Thread: Training "Sloppy"
12-30-2002, 04:36 PM #1
I have a nagging question that's been bothering me for some time now. The notion of perfect (or at least, disciplined and structured) form is drilled into our heads fairly early in our lifting development. However, at literally every gym i've trained at, the few biggest guys, virtually without fail or exception, train in what could almost be considered a "sloppy" manner, speaking in terms of rep execution. Now, I don't mean to suggest that they bounce the bars off their chest, perform barbell curls that resemble some derivative of good mornings, or do side lateral raises that give them the aura of a drunken seagull trying to take flight, but there is unquestionably a good chunk of "body english" inherent in many of their working sets. What finally prompted me to ask this question was my viewing today of "Ronnnie Coleman - the Unbelievable" (well, the first ten minutes anyhow...more when i get home from work) in which his side lateral raises definitely do not look like the version you'd find in an exercise physiology book.
So, how about it AR - is a certain level of controlled chaos necessary to take your physique to the next level and really pound those muscles? Or, am i confusing an effect for a cause; ie, are these ripped and large guys so genetically gifted that they'd grow simply from talking about curls? Looking forward to some responses.
12-30-2002, 06:06 PM #2Senior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- long island new york
Now I may catch some slack for this but here it goes. I'm not big on isolation exercises, I do think there is a place for them in some peoples training (ie..Bodybuilders the guys who are entering shows or guys who have enough size to go a head and shape.) I do not believe guys trying to put on mass should waste their time with isolation movements.
That being said, I think it's ok to cheat on exercises and bring in other bodyparts to help out with the movement. I'm not advocating bad form or form that can potentially cause injury but, I do think it's ok to "cheat" in a positive way. Why work one muscle when you could work two or three.
Now you being a BB at heart but using a PL program for a while you may understand where I'm comming from. One of my personal favorite exersices to do and some would call it cheating are power shugs I don't do these much anymore but they're a great exercise. A power shrug is a barbell shrug where you use some bi's to help pull more weight.
JMO Stay Strong,
12-30-2002, 06:29 PM #3New Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2002
- some place very hot
look at your body. it is designed to work synergistically with other mucsles in order to increse leverage and momentum. you can train w/loose form and get awesome results. do you see how ronnie colman trians or jay cutler, they train with ''loose form'' . the point is if your just looking to put the most mass on in the littlest time loose form is great. there is a point although were is gets hazardous. i.e. use tyoo much weight w/ loose form
12-31-2002, 11:21 PM #4
I agrre with MRbig .I think a little body english is ok .At the same time i have read an article where they were talking about form and they say Coleman's got to be the worst > they also stated that if most of us would try training with his form and heavy weights we would surelty get injured.
He is a freak and that why he can get away with a loose form.
then again i didn tsee the video tapes of most pro's so i dont know for sure.
Does he train to failure on that tape at all ?(spotter)
01-01-2003, 12:28 AM #5
IMO there is a time for ISO and a time to cheat. I sometimes do cheater curls for instance in order to boost the weight. However when I do exercising in general I do strict movements. Poor technique can cause injury and that is a fact.
01-01-2003, 01:10 AM #6
I try to never cheat. It's just a way of fooling yourself. For instance when doing bench presses. Now i might bump the bar off my chest, but only after im exausted and don't think i can get it with strength alone, then i will not hesitate to rely on momentum to aid me along with a couple more reps.
01-02-2003, 10:48 AM #7
I'll have to agree with saying there's a time to be strict and a time to cheat. On my main heavy lifts I might cheat when really putting on the weight but with my secondary lifts it's got to be strict.
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