Ok...Forget M1T

**sensaispike** · 02-25-2004, 12:27 PM

Ok so i have been hearing alot of bad things about m1t, not just about the sides but allso about the lack of effectiveness. so i desided not to take it, and just stick with eating like a mad man and and taking protine. The problem being i allready bought 3 bottles of m1t and nolva and clomid. I figure i can just sell the m1t on ebay but as far as the nolva and clomid i guess i am just screwed... has anyone sold m1t on ebay was it sucessful?
any comments or suggestions??

L8ter.....

**daman1** · 02-25-2004, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by sensaispike

Ok so i have been hearing alot of bad things about m1t, not just about the sides but allso about the lack of effectiveness. so i desided not to take it, and just stick with eating like a mad man and and taking protine. The problem being i allready bought 3 bottles of m1t and nolva and clomid. I figure i can just sell the m1t on ebay but as far as the nolva and clomid i guess i am just screwed... has anyone sold m1t on ebay was it sucessful?
any comments or suggestions??

L8ter.....

i have sold supplements on e-Bay. Sell for a cheap price but jack up shipping. That's what usually works. And I think you made a wise decision on scrapping the p.h. Good luck with your diet!

**spywizard** · 02-25-2004, 01:21 PM

do a search............ you can sell (or others have)

t3 and clen .........

just a thought........

I would just keep it...........

Originally Posted by sensaispike

Ok so i have been hearing alot of bad things about m1t, not just about the sides but allso about the lack of effectiveness. so i desided not to take it, and just stick with eating like a mad man and and taking protine. The problem being i allready bought 3 bottles of m1t and nolva and clomid. I figure i can just sell the m1t on ebay but as far as the nolva and clomid i guess i am just screwed... has anyone sold m1t on ebay was it sucessful?
any comments or suggestions??

L8ter.....

**FmRommel** · 02-25-2004, 02:02 PM

I would also keep it....two essentials, youll probably need them someday...Just MO

FM

**sensaispike** · 02-25-2004, 03:50 PM

yea i guess i will just keep the nolva and clomid..you never know i might just wake up with a needle in my arm one day..ha ha..

L8ter

**K-pac** · 02-26-2004, 03:40 PM

sensaispike,
where did you hear that M1T is not effective. The stuff works better than any other ph ever made. Not only have I lost fat from it but so far I have gained 7 lbs. and counting.

just wondering,
K-pac

**sensaispike** · 02-26-2004, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by K-pac

sensaispike,
where did you hear that M1T is not effective. The stuff works better than any other ph ever made. Not only have I lost fat from it but so far I have gained 7 lbs. and counting.

just wondering,
K-pac

I have been talking to alot of people and i am hearing more bad than good, and all though it might work there are just to many sides, besides i just got asked to be on my universitys rugby team so i dont want to mess that up...(they are national champs)...but any ways i just dont think its worth it any more......pluss my gains are comming awsom right now so i dont want to mess that up....

L8ter...

LM1332 · 02-26-2004, 08:03 PM

not true from personal experience i saying this and i gained 9 pounds in a week just got to make sure you have proper diet and proper workout routine. And youll be set...as for the 2nd week use i never got to it got sick as hell

**daman1** · 02-26-2004, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by LM1332

not true from personal experience i saying this and i gained 9 pounds in a week just got to make sure you have proper diet and proper workout routine. And youll be set...as for the 2nd week use i never got to it got sick as hell

9 pounds in a fuking week bro!!!!? **** that's like 3x what I gained on Dbol , lol. Hmm...

LM1332 · 02-26-2004, 11:13 PM

no seriously dont bash something until you try it because different supplements react differently to people. SO what might work for you might not work for him. I think i just have good receptors or something lol dont know try it for yourself

**K-pac** · 02-27-2004, 08:42 AM

sensaispike,
If u r gaining good quality weight without it then I would have to agree with you. I wouldn't take it either. I wish I didn't need ph's but without them I have no edge. My girlfriend freaks out when I even bring up the idea of doing gear again. Anyways, good luck with the rugby.
Peace,
K-pac

**ENraged** · 02-27-2004, 09:03 AM

going to have to say i have loved it. but yes i bad the tightening in my back pretty bad. I also didnt have the prop detox going when i ran it tho. If you are going to be playing rugby then i wouldnt bother with it. Just eat like a horse and hit the weight room hard.

