Do you increase or decrease weight after each set?

**gbrice75** · 07-21-2010, 07:09 PM

About 95% of the people I see in gyms use the 'pyramid' system where they're adding weight to each set of the same exercise. They'll start with X number of reps and the number of reps will decline on each set as the weight increases.

Honestly I think most people do this because they don't know any other way, and look to see what others are doing and just follow suit.

The science behind that system, as I understand it and as it was explained to me, is to exhaust the slow twitch fibers early so that the body will recruit fast twitch fibers on subsequent sets. I don't necessarily think this is right or wrong, just a very popular method.

I personally always start with my heaviest working set (not talking about warm-ups here) and drop weight on each subsequent set. The logic is that I want maximum energy and intensity going into my heaviest set which should already be recruiting fast twitch fibers based on weight, speed of reps and intensity. Also, with reducing weight on each set, I can stay within a target rep range (let's say i'm trying to hit failure within 4-6 reps for instance). With the pyramid system, if you started with for example 10 reps and increased weight on subsequent sets, you're obviously going to do fewer and fewer reps. By the time you get to your (last) heaviest set (arguably the most important working set), you're most likely already fatigued and cannot put maximum intensity and effort into the set. To me it seems like short changing yourself.

IMO reducing weight after each set just makes more sense. I'd like to hear what you all do, and why? Give me the science behind it.

**Times Roman** · 07-21-2010, 07:13 PM

on the one hand, the reverse pyramid system has merits. But for me, the problem is your max weight lags one week. You can think you have a max weight at 4 reps, then surprise yourself and do 6, but then too late to add more weight.

for me, pretty good is close enough. My cardio/diet/routine is pretty good, and I have pretty good results. And at 48, that aint too shabby!

**gbrice75** · 07-21-2010, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

on the one hand, the reverse pyramid system has merits. But for me, the problem is your max weight lags one week. You can think you have a max weight at 4 reps, then surprise yourself and do 6, but then too late to add more weight.

for me, pretty good is close enough. My cardio/diet/routine is pretty good, and I have pretty good results. And at 48, that aint too shabby!

I hear you about being off on the max rep weight, but I find this happens more so when starting out. Even if you do more reps then you were planning to fail within, at least you know to increase on the following workout.

**Times Roman** · 07-21-2010, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

I hear you about being off on the max rep weight, but I find this happens more so when starting out. Even if you do more reps then you were planning to fail within, at least you know to increase on the following workout.

OK, so let me ask you a question, since you brought it up. I understand you are a proponent of the reverse pyramid scheme, but are the benefits noticeable enough to switch?

Let me explain.

First of all, since I was laid off from work, I have PLENTY of time to work out, and here lately, the number of sets has really went up.

to continue...
I pretty much know how much weight I need to be able to do say, 15 reps.
(I write down all my results btw..)
so say i'm doing butterflies on the machine. then I'll add ten pounds and rep out til failure.
I'll continue doing this til i'm down to about a set of one or two reps. this could be 7 or 8 sets and I pretty much know when I am done with that routine.

but with a reverse pyramid scheme, you end up with instead of 1 or 2 reps, you end up with as many reps as you can handle, since you are working with ever decreasing weights.

but I guess you can get some crazy pumps with a reverse pyramid, huh?

**gbrice75** · 07-21-2010, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

but with a reverse pyramid scheme, you end up with instead of 1 or 2 reps, you end up with as many reps as you can handle, since you are working with ever decreasing weights.

Not really - the point would be to reduce only enough weight (of course it's always an estimate) to still hit failure within your target rep range. So if you were trying to fail within 4-6 reps, failed on 5 reps in the first set, but then reduced weight and did 9 reps, you've obviously reduced too much. Again, the correction would have to be saved for the next workout.

**Times Roman** · 07-22-2010, 09:55 AM

I may give 'er a try on a few of my routines just to see. Thanks mate!

**gbrice75** · 07-22-2010, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I may give 'er a try on a few of my routines just to see. Thanks mate!

No problem. If you wind up giving it a shot, be sure to let me know how you make out and whether or not you liked it!

**Times Roman** · 07-22-2010, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

No problem. If you wind up giving it a shot, be sure to let me know how you make out and whether or not you liked it!

I will. I chart all my results in MS Excel, so it should be pretty easy to see after a few weeks if any benefit.

**tballz** · 07-22-2010, 12:02 PM

I switch it up. Sometimes I pyramid up and other times down.

**gbrice75** · 07-22-2010, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by tballz

I switch it up. Sometimes I pyramid up and other times down.

