The overtaining controversy: Do you buy it?

**Mike Dura** · 01-18-2006, 05:56 PM

Big Arnold himself was critical of it's existence. I train with high volume and I seem to recuperate workout to workout. For lagging bodyparts, I train twice a week with 20 or more sets (even for smaller body parts). Someome argued that soreness is not a true indicater of overtraining. I don't know. What do you guys think?

**catabolic kid** · 01-18-2006, 06:08 PM

I dont know, that is a very good question. Almost every bodybuilder trains differently (Ronnie vs Dorain). So, as much as I hate this line, " I guess you have to see what works best for you."

I would say, overall, I think that high volume, moderate intsensity is the most proven system for hypertrophy. How intense do you train...it must not be to intense of you train so often?

As far as soreness, I dont think it means you are overtraining, but I do think that you should not train a sore muscle...no evidence, it just seems to make sense to me not to train a muscle if it is sore.

**Mike Dura** · 01-18-2006, 06:36 PM

I do plenty of heavy sets - as low as three reps.

Originally Posted by catabolic kid

I dont know, that is a very good question. Almost every bodybuilder trains differently (Ronnie vs Dorain). So, as much as I hate this line, " I guess you have to see what works best for you."

I would say, overall, I think that high volume, moderate intsensity is the most proven system for hypertrophy. How intense do you train...it must not be to intense of you train so often?

As far as soreness, I dont think it means you are overtraining, but I do think that you should not train a sore muscle...no evidence, it just seems to make sense to me not to train a muscle if it is sore.

**chest6** · 01-18-2006, 07:26 PM

Overtraining is a very real event for me at least..

**GunTotingHipGangster** · 01-18-2006, 08:05 PM

i over trained my bi's for a year, constantly adding more sets/reps...in that year i definatly didnt see much growth at all in my bi's. Once i dropped the sets not only did my bi's pick up, my back definatly got more ripped as well

**Anthony C** · 01-18-2006, 09:14 PM

I have to say that I have tried everything

and I always found my body has done better with higher reps 8-12 upper body 12-15 lower with moderate intensity /heavy (not going to total failure but just short of it ).I think the bigest part of all as far as reaching your goals has more to do with diet than anything ...Anthony

**24labor** · 01-18-2006, 10:36 PM

I have to say yes but I feel that overtraining is blammed to quickly by people whos diets are not in check. You can change it up from low to high reps to german volume to HIT but if you dont eat you wont grow. If I find myself hitting the wall I check the diet if my kcals are at a balance I'll bump them up if they are already bumped and still no growth well then yes I would say overtrainng has occured. Now for example my chest workout I'll do for the most part 12 sets with pushups added at the end just 20 of them(just a personal thing) and I'm pretty fried especially when I use heavy ass weights I dunno if I could pull another set out and if I did I beleive that I would overtrain maybe not the muscles at first but perhaps the CNS. That is just me others genetics can help them do arnold workouts and other guys like yates did all that in a third of the time he did.

**Juicy Sauce** · 01-18-2006, 10:45 PM

24labor is right. overtraining usually happens when someone is not eating enough carbs.

**tranzit** · 01-18-2006, 11:48 PM

It is very possible to over train if you do not know what you are doing. But i think alot of people read way to much and call anything over four days a week over training. I train six days a week somtimes ill go straight through. i take days off as my body tells me i need to. Working a diffrent muscle group a day six days a week has always worked well for me when i bulk. Cutting i drop weight training down to 4 days and hit cardio 6-7 days a week.

**Mike Dura** · 01-19-2006, 02:51 PM

I've read that as well. Nevertheless, I eat relatively little carbs (e.g., 100 - 250 gms daily) and I don't feel like I'm overtraining. The tape measure is widening over the last few months and I don't feel run down. I do, however, change it up (periordize) quite a bit which I read staves off overtraining.

Originally Posted by Juicy Sauce

24labor is right. overtraining usually happens when someone is not eating enough carbs.

**24labor** · 01-19-2006, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Mike Dura

I've read that as well. Nevertheless, I eat relatively little carbs (e.g., 100 - 250 gms daily) and I don't feel like I'm overtraining. The tape measure is widening over the last few months and I don't feel run down. I do, however, change it up (periordize) quite a bit which I read staves off overtraining.

