorn, Vit. C and B-complex...
I'm cool right?

**sensaispike** · 02-19-2006, 09:59 AM

hay here is an idea, seeing as how your gains stoped at about 2 weeks, what about doing 2 week on rather than 4? one bottle would last you longer and you could get results the entire time you are on!... just a thought...

L8ter

**sensaispike** · 02-19-2006, 07:21 PM

yo papi... did you get mad lower back pumps with the pp, cus i am geting them really bad....

**novastepp** · 02-19-2006, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by novastepp

Papi, i have some good Trib a buddy gave me but i only have enough for 2.5 g ED for 2 weeks, can i run this when i up my PP to 30mg ED? i wouldn't see how it would hurt since all im taking "on" is perfect cycle, PP, Hawthorn, Vit. C and B-complex...
I'm cool right?

hey Sensaispike, i don't know where Papi is, but what do you think about this? seeing as we are all on PP...

**sensaispike** · 02-19-2006, 10:31 PM

i would just save it if i were you and take it with pct.... i had asked about taking my trib with the pp and i was told i should just save it for pct, so i am just passing that info along to you, i would like more input from others on this though, because i think there might be some benefit to taking it with the pp....

**Jakspro** · 02-19-2006, 11:02 PM

What i'm gonna do is take TongKat, for the last 3 weeks (I'm planning a 6 weeker, with the last 4 weeks being a Methyl Compound, dont know which one yet) and then running that and some good Trib durring PCT...

So i say run TongKat for your last 2 weeks all the way till 2 weeks after PCT, to ensure full recovery, and Trib starting at PCT till 2 weeks after...