Probably not a bad idea. One good way to keep the body guessing. I do it sometimes as well, although more out of boredom rather then systematically.

**Times Roman** · 07-22-2010, 06:01 PM

One last thought for me on this thread. Since i am older than most here... and sometimes injury prone, if I "blow a gasket", i'd rather it be on a lighter weight as i am working my way up, than on a heavier weight and working my way down. Curls is an example of something I will continue going up in weight, but squats I'm ok with, so I can try that with max weight first then work my way down.

You know, I've almost abandoned curling.... danm stinger in my left forearm is eight weeks old and still hanging in there stubborn as all get out!

**gbrice75** · 07-22-2010, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

One last thought for me on this thread. Since i am older than most here... and sometimes injury prone, if I "blow a gasket", i'd rather it be on a lighter weight as i am working my way up, than on a heavier weight and working my way down. Curls is an example of something I will continue going up in weight, but squats I'm ok with, so I can try that with max weight first then work my way down.

You know, I've almost abandoned curling.... danm stinger in my left forearm is eight weeks old and still hanging in there stubborn as all get out!

Ouch, sorry man! I'm thinking of giving up curls myself, and just going with chip ups - trying to get as much as possible down to big compound movements.

**Bulkn** · 07-23-2010, 10:08 PM

No one has really answered the question yet.. With pyramids how hard are you suposed to go on the first few sets leading up to the heaviest one? To failure? Or stop when you think you can't do another full rep in good form?
I'm a big fan of reverse pyramids but I find after about 2 months or so it becomes ineffective and have to change up then go back to it at a later stage. As long as I do 2-3 small warm ups for that muscle group I won't get injured.

**gbrice75** · 07-24-2010, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by bulkn

no one has really answered the question yet.. With pyramids how hard are you suposed to go on the first few sets leading up to the heaviest one? To failure? Or stop when you think you can't do another full rep in good form?
I'm a big fan of reverse pyramids but i find after about 2 months or so it becomes ineffective and have to change up then go back to it at a later stage. As long as i do 2-3 small warm ups for that muscle group i won't get injured.

^^^ x2

**only-juice** · 07-24-2010, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Bulkn

No one has really answered the question yet.. With pyramids how hard are you suposed to go on the first few sets leading up to the heaviest one? To failure? Or stop when you think you can't do another full rep in good form?
I'm a big fan of reverse pyramids but I find after about 2 months or so it becomes ineffective and have to change up then go back to it at a later stage. As long as I do 2-3 small warm ups for that muscle group I won't get injured.

On pyramid training the goal is to increase your strength
There are two ways that I go about it.

if you are going to do 12-6 reps for 4 then you go like this
12-60%
10-70%
8-80%
6-85%

If you are going to go 10-1 for 4 then you go like this
10-70%
6-85%
2-95%
1-100%

The goal here is to keep increasing the total weight each week or every two weeks.

To my understanding, More strength equals more Muscle Mass.

**The Titan99** · 08-05-2010, 01:28 AM

I've been using the Slingshot Training System (Ronnie Rowland) for about 3 months with excellent results. He advocates the reverse pyramid system (unless you are highly advanced and using silly big weights) and it's working great for me as well as many others here, but you're right, weight selection is sometimes a bit of a problem... I DO surprise myself sometimes!! I guess that's a good thing though.

**oldschoolfitness** · 08-06-2010, 07:57 AM

this is a good little thread. i have always used the pyramid, but i can see the advantages of both and i am going to use the reverse as a way of changing things up. thanks for all the post.

**gbrice75** · 08-06-2010, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by oldschoolfitness

this is a good little thread. I have always used the pyramid, but i can see the advantages of both and i am going to use the reverse as a way of changing things up. Thanks for all the post.

^^^ =)

**Cousinbutch** · 08-06-2010, 02:05 PM

The solution is simple - HIT.

**Brailsagreerb** · 02-17-2011, 08:20 PM

hi, new to the site, thanks.

**PurpleOnes** · 02-21-2011, 01:45 PM

I find it best to pyramid my workout for some time and then use drop sets.

**djmikecollins** · 03-10-2011, 03:22 PM

I have been doing the reverse pyramid latley, with great result. I also include a drop set system to it by decreaseing the weight so i can finish out with more reps. For instance on sets that are 80% of my max, i will just do 10 of them. I may need to rack the weight during sets for a couple seconds or if i cant possiblly do more, i will drop the weight a bit. Maybe that 10 set at 80% ends at 40% but hopefully next time it will end at 60% and thus overall strenght will have increased.