**BREASTMAN** · 02-27-2004, 12:58 PM

Ineffective? I know one guy that gained 13 lbs in 14 days from M 1-t! Yes, it can make you very tired, but I'll take the muscle while I'm yawning!

**BrokenBricks** · 02-27-2004, 01:39 PM

people dont confuse weight gain with muscle gain.
The amount of water your body can hold is massive. 10 pounds can be gained and lost in a week just in water weight alone...you cant be sure its muscle or fat untill 2 weeks into a diet/supplement change. After that period of time you can be sure aditional weight gains are actully gains.

It like trying to measure the tides but instead measuring waves. Your istantaneous weight change in no measure of true body compisition change. Think about it people.
a pound of muscle a day would mean 1600 calories extra above your BMR have been aquired. Not counting the cals burned by the workout itself. So your eating 5000 cals a day?? nope.

**OClifter** · 02-27-2004, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by sensaispike

I have been talking to alot of people and i am hearing more bad than good, and all though it might work there are just to many sides, besides i just got asked to be on my universitys rugby team so i dont want to mess that up...(they are national champs)...but any ways i just dont think its worth it any more......pluss my gains are comming awsom right now so i dont want to mess that up....

L8ter...

I never had sides and do 60mg. Not everybody has sides. You should not confuse rumors and second hand speech with fact. Not that you might not have sides, who knows?

So, don't take it.

But, why mention 'what a friend said about what his friend heard'?

Personal experiences, at least, are pseudo-scientific.

Why would anyone even read such a thread on this basis?

**lxorl** · 02-27-2004, 02:19 PM

i did 2 on and I am in my 2 off period. i was tired as hell and didnt work out extremely had during my two weeks on, but i puto n close to 5 lean lb.

**THA GONZ** · 02-27-2004, 03:18 PM

its funny to me that people who do AS and complained and have had to defend the BS rumors that people who have no Idea what they are talking about start would do the same thing to another product.
Bottom line is you'll never know until you try it. There has been no Scientific research on the long term affects of PH's or the sides and judging from the board consensus most people don't expirience side effects. Not saying no one will, but I think it is well over played. I am on it right now doing 20mg/day going on my second week and have expeirienced absolutely NO SIDES!
I have put on alittle weight about 8lbs and am alot more solid. I also have gone up about 10lbs on most exercises.
I have done 3 cycles of the real gear also and I can say this is no where close to the real stuff and I don't expect it to,but for some one who doesn't want to do the real stuff I think it is well worth the $40.
The reason why I tryed M1T is because of all the conflicting results and rumors, I wanted to find out for my self what its all about not listen to a bunch of people who like it and a bunch who don't (some of them never even having used it) fight over wether its good or not and what the sides are.
This is not a flame to any one, just stating my opinion.

Peace
Gonz

**sensaispike** · 02-27-2004, 06:46 PM

ok guys first off i did not start this thread to argue the value of ph products. i was only expressing my opinoin, yes it is true that i have not tryed m1t i was just saying that i changed my mind. besides i am in my prime i am 20 yrs old and have never had gains liks this before, so why mess with it, i mean **** i could verry possibly enter the natural comp circut verry soon so why mess with some thing that prevent me from doing that.. all i was saying was its just not for me...

L8ter

**THA GONZ** · 02-27-2004, 07:31 PM

Thats your decision bro, and a good one. Like you said why mess with stuff you don't have to. I don't think any ones post was directed at you. Good Luck with your training.

Gonz

**BREASTMAN** · 02-27-2004, 10:05 PM

M 1-T is not adding water weight, but muscle tissue. Not everyone adds 10,12, 15 lbs so quickly, but most are getting an average of 6-8 lbs in two weeks. The weight is solid, and completely unlike what you get with Dbol or Adrol.

