dc + max potential lifts ?

I tried dc a while back. what i did not like about it is that after benching, the weight for every other excersise has to come way down. what are your thoughts on progressing the muscles affected in a way that they cant lift as much weight that they would normally on a day when they are trained alone?
ex. normally i mil press the 75-80 lb db's mil style(when given their own day to train
after benching 265 for 8 and using rp + forced reps, i will have to obviosly go down much lighter with the mil press. after going down much lighter , how will this impact growth for shoulders and every other muslcle affected by the benchpress?

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Originally Posted by IronReload04

I tried dc a while back. what i did not like about it is that after benching, the weight for every other excersise has to come way down. what are your thoughts on progressing the muscles affected in a way that they cant lift as much weight that they would normally on a day when they are trained alone?
ex. normally i mil press the 75-80 lb db's mil style(when given their own day to train
after benching 265 for 8 and using rp + forced reps, i will have to obviosly go down much lighter with the mil press. after going down much lighter , how will this impact growth for shoulders and every other muslcle affected by the benchpress?

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Real simple, when you did your high volume one bodypart a day, did you ever add weight and or reps to any exercise? if you did how much did you add?, did you grow form that program?.

The idea here is to lift as much as you can with perfect form and you will everytime you rotate back to that same exercise you will add weight and or reps and you will gain strength and grow of course with a high protein diet.

Yes I have always lifted heavy and I had to drop some exercises by almost half but now I am the strongest of my life...

i tried DC myself and got nothing.. id still with the bodybuidlng programs out today.. all effective and tested and proven to build great bodies, im not knocking DCs method either,, just didnt work for me

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Originally Posted by In-Human

Real simple, when you did your high volume one bodypart a day, did you ever add weight and or reps to any exercise? if you did how much did you add?, did you grow form that program?.

The idea here is to lift as much as you can with perfect form and you will everytime you rotate back to that same exercise you will add weight and or reps and you will gain strength and grow of course with a high protein diet.

Yes I have always lifted heavy and I had to drop some exercises by almost half but now I am the strongest of my life...

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to answer your question about progressing with higher volume workouts, yes i do and have gained a ton. for ex, on chest day, i will do a total of 12 sets. i go into each workout with "dc mentality" and my goal is to increase weight or reps on every single set. my first set is always like a dc set, warmups, then my big set, then i pyramid down. it has been said by some that it takes 2-3 sets of an exc. to get the most out of it. as far as progression, my goal that i often achieve is to increase my charted max by 5lbs every workout and again increase reps or weight with every other set. my log book makes this easy. by the way, it has also been said that doing the same work and moving the same net weight in less time than a previous workout will cause gains, 1 tactic that dc program really cant do.

dc is not the only right way
high volume is not the only right way
max ot and HIT is not the only right way

they all work. muscles are just way too complex for only 1 method to work

to answer your question further about how much i have progressed....

i have been using my medium volume routine for a long time. here is some charted progress...the bench press

feb 10 04 265 for 3 reps plus a forced rep
265 for 4 negatives

march 2 04 300 for 1 rep

august 24 04 255 for 9 almost 10 reps

the squat

feb 11 04 345 for 4 reps and a forced rep

march 17 04 320 for 11 reps

sept 2 04 350 for 11 reps

the mil press db's

feb 13 04 70 4 reps

aug 30 04 75 for 8 reps

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Originally Posted by Decadbal

i tried DC myself and got nothing.. id still with the bodybuidlng programs out today.. all effective and tested and proven to build great bodies, im not knocking DCs method either,, just didnt work for me

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You didn't understand the system, simple as that. Its just like every once in awhile you'll see someone say in the PL forum that WSB does not work.

