Thread: Bull s**t
02-04-2004, 04:21 PM #1
Man... i was just at boudybuilding.com reading up on some things and it looks as thought these guies are insane... thay are taking 100+mg's of m1t at a time, for like months at a time.. that cant be healthy can it... and even worse i read this one thread by a 13 year old and he was talking about that size dosage...what the hell is wrong with those people...and get this some one told him to hit the juce.....jesus crist the kid is 13...... he was talking about catching butterflys for christ sakes...... does any else find this strange or is it just me.... i do however realise that this is the supplement forum so my question is with dosages that high is it not safe to say that they are going to have sides out the a**?... Just wanted to share...
02-04-2004, 06:30 PM #2
1-Testosterone is the active ingredient in Methyl 1-Test of course, and the effective dose for 1-Testosterone is 300-500mg per day. So taking 100mg or more at a time is what you need in order to really see the results, but at that level, you are effectively taking a low level steroid .
Marketers say that 1-Testosterone can't be aromatized into estrogen and it doesn't shut down testicular testosterone production, but I don't believe they ever tested it at 500mg per day, they only tested it at 50-100mg per day. So you would have to take measures to protect yourself from side effects just like you do with taking steroids .
As far as taking for months at a time.........Taking it for two months is okay and should probably be the longest that you take it, but I could see a person pushing it to three months.
Basically, all of the same rules apply to 1-testosterone as they do to anabolic testosterone.
02-04-2004, 08:21 PM #3
so i have been missed informed then....i was told to run m1t at 10-20mg a day for no more than 4weeks...... i just wish i could get the real info because i have the m1t the nolva and the clomid i just need to know what is the best way to run it...so please help......
02-04-2004, 08:29 PM #4
4 weeks is good, but I would probably say at least 4 weeks, especially if you have clomid and nolva. With the anti-estragens I would say to do 8-10 weeks. 10-20mg isn't going to be nearly enough. I had a site a few months back that gave the effective dosages of pretty much every prohormone out there and I din't remember what it is. But I do remember that the 1-testosterone is like 500mg per day. But if you're like 18 or 19, I would probably say to stick with 10-20mg. If you're over 21, then 500mg per day.
02-04-2004, 08:52 PM #5
what about 20...is that close enough....... by the way what is the best way to run the clomid and nolva??? its just so **** frustrating...every whare i go i get told different things..... i just want to get it right....
02-04-2004, 09:12 PM #6
A couple months ago I did a really good response regarding Clomid and Nolva. I'll see if I can find it and post it here.
02-04-2004, 09:24 PM #7
This is a copy of the post I had up a couple months ago. This explains a little bit about how the anti-estrogens work and gives an example for someone that was going on a steroid cycle. You should be able to figure out everything you need to know from this info.....
Both Nolvadex and Clomid are anti-estrogens, or more accurately, estrogen receptor antagonists. They attach to estrogen receptors and keep the estrogen from binding to your cells. There are different estrogen receptors in the body and they can cause different effects. Nolvadex targets breast tissue and prevents gynecomastia . Clomid prevents testicular shrinkage and gets your body to start producing it's own testosterone again. So, you should really be taking both anti-estrogens at the same time after your cycle. Since you're taking Sustanon 250, you should take both Clomid and Nolvadex for four weeks after your cycle, because Sust stays in your system longer than something like Dbol . Nolvex 20mg per day and Clomid 50 mg per day for a month should be good for you.
You may also want to take an aromatase inhibitor like Teslac , Arimidex or Cytadren . Teslac, Arimidex and Cytadren keep your body from converting excess testosterone into estrogen.
Estrogen rises post cycle because while on cycle, you're putting a synthetic testosterone into your system and your body tries to maintain a ratio of testosterone/estrogen, something like 100/1. As you put more testosterone in your body, your body produces more estrogen to keep things even and balanced. Once you stop putting the testosterone into your system, it takes a little while for your body to figure out that it has to stop producing so much estrogen. Your body also tends to convert excess testosterone into estrogen to try to maintain that balance, so you can get the effects of gyno WHILE you're on your cycle. Because of what I already explained, it's not true, your body can produce estrogen without the presence of testosterone. The male human body produces testosterone and estrogen and the female human body produces estrogen and progesterone. The body doesn't need one to produce the other, but it does try to maintain a balance of both.
