are ass to the floor squats easier on the knees than going parellel?
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are ass to the floor squats easier on the knees than going parellel?
how the hell are you supposed to put your ass on the floor without falling over backwards? Seems kind of awkward to me...
Not sure, but doin fronts deep sure feels GOOD!!!!!
No. Many who want to be "hardcore" will tell you to go far below parallel, but the reality is that only screws up your knee capsule and places the tendons/joint in an awkward position w/the weight on your back. Parallel (or maybe 1 inch below) is all you need for full quad development. (Information obtained from a trainer for the Gators f-ball team and Duke Blue Devils B-ball team)Quote:
Originally Posted by IronReload04
~SC~
From personal experience I find that going to parallel hurt my knees. I now go past parallel and my knees (and quads) have thanked me for it. I don't overdo it (my ass doesn't touch my heels :D ) but I go about 5-10 degrees past parallel.
X
Fundamentally/physiology wise, that makes no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by xenithon
:unsure:
Not saying it doesn't work for you, but how going FURTHER down to an extended state of stress on the knee would be better than stopping parallel (natural position for the capsule) is news to me.
Carry on!
~SC~
Not sure either in terms of an actual explanation, just from experience. A few trainers I spoke to suggested going just past parallel and it did the trick. They did warn me of course of ATG squats - that is terrible. I think it had something to do with the fact that going parallel then pushing up puts ALL the pressure directly on the knee. Going just past parallel forces the quads and hams to take over both the stabilization and force needed to move upward. I am no expert though, didn't study human movement, so perhaps there is far more to it.
X
As you exceed 90*, the distance between your patella and your femur actually come in contact with each other. This is called patellofemoral compression. As knee flexion continues (the further you squat past 90*) the more compression force you put on this articulation, which is not an ideal thing to do. Also, the most tension on a muscle is at 90*, this is for any lift.
That's the phrase I was trying to remember from the PT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypertrophy
"Patellofemoral compression".
Thanks! :thumbsup:
~SC~
I see a lot of guys at the gym that stack the weights on big time, but don't get anywhere near parrallel. I do less weight but deep (deep to me is parrallel). As far a arse to the floor, I see no benefit. And, it sounds like it could be dangerous (both from a balance perspective as well as on the knees).
Don't do heavy back squats ass to floor. Try heavy front squats ass to floor. Back squats are best heavy weights to parallel.
Look at all the skinny guys squatting 225 way below parallel to impress everyone. (hey I can't lift that much but its cause I am going really deep...)
Agreed. 4 knee surgeries and 3 back surgeries and Front Squats definately feel the best. Parallel with weight on back hurts like heck....Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Gottabejuiced
My .02 :bcool:
thanks for all the replies guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypertrophy
hypertrophy, i had a conversation going on in another forum, the dc one. do you mind of i use your quote as a reply.
if you dont mind, would you prefer me to include or not use your forum name?
either way, thanks
That's fine. Don't put my name with it, because I do not argue with people, don't have time and I would rather help than dispute. Do whatever you like with it for educational purposes, not to argue which is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by IronReload04
thanks alot bro. i am not trying to argue with anyone. it was just i was advised to use a certain technique to squat. and i have 1 set of knees that have to last the rest of my life, so i am sure you can understand.
that is a very good piece of info their
i have reviewed both sides of the story. both sides of the story came from very trusty sources. but i am convinced that going ass to the grass is safer and will begin squatting with that technique
I agree with swole here. I use to go deeper than parallel and after a few months I could tell my knees were starting to hurt. I now only go parallel or maybe a little farther and gains still comming and joints are feeling much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoleCat
....I have read at least three different studies in physiology and kinesiology journals that show no advantage in degree of muscular hypertrophy between squatting parallel and going as deep as possible. One study did show that tendinits, bursitis, and ligamentous injury rates were higher in the group that went way deep.
May wish to step back and utilize common sense and think on your own as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by IronReload04
Read Duck of Death's post, that sums it all up as if what was presented before wasn't evidence enough.
Do as you wish however, I really don't care. :)
~SC~
The only REAL issue is everyone's opinion as to what parallel actually is. Some peoples ass to floor is another's parallel......
I mean really......have you actually seen some guys version of parallel???????More like
45 degrees..........I guess it's all relative.
wow, that far down is insane, i cant do that now, much less with wt
from other physiology studies i have read. the points they make that are 1 the lower you go including below parellel, the more the hams are involved. 2 when you go all the way down, pressure gets transferred from the knees to hte hips
F*ck studies, one can just go by feel and tell the knee capsule gets compressed and jacked up.
To each his own, but knees are precious believe me.
~SC~
i guess all i can do is try it one time and compare it with p squats
All it takes is one tendon tear/rupture and shearing/compression before you change your view.
Enjoy.
~SC~
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoleCat
....I couldn't agree more. Think for yourself and use some common sense. Another example of body mechanics ignorance - every time I see someone doing military presses behind the neck and/or lat pulldowns behind the neck I cringe and wonder when (not if) their rotator cuff will go flooey. Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of joint anatomy knows that the further your elbows are abducted from your body midline, the more stresses are placed upon this very vulnerable joint complex. Arnold realized this and created the "Arnold press" in which the elbows are tucked to the front while pressing dumbbells overhead. Yet I am sure you can find many pictures of pros and lotsa folks in the gym doing it the wrong way. Doesn't make it right.
Swole has obviously helped thousands with BB expertise and has seen many injuries and chronic conditions. Why not take advantage of his experience?
LOL, one big guy at our gym does Side Lateral DB Raises, and comes way up and touches them above his head. It looks like he is trying to flap his imaginary wings. Now all the kids in the gym are doing them, I guess surgeons need the work... Rotator cuffs a plenty are going to be blown!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck of Death
Having almost no cartiledge in my left knee and damage in my right knee doing deep seated squats are a no-brainer! Yesterday, in the gym I was on the smith machine doing FRONT miltary presses and the other smith machine next to me(we have two)had one guy and his wife& sister doing front squats. His feet stance were almost touching each other and he was squating way below parralle where his butt was almost touching his ankles!!. The funny thing is he is built pretty good and has some leg development and trains hard. I have talked to all of them before and think he knows alot but was dumbfounded seeing him teach like that. I decided not to say anything as I did not wish to put him in a tricky embarrasing moment with his girls. Oh yea I also get freaky seeing behind the neck lat pull downs bobbing back and forth like a maniac,,you know the type..
its been a while since i responded to this thread it seems. i have decided not to go below parellel. I just wrap em up nice and tight and take em to parellel. they have been feeling pretty ok since i started wrapping them.