Overtraining and the CNS

[sanejim]

I know that overtraining can cause negative influences on the CNS and the body. But HOW does overtraining manifest itself on the body???

What are the physical effects of overtraining? Is it similiar to getting sick?

[S.P.G]

I know that overtraining can cause negative influences on the CNS and the body. But HOW does overtraining manifest itself on the body???

What are the physical effects of overtraining? Is it similiar to getting sick?

Overtraining can be coursed by a number of things, in and out of the gym, every ones different, you have to find the frequency, volume, intensity, that works for your genetics, if your not a genetic freak and are a average ectomorph to endomorph some rules may apply to you and others, over-training can be coursed by some of the following,, and some symptoms

1 not sleeping properly, 8 hours is good,
2 you training Intensely, but you nutritional protocol in not in order,
3 you suffer with bad D.O.M.S for days at a time, but still no visible muscle growth,
4 you feel lethargic and don’t look forward to training,
5 lack of hypertrophy,
6 training to long!! people these days don’t seem to no when to stop,
7 hitting biceps and triceps with 20sets that will do it…..

There are many more that I’m sure other people will mention...Much of the effect on the nervous system is probably the result of the effects on the immune system.


A Article by SMITH, L. L.
ABSTRACT

SMITH, L. L. Cytokine hypothesis of overtraining: a physiological adaptation to excessive stress? Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., Vol. 32, No. 2, pp. 317?331, 2000. Overtraining syndrome (OTS) is a condition wherein an athlete is training excessively, yet performance deteriorates. This is usually accompanied by mood/behavior changes and a variety of biochemical and physiological alterations. Presently, there is no global hypothesis to account for OTS. The present paper will attempt to provide a unifying paradigm that will
integrate previous research under the rubric of the cytokine hypothesis of overtraining. It is argued that high volume/intensity training, with insufficient rest, will produce muscle and/or skeletal and/or joint trauma. Circulating monocytes are then activated by injuryrelated cytokines, and in turn produce large quantities of proinflammatory IL-1b, and/or IL-6, and/or TNF-a, producing systemic
inflammation. Elevated circulating cytokines then co-ordinate the whole-body response by: a) communicating with the CNS and inducing a set of behaviors referred to as ?sickness? behavior, which involves mood and behavior changes that support resolution of systemic inflammation; b) adjusting liver function, to support the up-regulation of gluconeogenesis, as well as de novo synthesis of
acute phase proteins, and a concomitant hypercatabolic state; and c) impacting on immune function. Theoretically, OTS is viewed as the third stage of Selye?s general adaptation syndrome, with the focus being on recovery/survival, and not adaptation, and is deemed
to be ?protective,? occurring in response to excessive physical/physiological stress. Recommendations are made for potential markers of OTS, based on a systemic inflammatory condition. Key Words: INTERLEUKIN-1b, INTERLEUKIN-6, TUMOR NECROSIS FACTOR-a, ACUTE PHASE PROTEINS, TISSUE TRAUMA

The Summary from the full paper reads:

Summary

It is suggested that the overtraining syndrome is a response to excessive musculoskeletal stress, associated with
insufficient rest and recovery, which may induce a local acute inflammatory response that may evolve into chronic
inflammation and produce systemic inflammation. Part of systemic inflammation involves activation of circulating monocytes, which may synthesize large quantities of proinflammatory cytokines, IL-1b, IL-6, and TNF-a. The cytokines act on the CNS and induce a cluster of motivated
behaviors, commonly referred to as ?sickness? behavior (reduced appetite, depression, etc.), which is conducive to
healing/recuperation. The cytokines also activate the sympathetic nervous system and hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal
axis, while suppressing activity of hypothalamic-pituitarygonadal
axis, thus accounting for changes in blood levels of catecholamines, glucocorticoids, and gonadal hormones.
Pro-inflammatory cytokines also up-regulate liver function, to maintain blood glucose levels (gluconeogenesis), and to synthesize inflammatory-related acute phase proteins. Immune-
related changes may be related to an immuno-suppression, possibly due to anti-inflammatory factors that accompany
a pro-inflammatory response, that occurs in response to tissue trauma.
Thus, if OTS is viewed under the rubric of systemic inflammation, it is possible to reconcile a variety of previously
proposed mechanisms. It is hoped that future research pertaining to OTS, will examine the role of systemic inflammatory markers to test this hypothesis.