Nolva, Arimadex and Clomid all do different things. You wouldn't need to take the aramatase inhibitor like arimadex, but you would still need the Nolva and the Clomid to combat the gyno and to get your own test production up and running again.
02-04-2004, 09:28 PM #8
Oh yeah, about being 20. If you think you're done growing (if you're taller than the average male in your family, you're probably done growing).
02-04-2004, 10:01 PM #9
see that is the thing though..... i have not gotten any taller sence i was 12
02-04-2004, 10:01 PM #10
Let me set this straight
M1T isnt 1-test
It is a 17 carbon methylation of 1-test
Methylation change any steroids characteristics (look at test vs. methyl-test)
This alteration is illegal but is being produced under a loophole which will not last long. For now you can get it over the net.
M1T is very anabolic , and has harsh side effects.
At 20mg/day your getting 140mg a week of m1t, not much to look at but very effective dosage, as far as empiracle data has shown. At higher dose heavy lethergy, appetite supression, and loss of libido increase.
Also M1t appears to be very repressive of the HPTA axis (natural test production).
AGAIN, it is very sad that idiots (especially young ones) are ABUSING M1T by using improperly.
02-05-2004, 02:21 AM #11
Bump to Umberto.
JESUS CHRIST DBarcello, M1T != 1-testosterone .
Dianabol is a methylated Equipose, are they the same thing? No!
If you run 100-200mg a day you will be in the hospital with severe liver damage! 10-20mg ED MAX for a first cycle.
Be careful of the advice you give out, you could kill someone.
02-05-2004, 06:24 AM #12
thanks MMC78 finaly some stright answers..... now it is ok to stay at 10-20 for up to 4 weeks right???then nolva and clomid for pct, dose anyone know what amount to run the nolva and clomid at...
Originally Posted by MMC78
02-05-2004, 11:40 AM #13Originally Posted by MMC78
Yes, M1T is 1-Testosterone. And I don't that much about steroids , but if Dianabol and Equipose are what I think they are, then yes, they are the same thing. The difference isn't the active anabolic compound, but in the aditive used to get your body to be able to absorb it better (get past the liver without being destroyed).
Methyl-1-Testosterone just has an aditive in it that's supposed to allow the body to absorb more of the 1-Testosterone. T-Bomb uses an "Enteric Coating" that's supposed to help the 1-Testosterone get absorbed better.
And I don't believe the Methyl-1-Test additive will cause any damage to the liver, but I will look into it to make sure. So, if I'm correct about that, then taking 100-200mg per day won't cause any damage. Taking 1g per day would be dangerous though.
And I am pretty careful about what advice I give to people. If I said 1 gram per day, that would be crazy.
02-05-2004, 12:12 PM #14
I did a little looking into the additive used in M1T. They use the same thing that's used in some steroids to allow the drug to get past the liver. That means you don't need to take as much to get the same amount in your system. The 17-aa used can be dangerous in high dosages over a long period of time. If you have an existing liver problem, the 17-aa can agrivate it. If there is no liver problem pre-existing, then you can get away with between 500-900mg per day for 8 weeks (dependent on your body weight).
Because it has the 17-aa, I would change the 500mg per day and lower my suggestion to no more than 250mg per day because your body can absorb more of the 1-Testosterone than it could without the 17-aa.
If you're worried about side effects or your sensativity to it, then start off with 5mg, the 10mg, then 20mg, exc. until you reach a good effective dose.
And as a side note, you would have to abuse drugs with 17-aa for years before you would end up in the hospital because of it.
02-05-2004, 03:34 PM #15
Are you ****ting me?!? 500-900mg a day of Dbol or M1t and you'd need a transplant. Do me a favor and try that dosage for 8 weeks, let us know how you are.
