Thread: Overtraining and the CNS
10-26-2005, 08:19 AM #1New Member
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- Oct 2005
Overtraining and the CNS
I know that overtraining can cause negative influences on the CNS and the body. But HOW does overtraining manifest itself on the body???
What are the physical effects of overtraining? Is it similiar to getting sick?
10-26-2005, 09:01 AM #2Originally Posted by sanejim
1 not sleeping properly, 8 hours is good,
2 you training Intensely, but you nutritional protocol in not in order,
3 you suffer with bad D.O.M.S for days at a time, but still no visible muscle growth,
4 you feel lethargic and donít look forward to training,
5 lack of hypertrophy,
6 training to long!! people these days donít seem to no when to stop,
7 hitting biceps and triceps with 20sets that will do itÖ..
There are many more that Iím sure other people will mention...Much of the effect on the nervous system is probably the result of the effects on the immune system.
A Article by SMITH, L. L.
SMITH, L. L. Cytokine hypothesis of overtraining: a physiological adaptation to excessive stress? Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., Vol. 32, No. 2, pp. 317?331, 2000. Overtraining syndrome (OTS) is a condition wherein an athlete is training excessively, yet performance deteriorates. This is usually accompanied by mood/behavior changes and a variety of biochemical and physiological alterations. Presently, there is no global hypothesis to account for OTS. The present paper will attempt to provide a unifying paradigm that will
integrate previous research under the rubric of the cytokine hypothesis of overtraining. It is argued that high volume/intensity training, with insufficient rest, will produce muscle and/or skeletal and/or joint trauma. Circulating monocytes are then activated by injuryrelated cytokines, and in turn produce large quantities of proinflammatory IL-1b, and/or IL-6, and/or TNF-a, producing systemic
inflammation. Elevated circulating cytokines then co-ordinate the whole-body response by: a) communicating with the CNS and inducing a set of behaviors referred to as ?sickness? behavior, which involves mood and behavior changes that support resolution of systemic inflammation; b) adjusting liver function, to support the up-regulation of gluconeogenesis, as well as de novo synthesis of
acute phase proteins, and a concomitant hypercatabolic state; and c) impacting on immune function. Theoretically, OTS is viewed as the third stage of Selye?s general adaptation syndrome, with the focus being on recovery/survival, and not adaptation, and is deemed
to be ?protective,? occurring in response to excessive physical/physiological stress. Recommendations are made for potential markers of OTS, based on a systemic inflammatory condition. Key Words: INTERLEUKIN-1b, INTERLEUKIN-6, TUMOR NECROSIS FACTOR-a, ACUTE PHASE PROTEINS, TISSUE TRAUMA
The Summary from the full paper reads:
It is suggested that the overtraining syndrome is a response to excessive musculoskeletal stress, associated with
insufficient rest and recovery, which may induce a local acute inflammatory response that may evolve into chronic
inflammation and produce systemic inflammation. Part of systemic inflammation involves activation of circulating monocytes, which may synthesize large quantities of proinflammatory cytokines, IL-1b, IL-6, and TNF-a. The cytokines act on the CNS and induce a cluster of motivated
behaviors, commonly referred to as ?sickness? behavior (reduced appetite, depression, etc.), which is conducive to
healing/recuperation. The cytokines also activate the sympathetic nervous system and hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal
axis, while suppressing activity of hypothalamic-pituitarygonadal
axis, thus accounting for changes in blood levels of catecholamines, glucocorticoids, and gonadal hormones.
Pro-inflammatory cytokines also up-regulate liver function, to maintain blood glucose levels (gluconeogenesis), and to synthesize inflammatory-related acute phase proteins. Immune-
related changes may be related to an immuno-suppression, possibly due to anti-inflammatory factors that accompany
a pro-inflammatory response, that occurs in response to tissue trauma.
Thus, if OTS is viewed under the rubric of systemic inflammation, it is possible to reconcile a variety of previously
proposed mechanisms. It is hoped that future research pertaining to OTS, will examine the role of systemic inflammatory markers to test this hypothesis.
Last edited by S.P.G; 10-26-2005 at 09:53 AM.
10-26-2005, 12:31 PM #3New Member
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- Oct 2005
Thank you SPG,
you are a wealth of knowledge!
I'm your typical ectomorph. I have been training pretty intensely for the past 3-4 months so that I can finally put some muscle on my skinny frame. I've got nutrion down pack I think (consuming roughy 3500 clean calories a day - with about 200grams protein). I've gone from 155 - 168 during this time. I've been working out every 48hours for about an hour.
Lately I've been feeling kind of sick. Mostly stomach aches and naseua. I was wondering if the naseua could possibly be caused by overtraining? Perhaps I should take a week or two off.
10-27-2005, 06:32 AM #4Originally Posted by sanejim
10-27-2005, 07:10 AM #5New Member
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- Oct 2005
Probably just caught a virus.
Thanks for your help.
01-03-2006, 02:02 PM #6
i was thinking overtraining is causing my mood swings im real irritable after working out i think i just might need to eat more could this be a possibility
01-03-2006, 02:09 PM #7Banned
Originally Posted by amstaf
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- Aug 2004
01-03-2006, 02:15 PM #8
i see so im just a crabby s.o.b who needs more rest i can live with that
01-04-2006, 08:49 AM #9
01-04-2006, 09:56 AM #10
i Always get moods,,,random phases of depression,,very tired,,all i want to do is rest
01-04-2006, 01:29 PM #11
I can be moody..shit give me a break i have been cutting for 400 years.
01-04-2006, 01:31 PM #12
Types of overtraining...
