Rotator cuff tear just 2 weeks into cycle

**Kenny357** · 04-16-2017, 01:07 PM

Hi guys, I've been around the forum for awhile. Haven't posted much lately due to long hour days and basically just being worn out but in a good way. I began a cycle of test c and decay at the first of the month. My overall goal is to bench 405lbs for 4 reps by May 8 2018. I'm not 100% sure where I'm at because of lack of a spot. However I do know I can hit 340 on the hammer press for 4 now. Anyways, 2 weeks before I started my cycle, I dropped a weight doing shoulder presses and it hurt my shoulder. I took a weeek off and it felt much better so I decided to go ahead with said cycle. Shoulder went to crap fast when I put weight on it. I believe it's my rotator cuff. My question is, how many days can I train legs and still get good benefits without overtraining? I plan to stay on cycle and put my main focus on legs and secondary on core. Would like to hear any suggestions. Thanks.

**songdog** · 04-16-2017, 02:26 PM

Train them no more than you would normally.I am going through the same thing but my Doc don't think it's a RC so I am just laying off all pressing movements.

**Nogbad the bad** · 04-16-2017, 02:49 PM

I've suffered shoulder pain for years,and because i've found doctors to be a waste of time,regarding this issue,i've self diagnosed,after reading everything
i can regarding impingement.
The biggest problem,is finding the best regime to try curing it.There are dozens of so called experts,on the net/you tube,and most of them differ in their
views,when it comes to the exercises.Then others say bpc 157 sorts it,my quack says the usual shit,rest and ice.It did actually stop hurting me last year,
when i was hardly training,but after around five or six weeks training this year,it's back.
just wish i knew a way to sort it out,without it taking so much time trying so many different things.

**Kenny357** · 04-16-2017, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by songdog

Train them no more than you would normally.I am going through the same thing but my Doc don't think it's a RC so I am just laying off all pressing movements.

I generally only train legs once a week and sometimes I skip leg day. My plan was to hit them hard after I hit my BP goal but I'm thinking that with the shoulder issue, I'll go ahead and do that now. I've seen several routines that include 2-3 leg days. I feel like I could physically do 2 heavy days/week and focus on core and cardio on my other days. However, with you speaking of just laying off presses I'm curious if I can keep my back day? Will rows or pull downs be detrimental to my cuff? What other excercises would you recommend being safe?

**numbere** · 04-16-2017, 11:05 PM

Can you reach with your injured arm into the opposite rear pants pocket with the palm facing away from your body?

Like take your wallet out of the pocket on the opposite side ,with palm facing away, and not yell so loud you raise the dead?

**songdog** · 04-17-2017, 03:45 AM

I have been toll by different Doctors the thing about a RC tear is it gets poor blood flow or circulation is why its so hard for it too heel.That's why it's operated on and it's a long road coming back that can't be rushed.

**almostgone** · 04-17-2017, 04:39 AM

One thing to help with circulation is to prop the arm on a pillow while sleeping. Put part of the pillow in between the chest and arm on the injured side. It will allow.for better circulation, although you may have to learn to sleep on your back of you're accustomed to sleeping on your side.
Also, try not to "cradle" the arm/keep the shoulder tucked in tight when on your feet. If nothing else hook your thumh in your pants pocket and let it support some of the load.
Stay away from dumbbells for a good while and when you do start back, stay with the Smith machine for awhile, IMHO.

**almostgone** · 04-17-2017, 04:42 AM

Also,.you may want to do a little reading in the injuries/rehab forum. You may find something to help you there.

INJURIES & REHAB

**Kenny357** · 04-17-2017, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by numbere

Can you reach with your injured arm into the opposite rear pants pocket with the palm facing away from your body?

Like take your wallet out of the pocket on the opposite side ,with palm facing away, and not yell so loud you raise the dead?

I tried and can not. I can get about as far as my crack without too much pain. Any further HURTS!

**almostgone** · 04-17-2017, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Kenny357

I generally only train legs once a week and sometimes I skip leg day. My plan was to hit them hard after I hit my BP goal but I'm thinking that with the shoulder issue, I'll go ahead and do that now. I've seen several routines that include 2-3 leg days. I feel like I could physically do 2 heavy days/week and focus on core and cardio on my other days. However, with you speaking of just laying off presses I'm curious if I can keep my back day? Will rows or pull downs be detrimental to my cuff? What other excercises would you recommend being safe?

