cant deadlift or squat

i used to always incorporate both of these exercises into my workouts once a week each, but recently i havent been able to perform more than one set of either because my lower back hurts far too much

it started when i began my cycle and thought it may be because of the Dbol but i have been off for a few months now and the problem still continues

i can just manage bent over rows, but use a belt and my lower back is screaming by the end of my 3rd set

i have been lifting for 3+ years and pretty sure my form is correct for deadlifts

i am not so sure about squats because i am used to the smith machine, but my new gym doesnt have one so i do free-standing squats - i think this is where the problem began

any ideas?

Is your lower back still hurting after you lift? Is it hard just to get into your car seat after the gym? Stiff in morning? You could of misaligned a vertabrate in your lower spinal column L1-L5. If it's a sharp excruciating pain you need to stop and have it looked at once. I would suggest see a good chiropractor to start as they have helped me tremendously and not just any flybynight chiro. Good luck.

could be your si joint.same thing happened to me. i could not even do light squats anymore! i stopped doing deads and squats for 3 months and now am slowly working my way back into them(starting very light).
take an anti infammatory(ibuprophen)religiously 3 times a day and stop doing deads and squats.go get an assessment from a physiotherapist.just my opinion.

Ibuprophen, and almost all OTC anti-inflammatories, completely stop protein synthesis.

I would say see a well known local chiropractor and your doctor, get an x-ray and MRI of you lumbar vertebral area.

Don't use a belt on any exercises, belts cause your rectus abdominus, abdominal obliques, erector spinae and other mid-section stabilizers to atrophy. Work your way back slowly to squats and deads, using leg press and back hyperextensions to work your way back when you feel you are ready to get back into it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nsa

Ibuprophen, and almost all OTC anti-inflammatories, completely stop protein synthesis.

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where did you get that info nsa?

The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism.

Protein synthesis is one important factor controlling the rate of muscle growth. In simple terms, your muscles grow larger when protein synthesis is greater than protein breakdown. One of the ways that pain killers, such as ibuprofen, work is to suppress the synthesis of substances known as prostaglandins. However, these very same prostaglandins also have a profound effect on muscle growth.

Ask your primary-care doctor or your endocrinoligist, if you have one.

Anyone who is serious about bodybuilding (or fitness in general) should be comfortable talking about things such as this, and/or anabolic compounds with their medical practitioners. As there is no harm in talking about these things with your doctor(s) as they have to respect patient-doctor confidentiality in regards to the drugs and medications regarding all of their patients.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by radar1234

could be your si joint.same thing happened to me. i could not even do light squats anymore! i stopped doing deads and squats for 3 months and now am slowly working my way back into them(starting very light).
take an anti infammatory(ibuprophen)religiously 3 times a day and stop doing deads and squats.go get an assessment from a physiotherapist.just my opinion.

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don't waste your time with the pain killers because they will only mask the pain and put toxins in your system (very toxic to the liver). See a chiropractor before you do anything again. Also smith machine squats are also pointless and takes all the value out of doing a squat. Be a man and do real squats.

I just did some research, and yes it does support a decrease in protein synthesis after taking ibuprofen and acetaminophen (the tylenol is apparently worse than ibuprofen). But the studies that I looked at were for taking the max dose immediately after a workout. If you are taking it for pain that is not a result of DOMS, then I think the benefit of short term use throughout the day is better. I was taking 400mg 3x a day for my back pain.....I didn't notice any muscle loss/lack of growth......and it did wonders for my back.

Actually i will point out, after looking back on the info i was basing my post on, they don't completely stop protein synthesis. They do however significantly suppress protein synthesis.

In general they are still not worth taking IMO unless absolutely necessary, in which case you should be able to go to your doctor and get a script for some real painkillers. Which as i understand use different means to limit the pain your experiencing, and these don't decrease protein sythesis.

In short, you can use OTC painkillers, get decent pain relief while you suppress your protein synthesis. Or you can use prescription painkillers, get many times more pain relief and not suppress protein synthesis nearly as much. I'll take the prescription meds any day of the week....