[sanejim]

Thank you SPG,
you are a wealth of knowledge!

I'm your typical ectomorph. I have been training pretty intensely for the past 3-4 months so that I can finally put some muscle on my skinny frame. I've got nutrion down pack I think (consuming roughy 3500 clean calories a day - with about 200grams protein). I've gone from 155 - 168 during this time. I've been working out every 48hours for about an hour.

Lately I've been feeling kind of sick. Mostly stomach aches and naseua. I was wondering if the naseua could possibly be caused by overtraining? Perhaps I should take a week or two off.

[S.P.G]

Thank you SPG,
you are a wealth of knowledge!

I'm your typical ectomorph. I have been training pretty intensely for the past 3-4 months so that I can finally put some muscle on my skinny frame. I've got nutrion down pack I think (consuming roughy 3500 clean calories a day - with about 200grams protein). I've gone from 155 - 168 during this time. I've been working out every 48hours for about an hour.

Lately I've been feeling kind of sick. Mostly stomach aches and naseua. I was wondering if the naseua could possibly be caused by overtraining? Perhaps I should take a week or two off.

I honestly don’t think its overtraining that is causing the sickness I haven’t ever heard of someone getting physically sick from training, except through intensity ect, ect, maybe you should see a doc, if it continues

[sanejim]

Probably just caught a virus.
Thanks for your help.

[amstaf]

i was thinking overtraining is causing my mood swings im real irritable after working out i think i just might need to eat more could this be a possibility

[Flexor]

i was thinking overtraining is causing my mood swings im real irritable after working out i think i just might need to eat more could this be a possibility

Its more likely that you are just knackered, and when people are knackered they get irritable. Its not necessarily overtraining, although it could be. Eating probably has little to do with it unless you are fasting.

[amstaf]

i see so im just a crabby s.o.b who needs more rest i can live with that

[S.P.G]

i was thinking overtraining is causing my mood swings im real irritable after working out i think i just might need to eat more could this be a possibility

I always suffer from moods ect, ect, after a workot, its the raised testosterone levels that do it....

[BIGPHIL]

i Always get moods,,,random phases of depression,,very tired,,all i want to do is rest

[Panzerfaust]

I can be moody..shit give me a break i have been cutting for 400 years.

[Warrior]

Types of overtraining...

Addisonic Overtraining

Named after Addison's Disease, in which the adrenal and pituitary glands malfunction. Some of the symptoms reasemble the disease. This form of overtraining usually effects older or advanced athletes. It includes a slightly overtired feeling but no increase in sleep needs, no weight loss, unusually low resting pulse rate, normal metabolic rate, higher blood pressure, but normal temperature and no psycholgical changes.

Basedowic Overtraining

Named after Basedow's Disease in which thyroid function is too high. Symptoms include tiring easily, reduced appetite and weight loss, needing more sleep, a fast resting pulse rate, higher temperature and blood pressure, slower reaction time and inability to perform skill movements. Most common in strength althletes and explosive athletes like sprinters, jumpers and lifters. It also common in young athletes, less advanced and the easily excitable.

AVOIDING OVERTRAINING
1. Develop a schedule that does not stress you.
2. Develop a rational training program - based on your stage of progress.
3. Conform your workouts to cycle training principles or periodization.
4. Vary your training methods.
5. Sleep 8-10 hours per night (or less with a daytime power nap).
6. Follow sound nutritional practices.
7. Make the athlete/coach connection and work together (a coach should be able to recognize early signs of overtraining... if you let it go too long it can get progressivly worst).
8. A 20 minute power nap is sometimes all it takes to reguvenate you (taking a short rest before going to the gym during late training hours works wonders).
9. Monitor blood pressure, morning pulse rate and other signs of overtraining.
10. Let logic - not ego - rule your training.
11. After workouts, whirl pool effected muscles and then massage for a minute or two.

One of the most common mistakes I see is people using advanced splits beyond there current development. If you are a beginner - work like a beginner... if you are advanced - it takes a more polished overall program to keep progressing and not overtraining. Working correctly for your stage will help you progress faster and avoid overtraining.

If you think you may be overtrained you should back off and reevaluate your training split. You may need some time off too - if you are severly overtrained you may need 1-2 weeks to rest and recover.

[bazerk]

Great Thread...bump.

[Hellmaskbanned]

Types of overtraining...