You could try splitting your legs up into 2 days as well for 4 weeks or so and then evaluate how your legs feel and how.you are healing in the shoulder department? Just a thought.

**numbere** · 04-17-2017, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Kenny357

I tried and can not. I can get about as far as my crack without too much pain. Any further HURTS!

That's not good.

If you can do that movement but it only hurts then you RC is either inflamed and not torn or it's not you RC.

On a 1 to 10 pain scale it will be a 9.5 and you won't be able to do that full movement for a torn RC.

**Kenny357** · 04-17-2017, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by numbere

That's not good.

If you can do that movement but it only hurts then you RC is either inflamed and not torn or it's not you RC.

On a 1 to 10 pain scale it will be a 9.5 and you won't be able to do that full movement for a torn RC.

This is good news. I'm a bit of a wimp when it comes to pain. I somewhat enjoy the self inflicted kind we do to ourselves at the gym but injuries suck! It hurts like about a 7-8 doing the full movement but I can do it. Hoping it's just inflamed. Going to do some cryotherapy and see if it helps.

**numbere** · 04-17-2017, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Kenny357

This is good news. I'm a bit of a wimp when it comes to pain. I somewhat enjoy the self inflicted kind we do to ourselves at the gym but injuries suck! It hurts like about a 7-8 doing the full movement but I can do it. Hoping it's just inflamed. Going to do some cryotherapy and see if it helps.

Do you sleep on the injured side or drive with one arm (i.e. the injured side)?

**MuscleScience** · 04-17-2017, 12:56 PM

Here's the thing about the shoulders, the rotator cuff will tear and is usually not a problem with antique rest and avoidance of re injury. Because the shoulder is such a mobile joint, it is actually designed to some extent to absorb a small tear.

The best thing to do is avoid ALL movements that irritate it and work around it.

**numbere** · 04-17-2017, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

Here's the thing about the shoulders, the rotator cuff will tear and is usually not a problem with antique rest and avoidance of re injury. Because the shoulder is such a mobile joint, it is actually designed to some extent to absorb a small tear.

The best thing to do is avoid ALL movements that irritate it and work around it.

I agree 100% but I think OP may have a RC impingement.

If the top muscle\tendon is compressed then he's going to need some DIY physical therapy to open the subacromial space.

**MuscleScience** · 04-17-2017, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by numbere

I agree 100% but I think OP may have a RC impingement.

If the top muscle\tendon is compressed then he's going to need some DIY physical therapy to open the subacromial space.

I agree If it is that, only Ice and NSAIDs will help that. Acromial Impinment is a product of hypertrophy and inflammation. Maybe strict rhomboid and teres minor work if the humeral head is anterior because of a tight anterior capsule and weak antagonistics.

**numbere** · 04-17-2017, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

I agree If it is that, only Ice and NSAIDs will help that. Acromial Impinment is a product of hypertrophy and inflammation. Maybe strict rhomboid and teres minor work if the humeral head is anterior because of a tight anterior capsule and weak antagonistics.

I went on a few dates with a physical therapist and she said RC impingement is a common injury for BBers and PLers who commonly drive with one arm or sleep on their side.

Also that the chance impingement increases with weight gain, underdeveloped posterior delt and upper back in relation to
anterior deltoid and is often a precursor to a tear.

I was told the best way to tell the difference between an impingement and tear is the range of movement and amount of pain.

By no means am I a shoulder expert just paraphrasing a conversation.

**MuscleScience** · 04-17-2017, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by numbere

I went on a few dates with a physical therapist and she said RC impingement is a common injury for BBers and PLers who commonly drive with one arm or sleep on their side.

Also that the chance impingement increases with weight gain, underdeveloped posterior delt and upper back in relation to
anterior deltoid and is often a precursor to a tear.

I was told the best way to tell the difference between an impingement and tear is the range of movement and amount of pain.

By no means am I a shoulder expert just paraphrasing a conversation.

I know this painfully well, I had two acromial plasties from baseball. My bone actually hypertrophed from the repetitive stress and constant inflammation. Sucks pretty bad, I had to ice after every practice and wieghts regardless if I threw a bullpen or had a game.

