I need some advice

**xxxJUICExxx** · 12-31-2005, 04:28 AM

now i know im gonna get alot of criticism for this, but its ok. Thats why im here, 2 correct. Ive been workin out for about 4 years on and off. My stamina and routine is pretty solid, but i think my workout is way 2 intense...

monday- bis and back
16 sets - bis (4exercises-4sets)
16 sets - back(4exercises-4sets)

tuesday-chest
18 sets of chest (5 excercises extra sets on flys)

wednesday-tris and shoulders
16 sets-shoulders(4exercises-4sets)
16 sets-tris(4exercises-4sets)

thursday alternate

friday maybe cardio only or same as tuesday (depending on how i feel)
sat and sun off...

Now my body takes it, the next day i wakeup feeling great. I feel tight and sore (but good sore). Im trying 2 lose weight.....i hate cardio. the most i can do is 20 minutes, and i know ima need more than that. So the reason why i do such an intense workout is so i can sweat at least by lifting weights....

is my overworking my muscles inhibiting the growth i want...? any suggestions, criticisms, im ready....thx ahead guys for replying....

**Kale** · 12-31-2005, 04:32 AM

What about legs.? Looks like way overtraining to me, you can get a good result witha lot less sets

**S.P.G** · 12-31-2005, 04:43 AM

There is defiantly to much volume.

Cut back on some sets!! 16 for small muscles like biceps? You just don’t need to that much.

Your workout needs intensity it’s a important part of working out, but 16 sets for biceps isn’t intense its overtraining, 4-3 sets on biceps done with intensity is more than enough.

Not to mention stress on CNS.

Originally Posted by Kale

What about legs.?

HELL YEAR?????????????

**FIVE_8** · 12-31-2005, 04:46 AM

write down every exercise (the name of exercise) and how many sets and reps for each one. YOU NEED TO LIFT LEGS!!!!!!!!!!

**Warrior** · 12-31-2005, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by xxxJUICExxx

monday- bis and back
16 sets - bis (4exercises-4sets)
16 sets - back(4exercises-4sets)

tuesday-chest
18 sets of chest (5 excercises extra sets on flys)

wednesday-tris and shoulders
16 sets-shoulders(4exercises-4sets)
16 sets-tris(4exercises-4sets)

thursday alternate

friday maybe cardio only or same as tuesday (depending on how i feel)
sat and sun off...

Legs need some work.

Your total wworking sets is totally off, too many and too imbalanced. You do 18 sets for chest and 16 for back - back comprises more mass so it should need more sets than the other. And 16 sets for biceps - good Lord, can they really give you 100 percent through that? You are overtraining. Are you progressing with this type of high volume training?

You need to abreviate your training a bit and give yourself less movements and sets with more intensity and effort...

**Flexor** · 12-31-2005, 04:50 AM

All that chest work just before tris and shoulders is unbelieable. Put them all on the same day and cut the workout on chest and tris to half, and shoulders to a quarter.

**FIVE_8** · 12-31-2005, 04:51 AM

my routine:

monday:chest/ biceps
flat db-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
incline db-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
decline db-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
db chest flys-4 sets: 15 x 2, 12 x 2 (6 sec. negatives)
db hammers-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
reverse EZ bar curls-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
EZ bar curls-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2 (6 sec. negatives)

tues: off

wednesday:back
deadlifts-5 sets:10,8,6,4,failure w/ 135
t-bar rows-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
bent over rows-4 sets: 10 x 4
yates rows-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
reverse grip lat pull downs-2 sets: 15 x 2

thursday: off

friday:shoulders/ tricpes
military press-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
db press-4 sets: 10 x 4
up-right rows-4 sets: 15 x 1, 12 x 2, 10 x 1
side laterials-4 sets: 15 x 1, 12 x 2, 10 x 1
front laterial-4 sets: 15 x 1, 12 x 2, 10 x 1
skull crushers into close grip-4 sets: 10 each way
rope pull downs-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
bar pull downs-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
kick backs-1 set: failure

saturday:wheels
leg extensions-6 sets: 15 x 2, 12 x 2, 10 x 2
leg press/ hack squats-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
walking lunges-4 sets: 12 x 4
leg curls-5 sets: 15 x 1, 12 x 2, 10 x 2
calf raises DC style-4 sets

sunday: off

20-30 mins of cardio every other day of the week as well as abs. I am soon going to drop the heavier volume and do sets of 10, 8, 8, 6 when i start my cycle

**Flexor** · 12-31-2005, 04:54 AM

20 sets for shoulders, is too high. They are a small and medium sized muscle group at the most.

