Originally Posted by DBarcelo
I don't think I'm too thickheaded to not believe what someone tells me, I'm not that gullible to believe anything that anyone tells me, especially when I know better.
I've taken my fare share of chem classes (though I'm not a chemist) as well as human bio, micro bio, etc. I don't know where you get your info from. Methylating an anaboic steroid does change the way the body absorbes the base steroid by causing an androgenic effect in addition to the anabolic effect, but it's not changing the properties of the steroid itself. It SEEMS as though it's changing the properties because of the different results and the androgenic side effects that become associated with it. Alkylating a steroid isn't changing the properties or even adding another reaction like methylating does, alkylating only strengthens the bond to allow a chemical to survive the first pass through the liver.
It seems as though you believe there is an anabilic level, enzymatic level and an androgen receptor involved in the actual makeup of the molecular strand. If you alkylate an anabolic steroid, you aren't adding any androgen, it's still only an anabolic. And it's not changing the way that the anabolic agent is absorbed or used, but it does allow MORE of the anabolic to enter into the body beyond the liver. The only enzymatic change is the fact that you will get a buildup of enzymes at the liver trying to breakdown the alkylate chain (which is why people always said that you shouldn't use an alkylate for more than 6 weeks, even though we now know that the enzymes disipate and liver levels return to normal (as if you had never taken it) after a few weeks after taking an alkylate).
If you only methylate an anabolic steroid, then you're not changing anything at any androgenic level, you are ADDING an androgen. Methylate is an androgen and there are different types of methylate androgens. Once again, it's not changing the way the anabolic agent is absorbed per se, but because of the androgen, it keeps certain levels in better balance and therefore amplifies the anabolic effect. But I can see how a person would believe it's completely changing the compound because you end up with androgenic effects that you don't have when only taking the anabolic. On the enzymatic level, you are adding another compound that has to be broken down, so there are different enzymes involved with breaking the whole chain down, but it's not altering the enzymatic reaction to the original anabolic.
You still seem to believe that alkylating and methylating are one in the same. To your defense, it seems that a lot of people believe that. But that doesn't make it true.
Like I said before, just saying that it's methylated is saying anything. You already said the only difference is 17-alpha-alkylate, so the only way to change my mind is to admit that you were wrong and that there is also a methylate chain added.
You really sound like one of those people back in the 1600's that insisted that the world was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth. You present them with scientific fact and all they can say is, "well it's true, the sun does revolve around the earth, everyone knows it and the Bible says it".
I'm not saying that I'm not willing to accept the idea that it's methylated, you just haven't shown anything to back up your claim. You actually disproved yourself by saying that the only change is an 17-aa bond. If you whould have shown me a chemical compound with a methylate chain, we wouldn't be going back and forth with this for so long.