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  1. #1
    kaptainkeezy04's Avatar
    kaptainkeezy04 is offline Anabolic Member
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    Please give advice on workout split.

    Okay so my chest is deffinitely lagging behind the rest of my body parts and definitely the weekest. I am starting to get that hunched over look because my back is so big and chest is lagging. I would like to start hitting it twice a week. First workout should be heavy and all freeweights with two light warmup sets and about 12 working sets...second workout is lighter but i will really squeeze out every rep and force a lot of blood into the muscle and I will do 2 warmup sets, 9 sets on machines, and then i will do 4 sets to work the serratus and superset it with 4 sets of stomach crunches because I might as well be working them instead of just sitting around. Now my main concern is still being able to hit chest twice while maintaining my 5 day split. So I will probably have to do two workouts in one day to be able to do this. so here is my current split...

    Sunday-AM Cardio, PM Bis and tris and abs
    Monday-Legs
    Tuesday-Cardio
    Wednesday-Chest, delts and abs
    Thursday-Back and Traps
    Friday-Cardio
    Saturday-Start split over with AM cardio, PM bis, tris

    Now is it possible to work the chest in the somewhere like during the AM and keep it seperated from my heavy chest workout so that I dont have to work it while being sore? Or Am I gonna need to start having a full week split like....

    Sunday-AM cardio, PM Bis, tris, and abs
    Monday-Legs
    Tuesday-Cardio
    Wednesday-Chest (all freeweights) and abs
    Thursday-Cardio, Back and Traps
    Friday-Rest
    Saturday-chest (machines) and abs

    Now if I chose to do the 7 day split, I could do more sets for bis, tris, legs, and back since they will not be worked as often. Is this a good idea?

  2. #2
    kaptainkeezy04's Avatar
    kaptainkeezy04 is offline Anabolic Member
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    forgive me if i left out information or some parts didnt make sense because i am supertired and going to bed RIGHT NOW.

  3. #3
    znak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaptainkeezy04
    Okay so my chest is deffinitely lagging behind the rest of my body parts and definitely the weekest. I am starting to get that hunched over look because my back is so big and chest is lagging. I would like to start hitting it twice a week. First workout should be heavy and all freeweights with two light warmup sets and about 12 working sets...second workout is lighter but i will really squeeze out every rep and force a lot of blood into the muscle and I will do 2 warmup sets, 9 sets on machines, and then i will do 4 sets to work the serratus and superset it with 4 sets of stomach crunches because I might as well be working them instead of just sitting around. Now my main concern is still being able to hit chest twice while maintaining my 5 day split. So I will probably have to do two workouts in one day to be able to do this. so here is my current split...

    Sunday-AM Cardio, PM Bis and tris and abs
    Monday-Legs
    Tuesday-Cardio
    Wednesday-Chest, delts and abs
    Thursday-Back and Traps
    Friday-Cardio
    Saturday-Start split over with AM cardio, PM bis, tris

    Now is it possible to work the chest in the somewhere like during the AM and keep it seperated from my heavy chest workout so that I dont have to work it while being sore? Or Am I gonna need to start having a full week split like....

    Sunday-AM cardio, PM Bis, tris, and abs
    Monday-Legs
    Tuesday-Cardio
    Wednesday-Chest (all freeweights) and abs
    Thursday-Cardio, Back and Traps
    Friday-Rest
    Saturday-chest (machines) and abs

    Now if I chose to do the 7 day split, I could do more sets for bis, tris, legs, and back since they will not be worked as often. Is this a good idea?
    Very good split to address lagging chest. If you do your workout on Wednesday morning, you will have three days to recover, which is usually enough unless you really pounded yourself unmercifully that day.

    Give it a go.

  4. #4
    *Narkissos*'s Avatar
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    I think the mistake trainees make with a lagging bodypart is to increase the number of sessions per week. That failing, to further increase the number of sessions per week.

    I,being one with a lagging chest myself, think that is a mistake.

    I've been trying a powerlifting technique for the last 6 weeks or so.

    I've cut down on my chest-training requency and volume..and changed my perception of training itself.

    Right now my chest routine is:

    Incline dumbell:

    Warmup sets: 3-4

    Worksets: 1-2

    Flat dumbell:

    Warm-up set: 1

    Worksets: 2

    Whereas the warm up sets are just to get the blood running (6-10 reps each)...and the worksets are for strength... 2-4 reps each set. I'm working at 90% of my one rep max and aiming for said rep range by use of forced reps if necessary.

    I think you give that a try before increasing volume or frequency... Try to get stronger as opposed to trying to get bigger.

    I think that's the way to deal with lagging bodyparts... Get them stronger and the size will follow.

    My max has gone up considerably since the inception.

  5. #5
    kaptainkeezy04's Avatar
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    thank you all for the advice...narkissos let me know how that works out for you and i will give it a try myself.

  6. #6
    Flexor is offline Banned
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    Narkissos, do you find that the dumbells are difficult to control at 90% your 1RM? I'd imagine that you would have to have two spotters either side and press in a slow and controlled manner to keep correct form. I have never used dumbells beyond 75% 1RM but have often gone to 90% on the flat barbell bench

  7. #7
    *Narkissos*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flexor
    Narkissos, do you find that the dumbells are difficult to control at 90% your 1RM? I'd imagine that you would have to have two spotters either side and press in a slow and controlled manner to keep correct form. I have never used dumbells beyond 75% 1RM but have often gone to 90% on the flat barbell bench
    Nah actually. I find it's more mental than physical...I visualise my sets before i go in...and adjust my breathing to facilitate supporting the weight on the negative portion.