**BrokenBricks** · 02-28-2004, 06:08 AM

Dude, if you cannot see that its impossible to add more than a pound of muscle a day...well.....go back to school. Youve spent too much time in a gym and not enough time learning. "you dont know untill youve tried it" Bullsh*t. I know plenty of things without trying them. There are FACTS about the natural word. Conservation of energy is one. You cannot create energy from nothing. You must eat, digest and utilize an ridiculous about of calories to put on that kind of muscle. It just wont happen. There is no steroid on the planet that can break the laws of thermodynamics.
This is just like people who say they CANT lose weight. Sure....your body defys physics. You eat nothing and excersize and you still dont lose wieght.

**BREASTMAN** · 02-28-2004, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by BrokenBricks

Dude, if you cannot see that its impossible to add more than a pound of muscle a day...well.....go back to school. Youve spent too much time in a gym and not enough time learning. "you dont know untill youve tried it" Bullsh*t. I know plenty of things without trying them. There are FACTS about the natural word. Conservation of energy is one. You cannot create energy from nothing. You must eat, digest and utilize an ridiculous about of calories to put on that kind of muscle. It just wont happen. There is no steroid on the planet that can break the laws of thermodynamics.
This is just like people who say they CANT lose weight. Sure....your body defys physics. You eat nothing and excersize and you still dont lose wieght.

Well, first off, I'm sure that not only have I been in the gym longer than you, but my education/experience far outweighs yours as well...but thats another story entirely...

What I am saying is this about M 1-T...and you can interpret it any way you wish. Lets use myself as an example. I decided to do a cycle of M 1-T for 2 weeks while in the middle of a hypocaloric diet. I was in the process of "losing weight" to get more cut up. At the beginning and end of the cycle I had my bodyfat recorded using the hydrostatic method (pretty **** accurate). After the 2 weeks my results were a 5 lbs gain in scale weight AND my bodyfat DROPPED almost 1 full percent.

So, on a below maintenance calorie diet and with NO other changes to my regimen I added 5 lean lbs and lost a percent in bodyfat...all in 2 weeks.

Next...the question was, would I keep this "weight?" To test it I made sure to neither add nor subtract any calories from my diet and to only add PCT supplements (OTC anti-E, ALC, PS). Four weeks later my bodyweight remained exactly the same as did my new lower bodyfat.

Now, where did the weight I added come from? Lean tissue? Increased glycogen storage? Intracellular water? All 3? Whatever the compostition is exactly, it seems to be permanent, solid, and real. Not simple water retention that dissapears once you have discontinued a "cycle."

And as far as people losing weight...THAT is not as simple as energy in vs energy out either.

Anyway, take it for what you wish. Interpret it how you want. M 1-T makes some serious positive changes to the physique...and rather quickly.

**BrokenBricks** · 02-28-2004, 01:25 PM

5 pounds is 14 days is not what im arguing against. its this pound a day BS.

I still question your results though. not the muscle gained but just the way you gained it. You were dieting...so...near empty intestine...low gycogen stores...ect...and then began eating a high cal diet for bulking...that change itself should cause you to gain 3-4 pounds imediatly of solid waste and fluild build up. And keeping your diet the same would not alter that. you would have had to change back to the low cal diet for a few days to be able to compare.

Do you understad what i mean?

For the EXACT same amount of fat and muscle on a person, their weight will change depending on their state of eating. This change means nothing.

A catablic state will always weigh less than an anabolic one. they may be 5+ pounds apart. You cannot compare you body at one time to another time without comparing it in the same state of nutrition. Body fat percent is measured directly without counting pounds, but muscle mass is infered by the computer based on your weight, and the computer cannot tell water from muscle, it just uses an arbartary ratio that may or may not apply to you.

And I have a degree in biochemistry, for whatever thats worth. I think it qualifies me to know that a pound a day of muscle growth is beyond the body's ability. Take HGH, dbol , test, fina whatever. Your body just cant do it. And if your education was a formal, real eduction, and not an amalgam of of hearsay and anectodes im suprised you dont agree.