Addisonic Overtraining

Named after Addison's Disease, in which the adrenal and pituitary glands malfunction. Some of the symptoms reasemble the disease. This form of overtraining usually effects older or advanced athletes. It includes a slightly overtired feeling but no increase in sleep needs, no weight loss, unusually low resting pulse rate, normal metabolic rate, higher blood pressure, but normal temperature and no psycholgical changes.

Basedowic Overtraining

Named after Basedow's Disease in which thyroid function is too high. Symptoms include tiring easily, reduced appetite and weight loss, needing more sleep, a fast resting pulse rate, higher temperature and blood pressure, slower reaction time and inability to perform skill movements. Most common in strength althletes and explosive athletes like sprinters, jumpers and lifters. It also common in young athletes, less advanced and the easily excitable.

AVOIDING OVERTRAINING
1. Develop a schedule that does not stress you.
2. Develop a rational training program - based on your stage of progress.
3. Conform your workouts to cycle training principles or periodization.
4. Vary your training methods.
5. Sleep 8-10 hours per night (or less with a daytime power nap).
6. Follow sound nutritional practices.
7. Make the athlete/coach connection and work together (a coach should be able to recognize early signs of overtraining... if you let it go too long it can get progressivly worst).
8. A 20 minute power nap is sometimes all it takes to reguvenate you (taking a short rest before going to the gym during late training hours works wonders).
9. Monitor blood pressure, morning pulse rate and other signs of overtraining.
10. Let logic - not ego - rule your training.
11. After workouts, whirl pool effected muscles and then massage for a minute or two.

One of the most common mistakes I see is people using advanced splits beyond there current development. If you are a beginner - work like a beginner... if you are advanced - it takes a more polished overall program to keep progressing and not overtraining. Working correctly for your stage will help you progress faster and avoid overtraining.

If you think you may be overtrained you should back off and reevaluate your training split. You may need some time off too - if you are severly overtrained you may need 1-2 weeks to rest and recover.

Nice post.

"if you are severly overtrained you may need 1-2 weeks to rest and recover."

Say you've been training just about everyday for 5 months all out and you took 1 weeks off, wouldn't I lose the muscle that I just gained, Or would I actually grow and get much bigger?

My muscles shrink very fast if I don't lift. If I don't do anything (weightwise) for 2 months I can lose up to 20lbs+ of mostly muscle. It's so hard to take days off, I feel like I'm lazy or cheating myself from gaining.

So basically I'm asking would 3 days of rest make me bigger more so than if I lifted for another 3 days being in my situation though.

[Flexor]

Say you've been training just about everyday for 5 months all out and you took 1 weeks off, wouldn't I lose the muscle that I just gained, Or would I actually grow and get much bigger?

My muscles shrink very fast if I don't lift. If I don't do anything (weightwise) for 2 months I can lose up to 20lbs+ of mostly muscle. It's so hard to take days off, I feel like I'm lazy or cheating myself from gaining.

So basically I'm asking would 3 days of rest make me bigger more so than if I lifted for another 3 days being in my situation though.

If your muscles shrink that quickly, they are in a constant state of transient hypertrophy because you are working them too hard. If there is a noticable loss in size after one week, that just isn't normal. With all the overtraining you do, your muscles are staying constantly swollen with blood plasma.

It isn't actual size, take a rest!!!! Its not possible to lose muscle that quickly, especially if your diet is in check. It sounds as if you are obssessed with lifting, you need to take rest.

[Warrior]

Nice post.

"if you are severly overtrained you may need 1-2 weeks to rest and recover."

Say you've been training just about everyday for 5 months all out and you took 1 weeks off, wouldn't I lose the muscle that I just gained, Or would I actually grow and get much bigger?

My muscles shrink very fast if I don't lift. If I don't do anything (weightwise) for 2 months I can lose up to 20lbs+ of mostly muscle. It's so hard to take days off, I feel like I'm lazy or cheating myself from gaining.

So basically I'm asking would 3 days of rest make me bigger more so than if I lifted for another 3 days being in my situation though.

This is your typical road map to gains:


Basically when looking at the curve in an anaerobic sense, think of it like this:

Stage I: You go to the gym and balls out on biceps. This creates a stimulus followed by a fatique effect that drops your performance ability... if you went back a couple hours and tried to work them again you would feel sluggish and motivation would be low... and the muscle would not be recovered.