Methylating a compound changes more than the delivery method. It affects the compounds properties in a fundamental way. I can't understand how you beleive that DBol and EQ are the same. Dianabol and boldenone (Equipose) have different Anabolic /Androgenic profiles and do not produce the same effects.
Sensaispike, I would start with a 2 week cycle of 10-20mg a day, just to see how your body is going to respond. Maybe 4 weeks for the next cycle if all goes well. Make sure to have Nolva and Clomid on hand for PCT. Good luck, and keep us posted.
02-05-2004, 03:54 PM #16New Member
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Hey MMC78,you seem to know your stuff on this M1T.Im trying to find out the best stack regimen I should go with.Also is it necessary to take clomid or nolva PC......could I just take 6-OXO and get simular effects?
02-05-2004, 05:58 PM #17
Use real PCT, 6-oxo isn't strong enough for this kind of androgen. Most people stack m1t with a 4ad transdermal. The extra test offsets the lethargy and appetite supression associated with m1t.
02-05-2004, 06:15 PM #18
they call the stuff Methal 1-Test, but all they do is add 17-aa to the 1-test so it can survive the liver pass. The 17-aa has always been thought to be very dangerous to the liver, but recent studies suggest that it's not quite as dangerous as we think.
I said I don't know much about steroids , and IF IT'S WHAT I THINK IT IS. I can look into that also.
02-05-2004, 07:04 PM #19
I went around and picked little pieces of info from here and there......
If we consider the power of 1-Test like a 400 horsepower engine, then understand that M 1-T is the equivalent of that same engine with twin turbochargers added on! By methylating the 1-Test molecule we have a compound that is extremely resistant to first pass liver degradation and therefore incredibly bioavailable. The challenge with PH/PS is not having too much of the active compounds deactivated by the liver. Now, with M 1-T, this problem has been overcome.
Methyl 1-testosterone , or 17aa-1-testosterone, is the methylated version of the steroid 1-testosterone. This structural modification makes steroids much more orally bioavailable by inhibiting breakdown in the liver.
Weíve been told for years that if you take 17 alpha-alkylated steroids, you will eventually run into liver problems. Never combine 17 aaís, never go beyond 50mg day, never go longer than 4 weeks, etc. All of this is crap! As I we walk you through some studies, today, youíll see 17 alpha-alkylated steroids can be hepatotoxic but not to the degree you would think.
As for human studies, in 1999 researchers tried to prove that the hepatotoxicity of steroids is overstated....Clin J Sport Med 1999 Jan;9(1):34-9, Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: is it overstated? Dickerman RD, Pertusi RM, Zachariah NY, Dufour DR, McConathy WJ.
After a three-month drug withdrawal, the researchers showed that levels of liver enzymes, types not mentioned, returned to the same as the non users.
So what can we conclude from all of this? First off, 17 alpha-alkylated steroids are hepatotoxic in high dosages taken for a long time. On the other hand, short cycles and small dosages appear to be perfectly safe. I suggest that maximum dosages should be 500mg to 900mg per day. They should be cycled for perhaps 8 weeks at a time, and if needed a 3-month break from them should be used. Using the above-mentioned techniques, your liver can be healthy for a long time. Simply put, the hysteria surrounding ďhepatoxicĒ steroids, is based mainly on folk lore.
Since Dianabol is I 7-alpha alky-lated it causes a considerable strain on the liver. In high dosages and over a longer period of time, Dianabol is liver-toxic.
Even a dosage of only 10 mg/day can increase the liver values; after discontinu-ance of the drug, however, the values return to normal.
02-05-2004, 08:47 PM #20New Member
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So your saying I dont need anything for anti-e if I do something like 40mg a day for two weeks?I seem to be having trouble finding clomid or nolva.
02-05-2004, 08:55 PM #21
You should take an anti estrogen. You can try 6-OXO. I don't know how good it works, but it's better than nothing at all.
02-06-2004, 12:14 PM #22Junior Member
Originally Posted by German
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02-06-2004, 07:02 PM #23New Member
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Pestis can you PM me about a web site?