**600@50** · 04-17-2017, 04:26 PM

RC injuries take time to heal. If it hurts then don't do it. Ice after any upper body workout. Heat or ice when you're in bed or watching TV. If it's a complete tear you may need surgery. I've had 5 RC injuries from benching and none required surgery. Average rehab time was about 15 months to get to a point of no pain. Quickest was a year. Do not rush it. Ibuprofen is your friend. Don't even consider a cortisone injection as you will only make it worse when it wears off. If you go about this the right way and don't rush it you'll be back to close to 100%. If you have surgery it's still going to take at least a year to be pain free. I just worked back up to 545 today on the bench totally pain free. Looking for 585-600 in a few months. Hang in there and best of luck.

**Kenny357** · 04-19-2017, 08:41 PM

Thanks for all the replies guys! I will keep all this in mind. It has gotten slightly better with a bit of cryotherapy and ice. The hardest part for me is resting the shoulder. My job requires a lot of stress on the shoulder but I've been doing everything I can to accommodate the injury. Did 2 heavy leg days this week with today being day 2 and I'm going to see how my body reacts. I'm trying to think of some forearm excersises that I can do without putting too much stress on the shoulder. Any suggestions?

**numbere** · 04-20-2017, 11:27 AM

OP regarding you original question, maybe you should consider changing your rep counts and doing some power lifting.

If you stick in the 1-3 rep range, while increasing the weight, you should be able to train legs 3 times a week.

If you do say a Monday\Wednesday\Friday split then on Friday you can add a bit of volume or some accessory movements given that you'll have a few more days of rest.

My gym has a forearm machine that I use about twice a week.

Other than that I use Captains of Crush grippers to work forearms.

**Kenny357** · 06-14-2017, 03:02 PM

Wanted to throw up an update on the shoulder. I decided to drop my cycle completely and 2 weeks later lost use of my shoulder almost completely. Did MRI and they found I had a slap tear which according to them requires surgery. Scheduled surgery, had surgery. When I went in for my follow up the doc says that when he got in there there was no tear. What he found was a lot of arthritis and missing cartilage on the joint itself. Doc says to find a new line of work and to quit going heavy in the gym. It's been about 4 weeks since surgery. I started deca again right away at around 270mg/week. It is slowly getting better but according to the doc, there will always be some pain. Going to run hgh for the next year and save up for stem cell surgery.

**TRA** · 06-14-2017, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Kenny357

Wanted to throw up an update on the shoulder. I decided to drop my cycle completely and 2 weeks later lost use of my shoulder almost completely. Did MRI and they found I had a slap tear which according to them requires surgery. Scheduled surgery, had surgery. When I went in for my follow up the doc says that when he got in there there was no tear. What he found was a lot of arthritis and missing cartilage on the joint itself. Doc says to find a new line of work and to quit going heavy in the gym. It's been about 4 weeks since surgery. I started deca again right away at around 270mg/week. It is slowly getting better but according to the doc, there will always be some pain. Going to run hgh for the next year and save up for stem cell surgery.

Wow, I can see an MRI missing a SLAP lesion but not calling one that doesn't exist. IMHO (or not so humble more likely the case) shoulders should always get an MRI Arthrgram to identify SLAP lesions. Shoulders are complex and difficult to diagnose when very painful without an MRI because things like real SLAP tears can mimic everything else and the exam is equivocal.
I also would not advocate using single maneuver tests to determine cause. There are a ton of good youtube videos on shoulder exams which should include tests for impingement, RC, SLAP, and even infraspinatus issues, bicep tendinitis, bursitis, etc.

As an aside, I had stem cell injections for torn up knee and it has been the magic bullet after everything else, including surgery. I would opt for the stem cell based on your bone marrow blood and not amniotic.

**Jphunter** · 06-18-2017, 07:54 AM

Every 3 or 4 weeks I focus on my inner shoulder muscles , I do this because I have dislocated both shoulders and have a 5 mm tare on my left RC , there is four exercises ises you can do and they are accomplished best with bands or cables .they are mostly rehabilitation e exercises and if done right your shoulder pain will eventually cease and you will be able to get to a point were you can do those exercises only every few weeks as joint maintenance . I'm not a big guy by any means but you can see I pay special attention to my shoulders in my avi . These exercises will change your life in the gym , they did for me anyway . Do some research on PT inner shoulder muscles . It strengthens the muscles that hold your shoulder together , and it happens fast when on cycle be cause they are not movements you normally do .