    I have only one spotter...and he's behind me to spot me from under my elbows.

    It's working fine so far...thanks for asking keezy.

  8. #8
    znak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narkissos
    I think the mistake trainees make with a lagging bodypart is to increase the number of sessions per week. That failing, to further increase the number of sessions per week.

    I,being one with a lagging chest myself, think that is a mistake.
    I would make the same comment that I made on a different thread regarding low reps on squats. There is a huge difference in what an advance trainer could/should/might do to address a lagging body part, as compared to an intermediate or beginning lifter.

    While there is clearly the danger of over training, most lifters, especially beginners, under train. Doing two work outs a week on a major muscle group like the chest or back very rarely will lead to over training, but it will lead to getting a faster understanding of the "mind-body connection" and will build core strength more quickly.

    Doing heavy, low rep dumb bell exercises will build strength without a doubt, but they are also very injury prone exercises and should not even be considered until a lifter has a very, very sound foundation. (Flexor- when we do heavy DB presses, we have a spotter on each hand.)

    I have absolute repect for Narkissos opinion and think that he a super asset to this board and these comments are not meant to contradict him at all, he has probably just forgetten what it is like to be a mere mortal.

  9. #9
    Flexor is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by znak
    Flexor- when we do heavy DB presses, we have a spotter on each hand
    That's what I thought, Narkissos is apparantly the exception. I would never go heavy on any type of dumbell presses because of the stress on the shoulder. You only need to lower it or press it in a slightly wrong position or angle and OWWWW!

  10. #10
    *Narkissos*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flexor
    That's what I thought, Narkissos is apparantly the exception. I would never go heavy on any type of dumbell presses because of the stress on the shoulder. You only need to lower it or press it in a slightly wrong position or angle and OWWWW!
    That's where visualisation and the mind-muscle connection comes in...also...i don't explode on upper-body pressing exercises..keeps me safe.

    I visiualise the set prior to execution..mimicking the contraction with no weight...prior to the set to get the connection with my muscle..when i get the dumbells in position..i follow the exact same arc...emulating the exact same 'feel' as prior to the commencement of the set.


  11. #11
    *Narkissos*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by znak
    I would make the same comment that I made on a different thread regarding low reps on squats. There is a huge difference in what an advance trainer could/should/might do to address a lagging body part, as compared to an intermediate or beginning lifter.
    I think you've supported my argument from a perspective.

    An advanced trainer can tolerate higher volume...thus imo the best approach for an intermediate athelete to address a lagging bodypart, would be one that isn't higher in volume..Again..this is just my humble opinion.

    I'll concede that muscles are progressively overloaded via 4 main mechanisms:

    ¤increased weights
    ¤increased sets
    ¤shorter rest periods between sets (i.e. more work in a shorter time...re: increased intensity)
    ¤increased frequency (of workouts)

    I'll argue that increased weights (not volume) is the approach i'd advocate


    Quote Originally Posted by znak
    While there is clearly the danger of over training, most lifters, especially beginners, under train. Doing two work outs a week on a major muscle group like the chest or back very rarely will lead to over training, but it will lead to getting a faster understanding of the "mind-body connection" and will build core strength more quickly.
    I agree with what you've said here...but i must digress, as the person in question is not a beginner per se.



    Quote Originally Posted by znak
    Doing heavy, low rep dumb bell exercises will build strength without a doubt, but they are also very injury prone exercises and should not even be considered until a lifter has a very, very sound foundation. (Flexor- when we do heavy DB presses, we have a spotter on each hand.)
    Thought i respect your opinion and the point on safety that you're trying to make...I think that's a misconception...I think the prospect of injury lies in the execution of the exercise. Heavy is relative....relative to the execution of repetitions in good form. I concede the use of explosiveness on the positive portion of a rep is an advanced technique that could precipitate injury...that's why i didn't advocate it...as i myself use it selectively...and never on upper-body pressing movement(...but on lower body and pulling movements: deadlifts for example)




    Quote Originally Posted by znak
    I have absolute repect for Narkissos opinion and think that he a super asset to this board and these comments are not meant to contradict him at all, he has probably just forgetten what it is like to be a mere mortal.
    Me? Mortal? Blasphemy

    Thanks for the good words Znak...i've got mad respect for you

    ~Corey

  12. #12
    Flexor is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narkissos
    That's where visualisation and the mind-muscle connection comes in...also...i don't explode on upper-body pressing exercises..keeps me safe.

    I visiualise the set prior to execution..mimicking the contraction with no weight...prior to the set to get the connection with my muscle..when i get the dumbells in position..i follow the exact same arc...emulating the exact same 'feel' as prior to the commencement of the set.


    Mind-muscle connections, or proprioception, is fine in your case as safely is the primary reason for it.

    However, it shouldn't be relied wholly upon with regards to exercise in general. What we "feel" is based on the level of muscle shortening detected by the intrafusal spindle fibres which shorten with the muscle (but without contracting). Hence, if we 'feel' that our muscles are being worked better, it could simply be that they are shortening by a greater degree. Therefore its unreliable and innaccurate.

    Unfortunately, greater muscle shortening doesn't mean greater damage, because as the fibres shorten, the myosin and actin crossbridges are interferred with and muscle tension actually drops. The amount of damage is proportional to time under tension, not muscle shortening, and this is why isometrics and slow eccentric phases cause large levels of damage and subsequently, growth.

    In practise however, things are not so simple, and employing many varied techniques is best.

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