BIG BACK...Wide Grip Pulldowns to Front or Back? Plus Critique needed..

**Keyser Sozey** · 07-31-2005, 12:43 AM

Just wanted some takes on this.
My back workout is roughly like this
4 sets wide grip chins
4 sets wide grip pulldowns btn (I have been doin it btn for years)
3 sets bbell rows
4 sets deadlifts
3 sets low pulley rows
3 sets low back ext

It is definitely more difficult to do btn pulldown, but is it more productive to do front pulldown?

Also, am I doing too much upper back w the bbell rows? Should I alternate pulldowns w bbell rows?

Would it be better to perform low back ext instead of the low pulley rows, or keep it?

Sounds like alot, but I only train back once/ week and it is sore for three days. Just want to know if it can be improved.
Your thoughts please

**collar** · 07-31-2005, 02:21 AM

first of all
u have wayyyyyyy too many sets and exercises
second u have deadlifts in there so thats for lower back i dont see why u need to do anything else for lower back...

for lat pulldowns u can alternate if u like do to front one week to back another

btw if ur doing wide grip chins i dont see the need to do lat pulldowns to the front really.....

ur back workout should look like this
wide grip chins 4 sets/lat pulldowns to the front.. alternate between the 2
3 sets barbell rows
3 sets t-bar rows/seated rows/dumbell rows...alternate between the 3
4 sets of deadlifts for lower back...
that should be plenty..

**JAYROD** · 07-31-2005, 07:27 AM

overtraining a bit.

**D9S0M** · 07-31-2005, 10:26 AM

yes def way to much....the routine collar has given is perfect thats exactly wat i do..

**Keyser Sozey** · 07-31-2005, 02:41 PM

I get alot of "you're overtraining."
It's hard to break the mental block, that says you are not doing enough.
Thanks to all for replying, and two times for collar.
That's two you have helped me w in less than 24 hours.
Sometimes old dogs need to realize their tricks might be wrong (I have), and again Muchas Gracias!

**Keyser Sozey** · 07-31-2005, 02:45 PM

I have to cut down on my other bodyparts as well. Hehehe, been doing upwards of 18 sets for big bodyparts and 'bout 12 for smaller ones.
LOL
just call me....... THE OVERTRAINER

**collar** · 07-31-2005, 06:23 PM

see i reckon if u cut ur sets down and ur exercises u will have so much more power and strength to lift on the exercises u do .... cause u will end up lifting heavier weights..
so u will end up growing ....

**Keyser Sozey** · 07-31-2005, 10:48 PM

no doubt. I already updated my w/o.
Gonna tear up deads and wide grip chins w weight, and everything else for that matter.
WoooooooHoooooooo
I'm even more stoked to w/o.

**C_Bino** · 08-01-2005, 10:01 AM

I would def. try to keep rows in your workout.

-Bino

**Keyser Sozey** · 08-01-2005, 06:13 PM

What I have mind is:
4 sets chins (weighted) /or wide grip pulldowns
4 sets bbell rows
3 sets d/bell rows /or seated rows
4 sets deadlifts
& maybe 3 sets of low back ext (w no weight to fail)

**collar** · 08-01-2005, 06:52 PM

hehehe
u cant help urself hehehe
u have to do something else
its up to u i guess

**Keyser Sozey** · 08-01-2005, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by collar

hehehe
u cant help urself hehehe
u have to do something else
its up to u i guess

LOL. I knew that was coming. hehehe.
Honestly Collar, I don't think I'll be able to do low back ext after deads...I'll probably want to rolf and go home...

**collar** · 08-01-2005, 10:31 PM

lol...

**THEMOSTHATED** · 08-01-2005, 11:11 PM

No more than a total of 12 sets and keep reps between 8-12 and heavy weight enough to think "there's no way I could do this again for 6-7 days!"

**chest6** · 08-02-2005, 09:01 AM

i dont see how u do anything after deads

**Papi93** · 08-03-2005, 09:46 PM

[QUOTE=Keyser Sozey]
4 sets wide grip chins
4 sets wide grip pulldowns btn (I have been doin it btn for years)
3 sets bbell rows
4 sets deadlifts
3 sets low pulley rows
3 sets low back ext

By reducing your volume, your strength and muscle mass should go up. By taking the machines out, you should still burn a tremendous amount of calories. Sometimes, unless you adjust your caloric intake, you will gain bodyfat by substituting a free weight exercise for a machine exercise. Some might be scratching their head at this comment.

Think about it. Do you think you will burn more calories doing a deadlift or a back extension? Even a stiff-legged deadlift would smoke a back extension in terms of caloric expenditure. With free weights, the stabilizers are called into play more and thus, more overall muscle mass. Anyway, here's what I would recommend:

4 sets deadlifts
4 sets bbell rows
4 sets weighted wide grip chins

**Keyser Sozey** · 08-05-2005, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by striker93

[ With free weights, the stabilizers are called into play more and thus, more overall muscle mass. Anyway, here's what I would recommend:

4 sets deadlifts
4 sets bbell rows
4 sets weighted wide grip chins

Thanks for your input striker93. I actually did back two days ago (Wed), and had to finish up w/ deads....I ran out of gas...No way I could've done anything else.

My new routine is almost like the one you recommended, but backwards, plus one extra exercise. (I can't help myself, must feed the overtrainer inside me)

4 sets weighted wide grip chins
4 sets bbel rows
3 sets dbell rows/ row machine
4 sets deadlifts

**Papi93** · 08-05-2005, 09:44 PM

If you were going to add an exercise, I'm glad it's an exercise designed primarily for the upper back (db rows). We all need some extra upper back work to balance out our overzealous pec workouts. Good luck bro!

**diesel21** · 08-08-2005, 07:31 AM

if you want your lats to grow, get on the weight assisted pull up machine, get to a weight where you can do 12-15 reps really slow, watch your lats grow, its amazing..incorporate this in your back routine for a month, you will def see a difference.. make sure u are using ur lats when doing this

**Keyser Sozey** · 08-08-2005, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by diesel21

if you want your lats to grow, get on the weight assisted pull up machine, get to a weight where you can do 12-15 reps really slow, watch your lats grow, its amazing..incorporate this in your back routine for a month, you will def see a difference.. make sure u are using ur lats when doing this

Thanks diesel21.

**slob** · 08-09-2005, 03:35 AM

here's what my back routine looks like.
maybe u can try it?

3 sets of wide grip chin ups
3 sets of barbell rows OR one arm dumbell rows
3 sets of lat pulldowns
3 sets of seated cable pulleys
3 sets of deadlifts (HEAVYYYYYYYYY)

i know.. 15 sets.. but it works for me and thats the bottom line. My back is very strong for my size and build so i work it like a b*tch.
i sometimes cut out one exercise and only do 4 if i am going to go super heavy on the deadlifts.
give that a try dude! see if it works 4 u

**Darkness** · 08-09-2005, 12:05 PM

I have to do a least 15 sets for big muscles or else I feel like I didnt train them right. And yes I go heavy on all of them with the correct rep ranges and right tempo.

**chest6** · 08-09-2005, 04:24 PM

do not pull behind your head

**Keyser Sozey** · 08-10-2005, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by chest6

do not pull behind your head

Yeah, I have already cut out behind the neck pulldowns, as well as btn barbell press. I'm pretty sure the btn bbell press is one of the reasons why I have nasty shoulder pain. Before my injury in Jan, I was slamming 295lbs on btn bbell press for 4 reps (2 sets).
Anyway, Only to the front for me.

Btw, thanks for all the other replies fellas