**BrokenBricks** · 02-28-2004, 01:28 PM

I respect that you are taking your time and trying to lay out agruments. But why start your post with this?

Well, first off, I'm sure that not only have I been in the gym longer than you, but my education/experience far outweighs yours as well...but thats another story entirely...

You didnt know a thing about me.....

And as far as people losing weight...THAT is not as simple as energy in vs energy out either.

?!?! it may be difficult to reduce calories, or hard to get off your butt and burn them. But thats not what im talking about. Im talking about basic science not psycology. I dont think you want to agrue thermodynamics with me.

**BREASTMAN** · 02-28-2004, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by BrokenBricks

I respect that you are taking your time and trying to lay out agruments. But why start your post with this?

Well, first off, I'm sure that not only have I been in the gym longer than you, but my education/experience far outweighs yours as well...but thats another story entirely...

You didnt know a thing about me.....

And as far as people losing weight...THAT is not as simple as energy in vs energy out either.

?!?! it may be difficult to reduce calories, or hard to get off your butt and burn them. But thats not what im talking about. Im talking about basic science not psycology. I dont think you want to agrue thermodynamics with me.

Two things:

1-Where did I say I went on a bulking diet?? I never said that! During AND after my cycle I remained on the same hypocaloric diet which contained an average of only 75 g of carbs per day (and I weigh well into the 200s).

2-I am not talking about the "psychology" of losing weight, but about the fact that some people can literally eat 1000 calories per day, and "burn" 1200 and still weigh exactly the same on the scale day after day. A calorie is certainly not a calorie, and there is alot more involved in gaining or losing weight than basic numbers.

Muscle CAN be created without a calorie surplus, especially with the use of hormonal supplements. Like I said, I gained 5 lbs in two weeks (but really even more in that my bodyfat DROPPED), and I was eating at a calorie defecit. M 1-T is some powerful sh%t.

As for the MANY people that have gained 10-14 lbs in two weeks from M 1-T...I have had the opportunity to test the bodyfat and lean muscle in many of them (as well as visually inspect their apearance), and I can tell you that they ARE NOT gaining much, if any, subQ water. They are getting bigger, harder, and more vascular.

Just as I am sure you will present facts about the "laws" of thermodynamics, what I am stating is fact as well.

**BrokenBricks** · 02-29-2004, 09:46 AM

what you are stating is called an anecdote. Its where one guy sees one thing and then comes to a conclution about it. The problem is that he forgets all of the details of what he saw and only remebers the parts that support the conclution

Here is fact. If you eat 1000 cal and burn 1200, you will lose weight. End of story.
a calorie is not a calorie? what are you talking about? A calorie is the amount of energy required to raise 1 gram of water one degree celcius. there is no interpretation there.

**BrokenBricks** · 02-29-2004, 09:51 AM

If fat is being burned well, muscle can be created while eating under maintinence.

**daman1** · 02-29-2004, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by BrokenBricks

If fat is being burned well, muscle can be created while eating under maintinence.

no, you cant create muscle on a deficiency, only try to maintain what you have

**BrokenBricks** · 02-29-2004, 12:54 PM

It is possible, maybe not at the level that some people are claiming though.

If your BMR is 3000cal and you eat 2500 protien heavy cals, AND burn 1000 cal of fat, you have a net surplus of 500 cal (which can be used to build muscle), even though you ate 500 cal less that BMR. The key is, how do you stimulate fat breakdown at the same time as muscle build up. Steroids .

**BREASTMAN** · 02-29-2004, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by BrokenBricks

what you are stating is called an anecdote. Its where one guy sees one thing and then comes to a conclution about it. The problem is that he forgets all of the details of what he saw and only remebers the parts that support the conclution

Here is fact. If you eat 1000 cal and burn 1200, you will lose weight. End of story.
a calorie is not a calorie? what are you talking about? A calorie is the amount of energy required to raise 1 gram of water one degree celcius. there is no interpretation there.

