How do natural testosterone supplements lower a man's testosterone and libido levels?

They say Boron helps the absorption of vitamin D by 30%..
Some studies have shown that taking Boron increased Free Testosterone after 4 weeks of supplemental Boron by 29% and
DHEA levels had a 50% increase
Fenugreek is good too, some figured give a 40% increase in testosterone.. virtually no side-effects
then DIM lowers your estrogen levels allowing free testosterone to climb up
Tribulus Terrestris increases your testosterone by 327%?

I was taking Fenugreek and Vitamin D and I felt my sex drive was low... I think this happened before as well when I was taking horny goat weed and ginkgo biloba...

It doesnt make sense.. isnt this stuff suppose to increase your test levels and your labido level? What the hell is it doing to my body?

I'm planning on getting the following
Ashwagandha
Boron
Tongkat Ali
dim
Fenugreek
Zink
Magnesium
Ginsing

Libido isn't just about testosterone. Test is just a piece of the puzzle.
Boron reportedly can improve D as noted and T possibly by impacting shbg.
DHEA can but it can also increase E2. Your body will decide where it shunts exogenous dhea so you may get the desired effect or you may not.
Fenugreek can increase T by virtue of impeding the 5-AR enzyme that turns T into DHT. Thus "a little" more T.
DIM-minimal effect but yes.
Tribulus - no clue where that number came from but most studies I've read show virtually no increase in T levels.

To answer your question "what's it doing to my body"? Answer is nothing other than wasting your money. Stick to optimizing your Vit D and low dose daily cialis. If issued continue pull full BW and go from there. imho.

^^^this

You can't expect any significant increase in T from natural supplements.
If you lower or block the actions of estrogens (something one could speculate that some natural supplements does),
then that will increase T somewhat.

IMO there's 3 ways a drug can increase T:
-lower estrogen; estrogen inhibit T production by negative feedback in pituitary/hypothalamus
-directly stimulate pituitary: acts like an LH/FSH analog
-inhibit androgen action in pituitary; like inhibiting 5-AR thus decreasing DHT

While some natural supplements may do this to a small degree,
you won't really get much of an effect IMO.

Theoretically you might get an effect for hours to a day,
but no supplements will keep T raised over any significant time span IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kelkel

Libido isn't just about testosterone. Test is just a piece of the puzzle.
Boron reportedly can improve D as noted and T possibly by impacting shbg.
DHEA can but it can also increase E2. Your body will decide where it shunts exogenous dhea so you may get the desired effect or you may not.
Fenugreek can increase T by virtue of impeding the 5-AR enzyme that turns T into DHT. Thus "a little" more T.
DIM-minimal effect but yes.
Tribulus - no clue where that number came from but most studies I've read show virtually no increase in T levels.

To answer your question "what's it doing to my body"? Answer is nothing other than wasting your money. Stick to optimizing your Vit D and low dose daily cialis. If issued continue pull full BW and go from there. imho.

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Cialis is supposed to raise test levels a bit?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Couchlockd

Cialis is supposed to raise test levels a bit?

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I'll check some studies about this.
Kel should know.
I doubt it's anything much or prolonged though.

It's like; if you stay in the company of women you feel attracted to,
that may raise your T levels. But I doubt you get a prolonged increase in T that has any myotrophic effect.

On the other hand, blocking estrogen in the pituitary raises T quite a lot.
SERMs like nolva do this.
And we are taking perhaps a 200% increase.
But I still wouldn't use nolva as a PED in itself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kelkel

Libido isn't just about testosterone. Test is just a piece of the puzzle.
Boron reportedly can improve D as noted and T possibly by impacting shbg.
DHEA can but it can also increase E2. Your body will decide where it shunts exogenous dhea so you may get the desired effect or you may not.
Fenugreek can increase T by virtue of impeding the 5-AR enzyme that turns T into DHT. Thus "a little" more T.
DIM-minimal effect but yes.
Tribulus - no clue where that number came from but most studies I've read show virtually no increase in T levels.

To answer your question "what's it doing to my body"? Answer is nothing other than wasting your money. Stick to optimizing your Vit D and low dose daily cialis. If issued continue pull full BW and go from there. imho.

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What are the other pieces of the puzzle for labido?

Some people are under the impression that testosterone levels and labido are almost the same thing...

I felt many times my test levels shoot up.. how did I know? I was feeling angry and energized as hell for no reason... and I wouldn't even be thinking about my labido.. had almost no interest

At other times when I was taking Horny goat weed, Korean ginseng, Tribulus and longjack... it worked for a few days or a week or so... but then it stopped working and I felt I went into a deficit.. meaning my labido was naturally higher before I started taking this stuff...

So I'm wondering what the hell is going on... do I need to cycle these natural supplement products like 3 days on and 2 days off or something so my body doesn't get used to them?!?!?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hustler101

What are the other pieces of the puzzle for labido?

Some people are under the impression that testosterone levels and labido are almost the same thing...