**FIVE_8** · 12-31-2005, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by Flexor

20 sets for shoulders, is too high. They are a small and medium sized muscle group at the most.

dude, you dont knwo what your talking about. I hit the shoulders from evry angle; front/ rear delts, traps, etc...

**S.P.G** · 12-31-2005, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by FIVE_8

dude, you dont knwo what your talking about

ROTFLMFAO

dude are you serious????

**FIVE_8** · 12-31-2005, 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by S.P.G

ROTFLMFAO

**Warrior** · 12-31-2005, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by Flexor

20 sets for shoulders, is too high. They are a small and medium sized muscle group at the most.

I agree - you can hit them from every angle and still be finished within 20-30 mikes.

A lot of really high volume routines today...

**S.P.G** · 12-31-2005, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by FIVE_8

my routine:

monday:chest/ biceps
flat db-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
incline db-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
decline db-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
db chest flys-4 sets: 15 x 2, 12 x 2 (6 sec. negatives)
db hammers-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
reverse EZ bar curls-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
EZ bar curls-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2 (6 sec. negatives)

tues: off

wednesday:back
deadlifts-5 sets:10,8,6,4,failure w/ 135
t-bar rows-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
bent over rows-4 sets: 10 x 4
yates rows-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
reverse grip lat pull downs-2 sets: 15 x 2

thursday: off

friday:shoulders/ tricpes
military press-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
db press-4 sets: 10 x 4
up-right rows-4 sets: 15 x 1, 12 x 2, 10 x 1
side laterials-4 sets: 15 x 1, 12 x 2, 10 x 1
front laterial-4 sets: 15 x 1, 12 x 2, 10 x 1
skull crushers into close grip-4 sets: 10 each way
rope pull downs-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
bar pull downs-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
kick backs-1 set: failure

saturday:wheels
leg extensions-6 sets: 15 x 2, 12 x 2, 10 x 2
leg press/ hack squats-4 sets: 12 x 2, 10 x 2
walking lunges-4 sets: 12 x 4
leg curls-5 sets: 15 x 1, 12 x 2, 10 x 2
calf raises DC style-4 sets

sunday: off

20-30 mins of cardio every other day of the week as well as abs. I am soon going to drop the heavier volume and do sets of 10, 8, 8, 6 when i start my cycle

1 Front laterals, as the anterior head gets a bashing with chest it is advisable to put the to together preventing this muscle being trained twice a week leading to overtraining.
2 No conventional squats ??
3 Add pull-ups to back.
4 Drop rope pull downs if size is your goal there are more productive exercises to use
5 Kick backs-1 set: failure…. my sister would do these.

6 And yes drop sets on shoulder.
7 I would drop sets on deads to.

To prevent overlapping of body parts I would do the split like this....
1 legs biceps
Off
Chest shoulder
Off
Back triceps

Originally Posted by Warrior

I agree - you can hit them from every angle and still be finished within 20-30 mikes.

A lot of really high volume routines today...

agreed....people just don’t know when to stop lol

**Warrior** · 12-31-2005, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by S.P.G

1 Front laterals, as the anterior head gets a bashing with chest it is advisable to put the to together preventing this muscle being trained twice a week leading to overtraining.

I am with ya on that - but doing Military Presses (Front Barbell Shoulder Presses) after some heavy Flat Benches, the Military Presses suffer. If I do Mil Presses on their own day I can add about 40 extra pounds to the bar. But you are right... just depends on the goals and you have to be careful how much you do. Shoulders have a high recovery ability - they are used constantly and have a lot of blood and oxygen running through them for rushing the required nutirents for a speedy recovery... you can see how fast they can recover when you compare doing drop sets with shoulders to doing drops with something like chest.

I am currently splitting Front (mil presses) and Posterior Delts (static lateral raises) with Chest Days and Rear Delts (static rev flyes) with Back days. When I want to focus more on adding strength to the Millitary Press... I work them on their own day with more working sets... personally I have to for progress, and can get working sets up to 265lbs Mil Press on their own day... but never go above 225 after a chest workout. The aternative is working them prior to beginning Chest.

**S.P.G** · 12-31-2005, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by Warrior

I am with ya on that - but doing Military Presses (Front Barbell Shoulder Presses) after some heavy Flat Benches, the Military Presses suffer. If I do Mil Presses on their own day I can add about 40 extra pounds to the bar.

Yes your right! some people they may suffer.

I just make sure the weight I do is more than I previously did the week before as long as you progress you will make improvements even if its small amounts each week.

I think doing laterals first is a good idea to as this is the movement that will give you roundness to the medial head improving width I feel press just hit’s the anterior head more...

Also I think I would rather suffer a little on weight than train shoulders twice a week, although I have never found this a problem.