I switch my routine up every 4 or 5 weeks that really helps me from over doing it as well as a week off every 8-10 weeks

**Herbster** · 01-29-2006, 12:33 PM

Taken in the correct context if you was Overtrained you would probably be in a hospital or on medication.
Most people have a couple of weeks of from the gym, come back fresher and stronger and say that they was overtrained, this is not true. I guess a better term would be that they are overreaching.
Its all relative, cycle intensity and volume and listen to your body.

**novastepp** · 01-29-2006, 12:44 PM

If i hit it too many times a week my gains arent as much as when i hit it once or, sometimes, twice... and that is the weights not my girl...

thats some good cardio for yaass...

**WHOADY4SHOADY** · 01-31-2006, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Mike Dura

Big Arnold himself was critical of it's existence. I train with high volume and I seem to recuperate workout to workout. For lagging bodyparts, I train twice a week with 20 or more sets (even for smaller body parts). Someome argued that soreness is not a true indicater of overtraining. I don't know. What do you guys think?

But Mike are you going to absolute muscular failure on all of those sets?

**Pinnacle** · 01-31-2006, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Mike Dura

Big Arnold himself was critical of it's existence. I train with high volume and I seem to recuperate workout to workout. For lagging bodyparts, I train twice a week with 20 or more sets (even for smaller body parts). Someome argued that soreness is not a true indicater of overtraining. I don't know. What do you guys think?

Have you ever had any of the symptoms?

Loss of appetite?

Trouble sleeping(restlessness)?

Drop in strength?

I have...over training is a reality.You can use it to your advantage,and spurt new muscle growth if you know what you are doing.You've probably done it back accident already when you've trained in this fashion,then switched to a lower volume type routine.

~Pinnacle~

**IronReload04** · 01-31-2006, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Mike Dura

Big Arnold himself was critical of it's existence. I train with high volume and I seem to recuperate workout to workout. For lagging bodyparts, I train twice a week with 20 or more sets (even for smaller body parts). Someome argued that soreness is not a true indicater of overtraining. I don't know. What do you guys think?

how much pounds of muscle do you gain a year and at what rate to you increase strength?

**SwoleCat** · 01-31-2006, 05:27 PM

The bigger you get, the more time you need for recovery as there is constantly MORE to repair.

Such has been the case in my experience anyhow. Seems like the less I do, the better I get.

~SC~

**catabolic kid** · 01-31-2006, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

The bigger you get, the more time you need for recovery as there is constantly MORE to repair.

Such has been the case in my experience anyhow. Seems like the less I do, the better I get.

~SC~

Yes, when you are bigger there is more muscle to repair. Also, the stronger you get the more likely you are to overtrain, because of the added stress on the CNS.

**Canadiantiger** · 01-31-2006, 10:06 PM

For me Over Training is real. I started off training all the time 6-7 days a week at the end of 2 months I was weaker and could not sleep. I now train no more than 4 days a week and never more than 2 days in a row.

**catabolic kid** · 01-31-2006, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Canadiantiger

For me Over Training is real. I started off training all the time 6-7 days a week at the end of 2 months I was weaker and could not sleep. I now train no more than 4 days a week and never more than 2 days in a row.

In my opinion, that is the best split to follow. Very small chance of overtraining. I go with Mon, Tues, Thur, Fri.

**juicy_brucy** · 01-31-2006, 11:23 PM

Once I started overtraining, I began to loose my ectomorphic body frame.
Overtraining to me, is 2 hours in the gym instead of 30 minutes, all in one trip to the gym, (not multipule visits throughout the day).
I still need that 24 hours recovery time and that extra day off every week. lets not forget protien and sleep...

**joeben22** · 02-01-2006, 02:39 AM

PM for ya GunTotingHipG

**notanormalgent** · 02-05-2006, 04:11 AM

I never train more than three days in a row. I feel that the overtraining effects my CNS more than anything. I'll just go into the gym and my strength and energy are down by around 30%. That's when I know it's time to go home.