The important aspect of training is to have a system. A set of guidelines based around a principle, and how to gauge progress, and what to do when progress halts. The problem with all these western periodization splits you see in mags and all around the forums, is that they are just a hap hazard way of doing things, there's no rhyme or reason to their approach, and when you get stuck, there's no effective measure in place to get around it, and there's so many options to choose from its confusing, add sets, subtract sets, change exercises, order of exercises, supersets, drop sets, frequency, restpause sets, etc, etc, etc. This is why a system is important. Start looking at PLers and there is none of this wishy washy stuff floating around, its "I do this because I will get stronger, and bust that plateau", and you will also see many similarites in PLing systems, which would seem to indicate that although there are many ways to skin a cat, there are ones that are more effective than others.

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Originally Posted by saboudian

You didn't understand the system, simple as that. Its just like every once in awhile you'll see someone say in the PL forum that WSB does not work.

The important aspect of training is to have a system. A set of guidelines based around a principle, and how to gauge progress, and what to do when progress halts. The problem with all these western periodization splits you see in mags and all around the forums, is that they are just a hap hazard way of doing things, there's no rhyme or reason to their approach, and when you get stuck, there's no effective measure in place to get around it, and there's so many options to choose from its confusing, add sets, subtract sets, change exercises, order of exercises, supersets, drop sets, frequency, restpause sets, etc, etc, etc. This is why a system is important. Start looking at PLers and there is none of this wishy washy stuff floating around, its "I do this because I will get stronger, and bust that plateau", and you will also see many similarites in PLing systems, which would seem to indicate that although there are many ways to skin a cat, there are ones that are more effective than others.

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i disagree with a few things you stated. from personaly experience, drop sets frequ. and all that wishy washy stuff has never failed me from kickin a plateau in its balls. check my progress from my prev, post, i used periodization and medium volume to get their and wishy washy stuff kept me rollin rollin rollin what. holla

Well as I see it, then if high volume is so good why isn't everyone huge and growing from year to year.

I added 20 lbs of muscle in 6 months with DC, hmm better than high volume, yes, better than Max-Ot, yes, better than BFT, yes, better than all the other programs I have tried in the last 25 years.

This program as I said is not for everyone and you try this program when you exhausted all others and are not gaining anymore, with diet changes and program changes, this program worked and worked well, I do not know of any trainee of DC's that have not made major gains, did I say its the only program, no, for me, yes...

i in no way said high volume, if i did i didnt mean it. i use MEDIUM VOLUME. some studies show that it takes 3 sets of an ex to get the most out of it. i gains 97 pounds with the same bf levels in 4 years doing it my way (starting at a scrawny 120). yeah the people not growin that you referred to are probably overtraining. but through experimentation, i have found the max volume of work i can do and not over train and get the best results that i can.

The best approach to training is flat out trial-and-error. Some people respond better to high reps, while other people respond better to low reps. Find out what works best for you and stick to it. Its that simple.

Regardless of your individual training routine, one thing should remain common among all the different weight training programs you can subscribe to - its called progressive training. Keep a log and record all your lifts. Your goals each and every time you enter the gym is to beat your last workout's lift. If you get nothing else out of DC's training protocol take the progressive theory with you and use it for no matter how you decide to train.

good luck

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Originally Posted by IronReload04

i in no way said high volume, if i did i didnt mean it. i use MEDIUM VOLUME. some studies show that it takes 3 sets of an ex to get the most out of it. i gains 97 pounds with the same bf levels in 4 years doing it my way (starting at a scrawny 120). yeah the people not growin that you referred to are probably overtraining. but through experimentation, i have found the max volume of work i can do and not over train and get the best results that i can.

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Well thats great, if you gained that much weight why would you try anything else, you know the saying, if it ain't broke, why fix it.

When you are young you will gain on any program if you give it your best shot and go at it 110%, but when you get older and have been training for many years you will stagnate and gains will stop, I am 40 and I needed help at the age of 39 I got it with this program, since others just were not doing very much for my gains...

if what you currently are doing is working for you , id stay stick with it..

Try everything!! Like mobsta said, if it's working, stick with it. If not, move along to something else. Be precise however in execution of whatever program you do, and give it at least 4-6 weeks before you can accurately evaluate progress.

