Legs - Aux Day Help

**Kurz** · 01-15-2006, 10:14 AM

SUndays are usually my days to hit the gym and try to pick up my lagging bodypart (legs) and just get an overall good sweat in before I eat ALL DAY!! lol

My split looks like:

CHEST/TRIS
OFF
DELT/CALVES
BACK/TRPS/BIS
OFF
LEG/AUXILLARY DAY......

Any good ideas for legs that are lagging...I'm thinking it's from my bad lower back, preventing me from going very heavy on squats. I typically do

SQUAT - 5X5
DEADS - 10,8,8,6,6
LEG EXTENTION X 3
HAMMY CURLS X 3
LEG PRESS X2
CALVES X 3-4

MAYBE SOME FOREARMS, BIS, DELT MACHINES.........

**catabolic kid** · 01-15-2006, 11:20 AM

It is hard to answer really, but maybe you should take out the deadlifts if your back is giving you trouble and replace them with glute ham raise or hyperextensions. Both of those exercises take stress out of your lower back and at the same time work your hamstrings really well...whcih is good because you have a ham exercise that work the hams from the knee joint but not from the hip joint.

Also, for quads, if you cannot go really heavy on squats you could just add some techniques that extend a set past failure. For a quad exercise, I like to do one legged squats with dumbells.

**Kurz** · 01-15-2006, 11:24 AM

so what would your leg day look like?

**catabolic kid** · 01-15-2006, 11:27 AM

"So what would your leg day look like?"- Kurz

I do alot of "squat lifts" (trap bar), one legged squats, stiff leg deads and hyper extensions.

***Narkissos*** · 01-15-2006, 11:32 AM

Sometimes lowerback and leg deficiencies are due to muscular imbalances.. namely those of the hamstring complex.

You may want to try training hamstrings first in your leg workout... drop the deadlifts in favour of Stiff-leg deads

Drop the barbell squats in favour of front squats... drop the leg presses.. and add hack squats.

Your routine would now look like

Leg curls: 5 sets
Stiff-leg deadlifts: 3-5 sets
Front Squats: 5 sets (+ 2 warm-up sets)
Hack squats: 3-5 sets
Calves: 5 sets

I find leg curls (due to the fact that they involve knee-bending) do a pretty good job of warming up the knee complex... In addition i find the best 'warm-up' per se... is a couple light sets of the main exercise... not a single joint exercise like commonly advised.. i.e. i think a couple light sets of squats for example works better than a couple sets of leg-extensions for warming up the legs (i.e. knees, hips etc.)

**catabolic kid** · 01-15-2006, 11:33 AM

Also, I am going for functional strength, not really bodybuilding.

You can come up with a lot of little intense leg routine that keep your lower back from being stressed. I mentioned the one leg squats...can be done on simth or with dumbells. You could do a superset of Heavy Hack squats and bodyweight squats. The main thing is to just keep changing everything...especially your reps. Alternate high reps and low reps from week to week. Keep playing with your routine and you will find what works.

**Kurz** · 01-15-2006, 11:35 AM

Leg-press:

Set 1:x12 res
Set 2: x10 reps
Set 3: x10 reps

Squats:
warm-up: 45 lb bar: 10 reps
Set 1: 8 reps
Set 2-6: 5 reps of 5 below parallel

Leg Extent. 3 sets
Leg curls - 3 sets
calves x 3-4 sets

Stiff-leg Deadlifts:

4 sets of 10,8,8,6

sound good?

**Flexor** · 01-15-2006, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Narkissos

Sometimes lowerback and leg deficiencies are due to muscular imbalances.. namely those of the hamstring complex.

You may want to try training hamstrings first in your leg workout... drop the deadlifts in favour of Stiff-leg deads

Drop the barbell squats in favour of front squats... drop the leg presses.. and add hack squats.

I'm agreed with that. Lots of people unknowingly neglect the hip extensors, those being the biarticulate long hamstring muscles, the glutes and erector spinae. The erector spinae are trained hard by deadlifts so this isn't a problem. There can be a problem if the glutes and hamstrings are far stronger than the quadriceps, so there is a delicate balance between hip extensors and knee extensors.

It has been said that the ideal strength ratios of quads: hams is as follows. I have no data on quads:glutes & hams, that would be more useful since the glutes are heavily involved in hip extending activities.

- 1:1 for explosive contractions
- 3:2 for static contractions
- 2:1 for normal contractions

Therefore you may need to concentrate on some hamstring exercises, to train the antagonist as well as the agonist (quadriceps).

**catabolic kid** · 01-15-2006, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Kurz

Leg-press:

Set 1:x12 res
Set 2: x10 reps
Set 3: x10 reps

Squats:
warm-up: 45 lb bar: 10 reps
Set 1: 8 reps
Set 2-6: 5 reps of 5 below parallel

Leg Extent. 3 sets
Leg curls - 3 sets
calves x 3-4 sets

Stiff-leg Deadlifts:

4 sets of 10,8,8,6

sound good?

Well, I dont think so. If you do the leg presses first in your workout and then move to squats this could make your back problems worse.

If you pre ex you lower body with leg press and then go to squats your form will suffer...bad form will put your body in weak postitions.

***Narkissos*** · 01-15-2006, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Kurz

so what would your leg day look like?

I know this wasn't directed at me.. but i'll respond anyway.

My leg routine varies depending on the 'phase' im in.

What is common to each of my leg days is... free squats.

When i'm into volume training my leg day looks like this

Leg routine 1:

general warm-up: either 3 light sets of leg-presses... or another light compound movement: e.g. wide stance squats.. below parallel to warm the hip complex.