I felt many times my test levels shoot up.. how did I know? I was feeling angry and energized as hell for no reason... and I wouldn't even be thinking about my labido.. had almost no interest

At other times when I was taking Horny goat weed, Korean ginseng, Tribulus and longjack... it worked for a few days or a week or so... but then it stopped working and I felt I went into a deficit.. meaning my labido was naturally higher before I started taking this stuff...

So I'm wondering what the hell is going on... do I need to cycle these natural supplement products like 3 days on and 2 days off or something so my body doesn't get used to them?!?!?

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Ok, these supplements are basically crap for raising T.
So don't expect much of that.

Horny goat weed might be a PDE inhibitor and thus help with erections,
but if so, it's quite mild.

What other factors affect libido?

-dopamine and serotonin are two major monoamines involved,
hence why you see a relation between drugs of abuse and sex.
But it isn't as simple as high levels equal high libido.

-estrogen plays a role; both positive and negative

And a lot of other stuff, many not understood yet.

But generally I'd say that if androgen levels are high and you take something that increase dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin, then that increases libido. Problem is, you got to be careful about shit that does that.

DBOL seem to increase synthesis of dopamine and serotonin,
and as long as T is up it will usually increase libido.

But this is complex shit really.

There's not much in terms of supplements that can aid you here.
Small doses of Yohimbe if you tolerate it maybe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DocToxin8

What other factors affect libido?

-dopamine and serotonin are two major monoamines involved,
hence why you see a relation between drugs of abuse and sex.
But it isn't as simple as high levels equal high libido.

-estrogen plays a role; both positive and negative

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To expand a little (not for Doc as he knows) the sudden influx of dopamine and seratonin at the onset of a testosterone cycle gives guys a big boost in arousal / libido, etc. Problem is guys expect it to stay this way but it won't. The body slowly adapts to it and finds it's new (albeit temporary) normal.

Other pieces of the puzzle are simple really. Hormone balance, lifestyle, stress, overall health, a hot partner....


**Re Cialis elevating test levels it does by virtue of impacting (lowering) estrogen levels slightly. I've posted studies on this before and can again here if anyone likes. Chalk another one up for one of my favorite supps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kelkel

To expand a little (not for Doc as he knows) the sudden influx of dopamine and seratonin at the onset of a testosterone cycle gives guys a big boost in arousal / libido, etc. Problem is guys expect it to stay this way but it won't. The body slowly adapts to it and finds it's new (albeit temporary) normal.

Other pieces of the puzzle are simple really. Hormone balance, lifestyle, stress, overall health, a hot partner....


**Re Cialis elevating test levels it does by virtue of impacting (lowering) estrogen levels slightly. I've posted studies on this before and can again here if anyone likes. Chalk another one up for one of my favorite supps.

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Yeah post those studies, it be appriciated.
So when the body adapts and finds its new normal, you'll need to be taking these supplements just to stay at normal...
Then when you off the supplements, you'll actually be low until the body slowly readjusts (1 week - 1 month) your natural labido levels.

Its deffinately been the case when I was taking horny goat weed, yohumbine, Korean ginseng... the effects of high labido lasted for 1 - 2 weeks...

And right now I just ordered those other 9 new ingredients which I mentioned earlier... my only concern is doing the guess work on how it's going to impact my T-levels and my Labido as well as the length of the boosting effects...

I'm thinking of trying all 9 of them (Ashwagandha, Boron, Tongkat Ali, dim, Fenugreek, Zink, Magnesium, Vitamin D, Ginsing) twice a week only... or 3 times a week... that way the body doesn't get used to them as fast... and I can stretch out the benefitial results for when I need them.

But theres always the unknown factor of how they are gonna work together in combination

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26134065

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16839328

Despite what supplement companies and their biased "studies" would have you believe... the best way to raise test is to inject test! I don't understand why people continue to buy anything the supplement companies advertise. Even if they raise your total test a couple hundred points it's not enough to make a drastic difference. The money spent would be better put towards food, vitamin D, stess management, avoiding parabens, and sleeping 7-8 hours.

I'm looking to increase my sex drive levels at this point to be honest...
Not that its low or anything but I want to get it higher... I've also been looking into staying away from BPA, and other preservatives that lower your testosterone levels.
I work out 6 times per week... yesterday I did two workouts on the same day.. and it had an effect on me this today... I felt the testosterone flowing throug my veins... althought not so much a labido boost...

I'm going to travel for a few months...
The question is how long does injecting testosterone last? Do I go on a cycle just to be a super freak in a foreign country? I'm not quite at ease with the idea of injecting steroids/testosterone to keep my sex drive high..

However I did just get 2 viles of pt-141.. heard its the thing to take.. so I will try that... hopefully it wont have any negative side effects after

Ive been reading through these forums with fascination So much information here

How does one know what supplements are needed for someone in their thirties?

I can see fish oil, glutamine, magnesium, zinc, probiotics, immune boosters, to name a few, and quite a number of other ones.

I also read in one of the posts where SB replied by saying he takes a different supplement when traveling abroad which keeps him healthy some Poniquin protocol?

Is there a super pill that some of you take or is there an economical base line for what to take?