If you are lifting for the love of the sport, you'll be forced to. After repeated years of effort, you'll NEED to shock your body every few months to progress. Utilize all methods of volume/HIT/power-training (Silverback style :thumbsup: ) until you find your niche. Many focus too much on how they train, and not enough on how they EAT.

Remember that when worrying about what "work" you are going to do in the gym. If you grow out of the gym, and changing/evolving occur the other 23 hours or so that you are OUT of the gym while at rest, I'd have to say I know where my focus would be. You have to have a good stimulus for growth, indeed, however if your nutritional approaches do not totally support those efforts, you're wasting your time. I can totally change my look on diet ALONE, simply doing a M-W-F split and doing the same thing every week. The workout does not change, but what enabled me to go from 250 to 220, or vice-versa? It sure as heck wasn't the lifting routine I was utilizing over the past few weeks.

Just wanted to reiterate what should be obvious, but yet is forgotten by many.

~SC~

~SC~

D@mn... Swole you sound like Yoda bro!

you hit the nail on the head about how just focusing on the gym for one hour isnt enough for you to get to what you want from body building.

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Originally Posted by IronReload04

i disagree with a few things you stated. from personaly experience, drop sets frequ. and all that wishy washy stuff has never failed me from kickin a plateau in its balls. check my progress from my prev, post, i used periodization and medium volume to get their and wishy washy stuff kept me rollin rollin rollin what. holla

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So you get stuck at a plateau, should you use giant sets, drop sets, etc,etc. So many to choose from, but which is the most effective? How will this decision effect your recovery? Which will stimulate the muscle the most?

example:
So you hit a plateau, you add in drop sets, but then maybe you cannot hit that bodypart again for another week. One of the many basics with any system, is understanding that inverse relationship between volume and frequency, and how to weigh each. The problem is that you cannot incoporate all the wish washy stuff into one system, is it possible that it would have been better to use a giant set instead of a drop set? Or maybe supersets? Are all created equal, or are some more effective?

These are all basic questions that a system should answer. The only way to understand these principles is to look at different systems, and understand the core principles they're based on, and then give it a shot, and after awhile with experience you can adequately judge the importance of each principle, for example maybe volume vs frequency.

EX:If you're using medium volume, you're using medium intensity and medium frequency, possibly you could gain more by switching to low volume and high intensity and working that muscle more frequently.


I mention the importance of PLing systems, because I beleive that strength gains are of the upmost important, and a BBing system should have many parrallels to PL to be successful, this is where I would start looking at, PLing systems. If you continue to use the avg western periodization system, its as good as a shot in the dark. IDK what else to say until you start looking at other systems.

max intensity plus medium volume is the ticket for me

Hey, at the end of the day, What you do is your decision. My only message is to whoever reads this thread, stop wasting your time with these shot in the dark methods, and read up on some systems and try them out, they will yield much more effective results and you will learn a great deal about how the human body works.

All I have to say is, who said all these high volume workouts that Arnold and the boys did are the best, well no one says, you must find what works so you ain't spinning your wheels always looking for that perfect program for the next 20 years...

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Originally Posted by In-Human

Well thats great, if you gained that much weight why would you try anything else, you know the saying, if it ain't broke, why fix it.

When you are young you will gain on any program if you give it your best shot and go at it 110%, but when you get older and have been training for many years you will stagnate and gains will stop, I am 40 and I needed help at the age of 39 I got it with this program, since others just were not doing very much for my gains...

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i dont really need to try anything else because i am one who wont change a working thing. i am just curious and want to be open minded to other ways/

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Originally Posted by IronReload04

i dont really need to try anything else because i am one who wont change a working thing. i am just curious and want to be open minded to other ways/

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I understand, and being in this game for so many years I always say you must be open minded, but when you find something that works and works great, you don't try to fix it unless it breaks, thats what I was trying to say...