Originally Posted by Warrior

I am currently splitting Front (mil presses) and Posterior Delts (static lateral raises) with Chest Days and Rear Delts (static rev flyes) with Back days. When I want to focus more on adding strength to the Millitary Press... I work them on their own day with more working sets... personally I have to for progress, and can get working sets up to 265lbs Mil Press on their own day... but never go above 225 after a chest workout. The aternative is working them prior to beginning Chest.

sounds good....

**Flexor** · 12-31-2005, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by FIVE_8

dude, you dont knwo what your talking about. I hit the shoulders from evry angle; front/ rear delts, traps, etc...

believe me, I always know what I am talking about. Otherwise I wouldn't write it and make a fool of myself. Three people are telling you the same thing here, S.P.G, Warrior and myself

Weight lifting is not meant to be an endurance exercise unless you are intentionally training with high reps. Why overtax the CNS and overtrain your muscles with needless sets, just because you can't train with intensity.

As for military presses, that is a great point Warrior. If someone's aim is strength for the military press, having a separate shoulder day is a great idea. Otherwise its best after chest, because like S.P.G said, its about improving your performance compared to last time. The pre-fatigue does not matter too much. If you did military presses after chest and improved over time and then switched back to a separate day for shoulders, your press would be a lot stronger than it was before even though you have been working it at in the pre-fatigued state after chest.

**GunTotingHipGangster** · 12-31-2005, 10:20 AM

Juice, another thing i see wrong other than too many sets is youre working small muscles before big muscles. Why do bi's before back? 90% of all back exercises use your bi's. if you lift bi's before you lift back youre going to be failing on your back exercises because your bi's are going to be too taxed to lift the proper weight. On my bi/back day i start with back and my bi's still fatigue before my back does.

16 sets on small muscles isn't going to make you grow. You should only need 6 sets on bi's after back.

Warrior, i agree with you. When i try to throw shoulders and tris in after i do chest, i am too fatigued to lift the weight i need to build muscle on these select body parts. I was torn because i only want to lift three days a week because i believe that is best for the CNS, but thats not possible if i have to put shoulders and tri's on a seperate day. Oh well, i'm trying a Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri for awhile to see the results

**xxxJUICExxx** · 12-31-2005, 05:27 PM

arite how about this workout right here

monday back and bis:

closegrip pulldown 12,10,10,8
widegrip pulldown 12,10,10,8
hammer strenght individual lat pulldown 12,10,10,8
reverse fly machine 12,10,10,10
sitting curls with curved bar 12,10,10,8
concentration 12,10,10,8

is that a good back and bi workout....?

**S.P.G** · 12-31-2005, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by xxxJUICExxx

arite how about this workout right here

monday back and bis:

closegrip pulldown 12,10,10,8
widegrip pulldown 12,10,10,8
hammer strenght individual lat pulldown 12,10,10,8
reverse fly machine 12,10,10,10
sitting curls with curved bar 12,10,10,8
concentration 12,10,10,8

is that a good back and bi workout....?

well what is that one day^^

**Flexor** · 12-31-2005, 05:33 PM

There are plenty of threads about back/bi routines, read them and save us some time

http://67.18.108.244/showthread.php?t=213834

http://67.18.108.244/showthread.php?t=213795

**xxxJUICExxx** · 12-31-2005, 06:04 PM

should i separate my cardio from my training.....or should i stick 2 10min intro and 10min ending....?

**chest6** · 12-31-2005, 06:25 PM

I would separate, yes. You are overtainingx100 right now. Heres an example of a back/bi routine this is what I do.

3 sets wide grip pullups
4 sets deadlifts
4 sets bent over rows
3 sets lat pulls

3 sets standing barbell curls with hands facing outward
3 sets db preachers

I decided I wasn't content with only doing 3 sets of deads and rows so I added another set to each.

**Warrior** · 01-01-2006, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by chest6

I would separate, yes. You are overtainingx100 right now. Heres an example of a back/bi routine this is what I do.

3 sets wide grip pullups
4 sets deadlifts
4 sets bent over rows
3 sets lat pulls

3 sets standing barbell curls with hands facing outward
3 sets db preachers

I decided I wasn't content with only doing 3 sets of deads and rows so I added another set to each.

Right now, mine is even more abbreviated than that... I do about 8-10 sets of Barbell Rows (typically a flat pyramid of anywhere between 8-12 reps) and 3 sets of Close Grip Lat Pull downs (again, same weigth and same reps - usually about 12-18). I cut it this short when doing a lot of cardio (45-60min per gym day) and calculating power indexes for the workout... and I do progress with it... and equally importantly, I look forward to every workout...

When I am doing less cardio and more weights - a routine like chest6 looks solid... good angles and movements...

You can workout long, or you can work out hard - you can't do both...