Is this overtraining or is this a good split?

[Tommy Gunn]

I revised my routine again. I'm 25 years old 6' 230. Every set I will increse the weight and the last set I will do to failure. I'm all natural (no anabolics, prohormones, or even creatine).

Four days a week

Day 1 Mon.

Deadlifts 4x5
Seated cable rows 12,10,8,6
Close grip lat pulldowns 12,10,8,6
Wide grip lat pulldowns 12,10,8,6
Incline hammer curls 12,10,8,6
Straight bar preacher curls 12,10,8,6

Day 2 Tues.

Flat dumbell press 10,8,6,4
Incline dumbell press 10,8,6,4
Flat dumbell flys 12,10,8,6
Dumbell internal rotation 14,12,10,8
Tricep pushdowns 12,10,8,6
4 way neck machine 4x10

Weds. OFF

Day 3 Thurs.

Squats 10,8,6,4
Leg extensions 12,10,8,6
Leg curls 12,10,8,6
Calve raises 14,12,10,8
Kneeling cable crunches 14,12,10,8
Dumbell side bends 14,12,10,8

Day 4 Fri.

Seated dumbell press 10,8,6,4
Seated front dumbell raises 14,12,10,8
Wide grip upright rows 10,8,6,4
Seated bent over reverse flys 14,12,10,8
Seated dumbell upright external rotation 14,12,10,8
Barbell shrugs 4x10

Sat. OFF

Sun. OFF

How does this routine look? Is this overtraining or is this a good split?

[ward065]

looks like a pretty solid routine to me, not overtraining. However, you can certainly take an extra break if you feel you need it- really, a lot of guys take a week off, or maybe just a few extra days, once in awhile.

[Tommy Gunn]

Anyone else?

[TR'05]

I think it looks pretty good. Id say it definately isn't over-training. Just remember to switch up the excercises and rep break downs every few weeks.

[juicyr6]

being you are completelly natural this routine could result in overtraining quickly. (depends on your genetics too and how much your body could handle)
you will most likelly overtrain your CNS before any specific muscle...remember there is the cns and the muscle fiber overtraining, just cause you didnt overtrain the muscle fiber per se your central nervous system could still be overtrain and hence you will plateau your gains quickly

[Tommy Gunn]

Is this any better?

Four days a week

Day 1 Mon.

Seated cable rows 12,10,8,6
Close grip lat pulldowns 12,10,8,6
Wide grip lat pulldowns 12,10,8,6
Incline hammer curls 12,10,8,6
Straight bar preacher curls 12,10,8,6

Day 2 Tues.

Flat dumbell press 10,8,6,4
Incline dumbell press 10,8,6,4
Tricep pushdowns 12,10,8,6
4 way neck machine 4x10

Weds. OFF

Day 3 Thurs.

Squats 10,8,6,4
Deadlifts 4x5
Leg extensions 12,10,8,6
Leg curls 12,10,8,6
Calve raises 14,12,10,8

Day 4 Fri.

Seated dumbell press 10,8,6,4
Wide grip upright rows 10,8,6,4
Seated bent over reverse flys 12,10,8,6
Seated dumbell upright external rotation 14,12,10,8
Barbell shrugs 4x10

Sat. OFF

Sun. OFF

[Tommy Gunn]

How does that look guys?

[juicyr6]

better, but you might want to eliminate one more exercises...listen to your body and for signs of overtraininig

[Tommy Gunn]

You think even my revised version would lead to overtraining?

[juicyr6]

less likelly than the other but, very possible...
ill tell ya right now, from experience and listeninig to my body, i would overtrain with that routine

[Tommy Gunn]

So what exercises do you suggest I cut out? Or should I cut the sets down to three? Or BOTH?

[juicyr6]

lat pulldowns...eliminate one...puck either close or wide.

tuesday is fine...i dont know why the 4-way neck machine though

thursday . eliminated 1 or 2 sets of leg extensions.

friday. eliminated the 4th exercise (sduer).

try that...and listen to your body, if you see no gains you might need to star eliminating things until; you start growing...remmeber when it comes to volume a lot of times less is better

[Tommy Gunn]

Thanks for all your help juicyr6, but I've decided that I'm just gonna drop the sets from 4 to 3.

So here it is:

Four days a week

Day 1 Mon.

Seated cable rows 10,8,6
Close grip lat pulldowns 10,8,6
Wide grip lat pulldowns 10,8,6
Incline hammer curls 12,10,8
Incline dumbell curls 12,10,8

Day 2 Tues.

Flat dumbell press 10,8,6
Incline dumbell press 10,8,6
Tricep pushdowns 12,10,8
4 way neck machine 3x10

Weds. OFF

Day 3 Thurs.

Squats 10,8,6
Deadlifts 3x5
Leg extensions 12,10,8
Leg curls 12,10,8
Calve raises 14,12,10

Day 4 Fri.

Seated dumbell press 10,8,6
Wide grip upright rows 10,8,6
Seated bent over reverse flys 12,10,8
Seated dumbell upright external rotation 14,12,10
Barbell shrugs 3x10

Sat. OFF

Sun. OFF

[Grudge Keeper]

looks good go 4 it and just listen to your body.

[Tommy Gunn]

OK, what about this?

Three days a week (alternate every week between Workout 1 and Workout 2)

Workout 1

Day 1 Mon.

Flat dumbell press 10,8,6
Seated dumbell press 10,8,6
Seated side lateral raises 12,10,8
Barbell shrugs 3x10
Tricep pushdowns (alternate every week between overhand straight bar, rope, and underhand straight bar) 12,10,8

Tues. OFF

Day 2 Weds.

Deadlifts 3x5
Leg extensions 12,10,8
Standing calve raises 14,12,10
4 way neck machine 3x10

Thurs. OFF

Day 3 Fri.

Seated cable rows (v-bar) 10,8,6
Wide grip lat pulldowns 10,8,6
Seated bent over reverse flys 12,10,8
Seated dumbell upright external rotation 14,12,10
Incline hammer curls 12,10,8

Sat. OFF

Sun. OFF

Workout 2

Day 1 Mon.

Incline dumbell press 10,8,6
Standing barbell front raises 12,10,8
Wide grip upright rows 10,8,6
Barbell shrugs 3x10
Tricep pushdowns (alternate every week between overhand straight bar, rope, and underhand straight bar) 12,10,8

Tues. OFF

Day 2 Weds.

Squats 10,8,6
Leg curls 12,10,8
Standing calve raises 14,12,10
4 way neck machine 3x10

Thurs. OFF

Day 3 Fri.

Seated cable rows (v-bar) 10,8,6
Close grip lat pulldowns 10,8,6
Seated bent over reverse flys 12,10,8
Seated dumbell upright external rotation 14,12,10
Incline dumbell curls 12,10,8

Sat. OFF

Sun. OFF

[PunkOff]

more is not always better, it usually isnt. i never do more then 3 excercises per musclegroup, there is no need for it.. like he said overtraining can honestly effect your growth