I would love to sit and talk about this some more, but i have to go study for anatomy and kinesiology finals, maybe i'll have some time later to discuss this.

thanks guys

the pain isnt a sharp one, where i have to stop immediately
its a gradual and dull pain.
i can just about complete 3 sets of bent over rows (have to lie down for 5mins after the 3rd set) but can only manage one warm up set of either squats or deads

i will check with the doc see if he can recommend a chiropractor and get me some painkillers

NSA, I think your statement about never wearing a weight belt is misleading. It has it's usefullness during certain lifts with higher % poundages. The debate about the pro's & con's will continue. As far as atrophy that is also debateble . I do agree you do not need the belt most of the time however. The whole purpose is to create a object for abdominal muscles to push against which raises intr-abdominal pressures supporting lumbar vertebrae. (Harman 1989,Lander,Hundley & Simonton 1992, Giacobbe1990)This helps prevent flexion and posture. Wearing the belt tightly also increases blood pressure raising cardiovascular stresses thus should not be worn unless back support is needed with heavy weights. All this said its good to agree to disagree... As a side note good luck bro on your finals too!

to be honest i couldnt imagine not using a belt for deadlift or bent over rows

To each his own. But for my purposes of strength training i don't feel it necessary to use a belt. I don't go over 3 plates on each side of any freeweight lift, i.e. flat bench, squat and deadlift. Only time i go over 3 plates is on leg press which is well over 3 plates on each side.

IMO, If your not going heavier than that i don't see a reason to use belt. With correct form, regardless of weight, you shouldn't need a belt anyway. Again this is all JMO, some others may have different opinions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nsa

To each his own. But for my purposes of strength training i don't feel it necessary to use a belt. I don't go over 3 plates on each side of any freeweight lift, i.e. flat bench, squat and deadlift. Only time i go over 3 plates is on leg press which is well over 3 plates on each side.

IMO, If your not going heavier than that i don't see a reason to use belt. With correct form, regardless of weight, you shouldn't need a belt anyway. Again this is all JMO, some others may have different opinions.

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i see your point on the belt issue.i would'nt use a belt either for 2 plates a side.
but when you are doing 4-5 plates a side (deads,rows and squats)i would say that a belt is highly advisable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by radar1234

i see your point on the belt issue.i would'nt use a belt either for 2 plates a side.
but when you are doing 4-5 plates a side (deads,rows and squats)i would say that a belt is highly advisable.

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I personally have no reason to go that heavy. I would rather do sets of 315 for 10-15 reps than do sets of 495 for 1 or 2. Unless your a competitive athlete, no reason to do it. Your only risking an injury, too much stress on your vertebral discs and joints. And for what? To say that your stronger than the guy next to you in the gym, not worth it to me.

i managed a full leg work out last night

4 sets of free squats
6 sets of leg presses
4 sets of hack squats
and a few leg extensions

i was really concentrating on keeping my back straight during the squat
i did manage all 4 sets but my back was very painful

i kept lying on a matt for a couple of minutes between sets

i'm just pleased i managed to complete my full work out
even though it hurt like f*ck

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Originally Posted by G-Force

i kept lying on a matt for a couple of minutes between sets

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He didn't mind this? :lol:
j/k
Glad to hear that you completed a leg workout, Congrats~

About the otc painkillers slowing down protein synthesis... Well that isn't nescesarly bad because, as you all know clen is a good fat burner and is anti-catabolic and I was reading the description on ar-r and it "slows down protein synthesis"... So I'm sorta confused here. Just took some ibuprofin myself here my back is killing me has been for the past few days without any painkillers... Have taken them b4 and even if it is bad 4 you I would still take it because it does the job and I have continuously gone up in weight over time like any1 would with a good diet and workingout...

Don't go to a chiropractor yet -- Go see an MD/DO and get an MRI. Don't mess with the possibility of having or getting a slipped disk (like I did). Once you get a slipped disk you can forget about weight lifting for a long time. If your MRI comes out ok, it may be your D-Bol. I ALWAYS have terrible issues exactly like what you described when I'm on D-bol. Hope this helps.

my bad back only started when i took DBol for 4weeks, but it carried on through the whole 14 week cycle of test/winny and PCT.

i just bought some otc painkillers
solphadine i think they are called - they dont contain ibuprophen but contain codeine and paracetomol

is it just ibuprophen that reduces protein synth or does codein/paracetomol do that too?

Anti-inflammatories interfere with the remodeling phase of tissue repair. Therefore, they could limit your strength gains by limiting hypertrophy because the inflammatory response is going to be limited by taking these meds, which reduces the amount of remodeling/tissue repair that would normally take place.

is solphadine an anti-inflamitory?