Barbell squats: 10 sets x 10-20 reps
Leg-curls: 5 sets x 10-20 reps
Calves: 10 sets x 10-30 reps

When i'm training legs twice per week my routine is like this:

general warm-up: either 3 light sets of leg-presses... or another light compound movement: e.g. wide stance squats.. below parallel to warm the hip complex.

Leg routine 2:

Leg day 1:

Squats: 5 sets
Leg-curls: 5 sets
Seated calves: 5 sets

Leg day 2:

Front/hack squats: 5 sets
Leg-curls: 5 sets
Standing calves: 5 sets

Currently im training legs once per week.. My routine looks like this:

Leg-routine 3:

general warm-up: 5 sets of 5 reps bodyweight squats

Leg presses: 5-6 sets
Front/Barbell Squats: 5 sets
Stiff-leg Deadlifts: 5 sets
Seated/Standing Leg-curls: 5 sets
Calf raises on Leg-press station: 5-10 sets

When i hurt my knee during contest prep.. my leg routine was pretty similar to the last one posted... I started with leg-presses as it warmed my knee and hip adequately... and somewhat pre-exhausted my quads... allowing me to use less weight on squats... without making my session less effective.

Hope this assists in some way

~Narkissos

**Kurz** · 01-15-2006, 11:44 AM

hmmm..good advice....so swap the 2 and it looks good? enough volume?

**Kurz** · 01-15-2006, 11:46 AM

Leg presses: 5-6 sets
Front/Barbell Squats: 5 sets
Stiff-leg Deadlifts: 5 sets
Seated/Standing Leg-curls: 5 sets
Calf raises on Leg-press station: 5-10 sets

ill give this a go.....rep range?

***Narkissos*** · 01-15-2006, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by catabolic kid

Well, I dont think so. If you do the leg presses first in your workout and then move to squats this could make your back problems worse.

How so?

Originally Posted by catabolic kid

If you pre ex you lower body with leg press and then go to squats your form will suffer...bad form will put your body in weak postitions.

I think you've got it wrong.

If you pre-exhaust your core your form can suffer... The same does not apply to pre-exhauting the lower body. Form failures are namely due to poor core/hip allignments...

~Narkissos

**catabolic kid** · 01-15-2006, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Kurz

hmmm..good advice....so swap the 2 and it looks good? enough volume?

Yes, that would be a good workout, but you should always change everything about your routine. Change your reps, exercises, volume and intensity...espesially for bbing.

See how Nark had like 3 different routines...that is the key. Try out the one leg squat on smith or with dumbells...they work really well as a secondary exercise.

**Flexor** · 01-15-2006, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Narkissos

How so?

I think you've got it wrong.

If you pre-exhaust your core your form can suffer... The same does not apply to pre-exhauting the lower body. Form failures are namely due to poor core/hip allignments...

~Narkissos

Yes, this issue would only apply in a situation such as this, say if you pre-exhausted the erector spinae with reverse hyperextensions and then attempted deadlifts. Form would suffer.

Pre-exhuasing the quads will not lead to poor form on the squat though, the stabilising core muscles will be unaffected.

**catabolic kid** · 01-15-2006, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Narkissos

How so?

I think you've got it wrong.

If you pre-exhaust your core your form can suffer... The same does not apply to pre-exhauting the lower body. Form failures are namely due to poor core/hip allignments...

~Narkissos

This opinion is based on the fact that this person ALREADY has back problems. I understand what you are saying though. Really, I did not post this earllier but I thought that him doing leg press would either hurt him or help him. I am thinking that if his legs are pre ex than his form may suffer even thouhg he is using less weight...this would hrt him. If his form did not suffer (like you assume) then it would help him.

***Narkissos*** · 01-15-2006, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Kurz

Leg presses: 5-6 sets
Front/Barbell Squats: 5 sets
Stiff-leg Deadlifts: 5 sets
Seated/Standing Leg-curls: 5 sets
Calf raises on Leg-press station: 5-10 sets

ill give this a go.....rep range?

Leg-presses: 10-15
Squats: 10-20
Leg-curls: 10 -20
Calves: 10-30 (mix it up)

***Narkissos*** · 01-15-2006, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by catabolic kid

This opinion is based on the fact that this person ALREADY has back problems. I understand what you are saying though. Really, I did not post this earllier but I thought that him doing leg press would either hurt him or help him. I am thinking that if his legs are pre ex than his form may suffer even thouhg he is using less weight...this would hrt him. If his form did not suffer (like you assume) then it would help him.

This is an open discussion.. and i like to hear varying opinions (i don't agree however

... but i see where you're coming from)

~Nark

**catabolic kid** · 01-15-2006, 12:02 PM

Let me put it this way: if a person with a bad back is going to do squats, I think he should be fresh (mentally and physically) before doing them.

Also, if his legs are pre ex, he could possibly use bad form by leaning forward with the weight, overcompensating for his "exhausted legs."

Again, I know exactly what you are saying about the core not being affected and all that. It depends on how he handles it.

**Flexor** · 01-15-2006, 12:05 PM

That's a good point catabolic kid, I suppose it can work either way. Exhausted muscles might lead one to try to change form to make it easier on the muscles, and it could lead to problems.

**catabolic kid** · 01-15-2006, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Flexor

That's a good point catabolic kid, I suppose it can work either way. Exhausted muscles might lead one to try to change form to make it easier on the muscles, and it could lead to problems.

Yes, it can work either way. It can be a good thing or a bad thing...it just depends on how the individual handles it.

***Narkissos*** · 01-15-2006, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by catabolic kid

Let me put it this way: if a person with a bad back is going to do squats, I think he should be fresh (mentally and physically) before doing them.

Also, if his legs are pre ex, he could possibly use bad form by leaning forward with the weight, overcompensating for his "exhausted legs."

Again, I know exactly what you are saying about the core not being affected and all that. It depends on how he handles it.

I get your point...