Named after Addison's Disease, in which the adrenal and pituitary glands malfunction. Some of the symptoms reasemble the disease. This form of overtraining usually effects older or advanced athletes. It includes a slightly overtired feeling but no increase in sleep needs, no weight loss, unusually low resting pulse rate, normal metabolic rate, higher blood pressure, but normal temperature and no psycholgical changes.
Named after Basedow's Disease in which thyroid function is too high. Symptoms include tiring easily, reduced appetite and weight loss, needing more sleep, a fast resting pulse rate, higher temperature and blood pressure, slower reaction time and inability to perform skill movements. Most common in strength althletes and explosive athletes like sprinters, jumpers and lifters. It also common in young athletes, less advanced and the easily excitable.
1. Develop a schedule that does not stress you.
2. Develop a rational training program - based on your stage of progress.
3. Conform your workouts to cycle training principles or periodization.
4. Vary your training methods.
5. Sleep 8-10 hours per night (or less with a daytime power nap).
6. Follow sound nutritional practices.
7. Make the athlete/coach connection and work together (a coach should be able to recognize early signs of overtraining... if you let it go too long it can get progressivly worst).
8. A 20 minute power nap is sometimes all it takes to reguvenate you (taking a short rest before going to the gym during late training hours works wonders).
9. Monitor blood pressure, morning pulse rate and other signs of overtraining.
10. Let logic - not ego - rule your training.
11. After workouts, whirl pool effected muscles and then massage for a minute or two.
One of the most common mistakes I see is people using advanced splits beyond there current development. If you are a beginner - work like a beginner... if you are advanced - it takes a more polished overall program to keep progressing and not overtraining. Working correctly for your stage will help you progress faster and avoid overtraining.
If you think you may be overtrained you should back off and reevaluate your training split. You may need some time off too - if you are severly overtrained you may need 1-2 weeks to rest and recover.
01-04-2006, 01:47 PM #13
01-04-2006, 02:28 PM #14Originally Posted by Warrior
"if you are severly overtrained you may need 1-2 weeks to rest and recover."
Say you've been training just about everyday for 5 months all out and you took 1 weeks off, wouldn't I lose the muscle that I just gained, Or would I actually grow and get much bigger?
My muscles shrink very fast if I don't lift. If I don't do anything (weightwise) for 2 months I can lose up to 20lbs+ of mostly muscle. It's so hard to take days off, I feel like I'm lazy or cheating myself from gaining.
So basically I'm asking would 3 days of rest make me bigger more so than if I lifted for another 3 days being in my situation though.
01-04-2006, 03:35 PM #15Banned
Originally Posted by Hellmask
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- Aug 2004
It isn't actual size, take a rest!!!! Its not possible to lose muscle that quickly, especially if your diet is in check. It sounds as if you are obssessed with lifting, you need to take rest.
01-04-2006, 10:03 PM #16Originally Posted by Hellmask
Basically when looking at the curve in an anaerobic sense, think of it like this:
Stage I: You go to the gym and balls out on biceps. This creates a stimulus followed by a fatique effect that drops your performance ability... if you went back a couple hours and tried to work them again you would feel sluggish and motivation would be low... and the muscle would not be recovered.
Stage II: At this point, your body bgeins to repair and return to normal homeostatis. It begins recovery. If you lift hard and heavy everyday with full intensity but not enough rest, you will continuely be stuck at this stage... AKA, no progress.
Stage III: This is where the difference happens. The system will overcompensate to allow more ATP/CP stores for greater energy and increased performance. Hitting the highest peak of this supercompensation is the goal.
Stage IV: But, if you decide to take some time off and no longer give your system the stimulus to keep the gains - it will return to normal levels and detraining begins.
REMEMBER: Everyone's curve is different, depending on ability to recover, diet, sleep, so forth. But when you keep all those variables consistent you can find the point where you curve peaks and keep reaching for a genetic potential with continuous gains.
Aerobic/cardiovascular training has a shorter curve (requiring less rest) then anerobic strength or hypertrophy training.
How the use of AAS effects this curve - I am not sure. But I am pretty convinced that overcompensation becomes increased and the curve shortens at the I and II stages - increaseing stage III which would result in a longer time to return to normal homeostatis (stage IV).
READ THIS THREAD where I went into it a bit deeper (threads old - but the info is still applicable)...
01-04-2006, 10:11 PM #17Originally Posted by Hellmask
So yes, 3 days - or 7 - of rest can lead to growth by putting the supercompensation curve back in your favor - with better peaks... and if you really needed the break - it can stop you from being stuck in an environment that is catabolic physically and mentally.
I know its hard to not go to the gym sometimes - but at times, you need the break... just have to know how to seperate negative influences from a serious oncoming case of overtraining...
01-05-2006, 01:46 AM #18
Good stuf Warrior....your not a vet for nothing.
Last edited by S.P.G; 01-05-2006 at 12:14 PM.
01-05-2006, 10:29 AM #19Originally Posted by Warrior
Thanks for all the good info.
But what about cardio, lets say sprints/jogging/walking, can I do these on my days off from lifting and still gain size?
01-05-2006, 10:39 AM #20Originally Posted by Hellmask
01-05-2006, 10:48 AM #21Originally Posted by Warrior
Yeah everyones different I understand.
I'll do some light cardio maybe , if I feel good.
Lately so many people have been telling me how much leaner I'm getting it makes me want to lift more, but my strength has not increased and is kinda decreasing. My arms and fingers are shaking like a leaf all the time.
Overtrainings a bitch.
Thanks for the help warrior and others , I appreciate it.
12-09-2006, 01:35 AM #222/3 Deca 1/3 Test
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- Apr 2005
Bump as well. *Need to re read when I get home.
08-14-2008, 04:37 PM #23
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