No, not really. I am HEAVILY involved in the training of bodybuilders and athletes. I not only remember details, but record everything meticulously. My "conclusions" are based on dozens of cases, not one isolated incident.

Hmmm, really. There are THOUSANDS of people out there that eat maybe one meal per day and then perform normal (or more) activity for the day and still maintain their weight.

A calorie is not a calorie in the sense that 1 calorie from protein causes are much different chain of events in the body than a calorie from protein. Feed someone 1000 calories from carbs vs 1000 calories from protein and the results will be entirely different.

**BREASTMAN** · 02-29-2004, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by daman1

no, you cant create muscle on a deficiency, only try to maintain what you have

Sure you can, with proper supplementation and training. And plenty can be built on maintenance cals.

**BrokenBricks** · 02-29-2004, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by BREASTMAN

Hmmm, really. There are THOUSANDS of people out there that eat maybe one meal per day and then perform normal (or more) activity for the day and still maintain their weight.

what you need is a physics course. conservation of energy...look it up....
Unless these people are eating ton of food at that one sitting they WILL NOT maintain their weight over any meaningfull period of time. You can eat 3000 calories easily in one meal if your hungry.

conservation of energy

**BREASTMAN** · 03-01-2004, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by BrokenBricks

what you need is a physics course. conservation of energy...look it up....
Unless these people are eating ton of food at that one sitting they WILL NOT maintain their weight over any meaningfull period of time. You can eat 3000 calories easily in one meal if your hungry.

conservation of energy

LOL. You better have a talk with the hundreds of thousands of people out there struggling to lose weight and perhaps the entire fitness industry.

If it were as simple as you make it sound, there would be FAR many less fat people in this world. Have you ever considered writing a book?

I'm guessing that your opinion on many of the overweight people you see in the gym is that they are not working hard enough or are sneaking food that the claim they are not eating.

Oh well...I just hope you are not a trainer or anything. I'm running back to college now to take a course in physics...you have convinced me with your omnipotence!

**BrokenBricks** · 03-01-2004, 11:42 AM

People who cant lose weight need to eat less and excersize more. Its a fact. Calories dont come from nowhere. either you burn them or or you eat them but that is it. SIMPLE. No it wont sell alot of books, but since when was popularity the same as factuality?? No one wants to hear that they are not eating what they should, and they certialy wont pay me to tell them to stop eating so much, but nevertheless its the truth.

Unless you want to give some sort of logic for your idea that someone can eat undermaintinance and not lose weight im am leaving this argument. There is none.

Originally Posted by BREASTMAN

LOL. You better have a talk with the hundreds of thousands of people out there struggling to lose weight and perhaps the entire fitness industry.

If it were as simple as you make it sound, there would be FAR many less fat people in this world. Have you ever considered writing a book?

I'm guessing that your opinion on many of the overweight people you see in the gym is that they are not working hard enough or are sneaking food that the claim they are not eating.

Oh well...I just hope you are not a trainer or anything. I'm running back to college now to take a course in physics...you have convinced me with your omnipotence!

**BREASTMAN** · 03-01-2004, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by BrokenBricks

People who cant lose weight need to eat less and excersize more. Its a fact. Calories dont come from nowhere. either you burn them or or you eat them but that is it. SIMPLE. No it wont sell alot of books, but since when was popularity the same as factuality?? No one wants to hear that they are not eating what they should, and they certialy wont pay me to tell them to stop eating so much, but nevertheless its the truth.

Unless you want to give some sort of logic for your idea that someone can eat undermaintinance and not lose weight im am leaving this argument. There is none.

I know it seems impossible to you, but it happens everyday. There are tons of people that eat next to nothing and do NOT lose weight. Oh well, onto bigger and better things...

**BrokenBricks** · 03-01-2004, 01:57 PM

and how do you explain that?

**BREASTMAN** · 03-01-2004, 03:12 PM

Something must be going on physiologically that we do not know of. There are still plenty of mysteries to be unlocked in the science of weight/fat loss.