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  1. #1
    sensaispike's Avatar
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    lower back pumps

    so how bad are the lower back pumps with m1t...the reason i am asking is because i dont want to start taking it and not be able to make it acrost campus...

  2. #2
    nsa
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    If you stay around 10 mg a day they aren't too bad, upping the dose to 20 mgs is when most people get them real bad.

  3. #3
    sensaispike's Avatar
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    will i still be able to walk some what...... cus week 2 i was planning bummping it up to 20

  4. #4
    nsa
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    Almost everyone who complains about side effects and the pumps say they get it when they up the dose to 20 mg.

  5. #5
    sensaispike's Avatar
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    ok one more question..and i am only asking because i am geting comflicting answers....is nolva alone enough for pct....

  6. #6
    nsa
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    Im planning on doing nolvadex and clomid for pct. The nolvadex to combat all the estrogen and clomid to get the natural test levels back to normal.

  7. #7
    sensaispike's Avatar
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    that is what i was gonna do but i never got my clomid cus LR got busted.......what can i do about this cus i paid ans everything????

  8. #8
    nsa
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    Probably nothing you can do about it. But you can still get liquid clomid from a research lab from the web.

  9. #9
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    Only use one of the SERMS. If you want more help than you add a liquidex type product.

  10. #10
    sensaispike's Avatar
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    so baller are you saying just to use nolva or clomid, rather than both?

  11. #11
    baller45's Avatar
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    Yes, there is no synergy using compounds that work the same. Thats why the liquidex will help a lot.

  12. #12
    nsa
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    Liquidex won't do anything for you after doing m1t. You need to take nolvadex and clomid for pct, the nolvadex to combat the estrogen and clomid to get your natural test levels back to normal.

  13. #13
    sensaispike's Avatar
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    and your retort baller........

  14. #14
    nsa
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    His retort doesn't matter, liquidex is only used to stop aromatizing compounds from aromatizing into estrogen. M1t doesn't aromatize, and taking liquidex as pct won't do anything since there is nothing to aromatize into estrogen at that point. Nolva to combat the estrogen in your system and clomid to get the low test levels (from exogenous test shutting down the hpta) back to normal levels.

  15. #15
    baller45's Avatar
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    Why do you think people can get post cycle gyno off of no aromatizing roids?

  16. #16
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    Dex works on another part of the system with that being FSH so if you want full recovery you would need both.

    That is from a more knowlagable person than you or me.
    You want some studies about dex increasing endotest?
    Last edited by baller45; 03-25-2004 at 11:43 AM.

  17. #17
    nsa
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    Sure.

  18. #18
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    Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects.

    Mauras N, O'Brien KO, Klein KO, Hayes V.

    Nemours Research Programs at the Nemours Children's Clinic, Jacksonville, Florida 32207, USA. [email protected]

    We have shown that testosterone (T) deficiency per se is associated with marked catabolic effects on protein, calcium metabolism, and body composition in men independent of changes in GH or insulin -like growth factor I production.


    It is not clear,however, whether estrogens have a major role in whole body anabolism in males. We investigated the metabolic effects of selective estrogen suppression in the male using a potent aromatase inhibitor, Arimidex (Anastrozole).

    First, a dose-response study of 12 males (mean age, 16.1 +/- 0.3 yr) was conducted, and blood withdrawn at baseline and after 10 days of oral Arimidex given as two different doses (either 0.5 or 1 mg) in random order with a 14-day washout in between. A sensitive estradiol (E2) assay showed an approximately 50% decrease in E2 concentrations with either of the two doses; hence, a 1-mg dose was selected for other studies. Subsequently, eight males (aged 15-22 yr; four adults and four late pubertal) had isotopic infusions of [(13)C]leucine and (42)Ca/(44)Ca, indirect calorimetry, dual energy x-ray absorptiometry, isokinetic dynamometry, and growth factors measurements performed before and after 10 weeks of daily doses of Arimidex. Contrary to the effects of T withdrawal, there were no significant changes in body composition (body mass index, fat mass, and fat-free mass) after estrogen suppression or in rates of protein synthesis or degradation; carbohydrate, lipid, or protein oxidation; muscle strength; calcium kinetics; or bone growth factors concentrations. However, E2 concentrations decreased 48% (P = 0.006), with no significant change in mean and peak GH concentrations, but with an 18% decrease in plasma insulin-like growth factor I concentrations. There was a 58% increase in serum T (P = 0.0001), sex hormone-binding globulin did not change, whereas LH and FSH concentrations increased (P < 0.02, both). Serum bone markers, osteocalcin and bone alkaline phosphatase concentrations, and rates of bone calcium deposition and resorption did not change. In conclusion, these data suggest that in the male 1) estrogens do not contribute significantly to the changes in body composition and protein synthesis observed with changing androgen levels; 2) estrogen is a main regulator of the gonadal-pituitary feedback for the gonadotropin axis; and 3) this level of aromatase inhibition does not negatively impact either kinetically measured rates of bone calcium turnover or indirect markers of bone calcium turnover, at least in the short term. Further studies will provide valuable information on whether timed aromatase inhibition can be useful in increasing the height potential of pubertal boys with profound growth retardation without the confounding negative effects of gonadal androgen suppression.

  19. #19
    baller45's Avatar
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    Whatever, its common knowlage that letro and ana will raise your T.

  20. #20
    nsa
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    Thanks.

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