02-08-2004, 08:18 AM #24
Why you should use an anti-estrogen if the compound doesn't convert to estrogen. There shouldn't be an negative feetback of the estrogen, because there won't be high levels.
Shouldend it be better to use an LH booster post cycle and combine it with ZMA to optimize natural testosteron levels?
What do you think to use this as an postcycle:
Week 1-2 3 caps 2 times a day
Week 1-4 3 caps before bedtime
02-08-2004, 10:49 AM #25
1) Just because they say it doesn't convert to estrogen doesn't mean that it really wont.
2) Your body tends to pump out more estrogen in response to more testosterone being in your body.
3) Excess testosterone can be converted into estrogen.
From what I remember, ZMA doesn't boost testosterone levels , it boosts GH levels.
02-08-2004, 06:06 PM #26
So for like a 2 week cycle of m1t what would be good dosses or nolva and clomid for pct??
02-08-2004, 11:04 PM #27LM1332 Guest
13 year old one was a joke i read it.
02-09-2004, 05:37 AM #28Originally Posted by sensaispike
When you're gonna use nolva and clomid for PCT, i should do 6-8 weeks at least.
After 2 weeks your HPTA will be recoverd soon without the use of nolva and clomid, because it won't be suppresed much at a low dose.
ZMA won't boost test levels, but it will help restore natural or supprest levels.
A lack of zink will result in lower testosteron levels also, i think it's good to use ZMA in your PCT but not as the main supplement. Nolva and/or clomid are importand restoring a positive feedback of your HPTA, wich shall be suppressed due high estrogen levels.
02-09-2004, 08:53 AM #29Originally Posted by MMC78
I would suggest he doesn't even try AAS. Read and research again and again until you know every aspect of it. Dbol is very toxic and dangerous. Be careful..
02-09-2004, 11:43 AM #30Originally Posted by daman1
The big difference is that prohormones absorb less than metalated-steroids and less is converted too 1-testosteron, so you need higher dosage too have a bit off result.
Because M1t is metalated and already 1-test without that it has to be converted, it will survive the first pass off the liver and therefore working much better.
I think Iím gonna order some bottles of M1t, and gonna try an cycle at the end of this year (because Iím gonna start a real cycle in March).
If i should use 1mt i shall start at 15 mg a week and at 5mg every week till Iíve reached a dose that will give me good gains. I shall use it for 8 weeks and use PCT with Nolva and ZMA and tribules.
How long do you think it will take before m1t gets illegal in the USA?? I think itís gonna be real fast because M1t isnít an P.H. But rather a real steroid .
02-09-2004, 12:07 PM #31
i agree with unberto.. M1T is a lot more powerfull than regular 1-Test.. the side effects seem to be a lil worse and evryone that has taken it seems to get the ame side effects like the loss od appitite and heavy lethergy where they dont want to even hit the gym cuz there so tired.. thats why they stack witht 4-AD.. as for PCT's i would not recomend getting stuff from liquidresearch.com as they just got busted by the feds.. thats the only place i kenw were to get Nolva and clomid.. does anyone know any other legid places to get it?? PM me if you know.. ASAP i just got my cycle of M1T and 4 AD and i would prefer to use Nolva instead of 6oxo or formestat
02-09-2004, 01:22 PM #32Originally Posted by bodybuildingjunkie
Last edited by daman1; 02-09-2004 at 01:26 PM.
02-09-2004, 02:05 PM #33
02-09-2004, 03:05 PM #34
So you're saying it only binds to the androgen receptor, and all of these muscle gains from m1t are ficticious.
Last edited by MMC78; 02-09-2004 at 03:22 PM.
02-09-2004, 07:18 PM #35
so i was planning to run my first m1t cycle for 2 weeks just to see how i react to it...first week at 10mg's a day second week at 20mg's a day.... pluss i have a camping trip comming up and i did not want to be on the cycle or pct and have no where to work out... but i have been told that there in no need for pct for a cycle that short and that a cycle that short will not have any good results...is this true... i would like some more imput on this matter.....thanks...
02-09-2004, 10:01 PM #36Originally Posted by sensaispike
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