Stage II: At this point, your body bgeins to repair and return to normal homeostatis. It begins recovery. If you lift hard and heavy everyday with full intensity but not enough rest, you will continuely be stuck at this stage... AKA, no progress.

Stage III: This is where the difference happens. The system will overcompensate to allow more ATP/CP stores for greater energy and increased performance. Hitting the highest peak of this supercompensation is the goal.

Stage IV: But, if you decide to take some time off and no longer give your system the stimulus to keep the gains - it will return to normal levels and detraining begins.

REMEMBER: Everyone's curve is different, depending on ability to recover, diet, sleep, so forth. But when you keep all those variables consistent you can find the point where you curve peaks and keep reaching for a genetic potential with continuous gains.

Aerobic/cardiovascular training has a shorter curve (requiring less rest) then anerobic strength or hypertrophy training.

How the use of AAS effects this curve - I am not sure. But I am pretty convinced that overcompensation becomes increased and the curve shortens at the I and II stages - increaseing stage III which would result in a longer time to return to normal homeostatis (stage IV).

READ THIS THREAD where I went into it a bit deeper (threads old - but the info is still applicable)...

[Warrior]

Say you've been training just about everyday for 5 months all out and you took 1 weeks off, wouldn't I lose the muscle that I just gained, Or would I actually grow and get much bigger?

BTW - based no good studies, one week is not long enough for a conditioned man to detrain. And if you are running the risk of overtraining (symptoms are apparent), the week off will lead to more gains by reguvenating your system... letting it focus more on repair without further destruction...

So yes, 3 days - or 7 - of rest can lead to growth by putting the supercompensation curve back in your favor - with better peaks... and if you really needed the break - it can stop you from being stuck in an environment that is catabolic physically and mentally.

I know its hard to not go to the gym sometimes - but at times, you need the break... just have to know how to seperate negative influences from a serious oncoming case of overtraining...

[S.P.G]

Good stuf Warrior....your not a vet for nothing.

[Hellmaskbanned]

BTW - based no good studies, one week is not long enough for a conditioned man to detrain. And if you are running the risk of overtraining (symptoms are apparent), the week off will lead to more gains by reguvenating your system... letting it focus more on repair without further destruction...

So yes, 3 days - or 7 - of rest can lead to growth by putting the supercompensation curve back in your favor - with better peaks... and if you really needed the break - it can stop you from being stuck in an environment that is catabolic physically and mentally.

I know its hard to not go to the gym sometimes - but at times, you need the break... just have to know how to seperate negative influences from a serious oncoming case of overtraining...

Thanks for all the good info.


But what about cardio, lets say sprints/jogging/walking, can I do these on my days off from lifting and still gain size?

[Warrior]

Thanks for all the good info.


But what about cardio, lets say sprints/jogging/walking, can I do these on my days off from lifting and still gain size?

I'm not your trainer and don't know much about you or where you are at with things... but for a generalized answer - yes. Seperating them is best since aerobic work can rob your anaerobic workouts of vital fast fuel sources. If you up your cardio (or even start allowing less rest days and increase training volume) and you want to continue to make gains in strength (or retain strength for that matter) it really is best to keep a workout journal with reps, sets, load and times, without one you can start losing your strength without even realizing it... and you'll better learn what you can get away with. Some people can't touoch cardio and expect to gain strength - others require it.

[Hellmaskbanned]

I'm not your trainer and don't know much about you or where you are at with things... but for a generalized answer - yes. Seperating them is best since aerobic work can rob your anaerobic workouts of vital fast fuel sources. If you up your cardio (or even start allowing less rest days and increase training volume) and you want to continue to make gains in strength (or retain strength for that matter) it really is best to keep a workout journal with reps, sets, load and times, without one you can start losing your strength without even realizing it... and you'll better learn what you can get away with. Some people can't touoch cardio and expect to gain strength - others require it.

Yeah everyones different I understand.
I'll do some light cardio maybe , if I feel good.
Lately so many people have been telling me how much leaner I'm getting it makes me want to lift more, but my strength has not increased and is kinda decreasing. My arms and fingers are shaking like a leaf all the time.

Overtrainings a bitch.

Thanks for the help warrior and others , I appreciate it.

[guest589745]

Bump as well. *Need to re read when I get home.

[dehydromethandrotren]

bump