08-13-2003, 11:26 PM #1
Dual Factory Hypertrophy Training...a must read!!
As a member having self-expiremented with an HST routine some time back (results are linked HERE ) I have found myself receiving several PM's on the topic since that time, having answered each to the best of my ability but more likely than not directing the individual to Brian Haycock's website for a discussion on the principles that I simply did not feel qualified to offer advice on. Additionally, those of you with whom I have discussed training philosophies in the past know that I am an avid proponent of two particular training approaches: 1. Drastically revamping one's routine approximately every 9-12 weeks, and 2. intentionally overtraining (often substantially so) and then intentionally backing off to facilitate a dramatic compensation response if timed correctly (i'd found the best results by using a 6 week ramp up into overtraining and a three week recovery phase). The frustrating aspect of these two approaches, however, is that, despite pouring over the books of Mel Siff and Tudor Bompa (among many others) I've never quite possessed the vernacular to intelligently discuss these approaches in a way that is backed by science AND experience (being an English major and all).
The point of this drawn out paragraph was to bring to your attention an approach to training which I recently came across and I believe it not only incorporates much of what I instinctively and/or intuitively have arrived at in my experiences, but goes above and beyond that and takes addresses several aspects of the training equation which many of us, in the worst case scenario have ignored altogether, and in the best case scenario unwittingly adhere to while following our "gut" or "instincts".
So, without further delay, I HIGHLY recommend you download this word document and give it a read. Whether or not you agree with the principles, I'm confident in stating that it will easily be one of the most informative and thought-provoking pieces you'll have read in some time.
I have asked the author of the document to pop in and offer his insights into our discussion (as I'm hoping one does in fact blossom) and perhaps field some questions, so I'm greatly looking forward to that. Happy reading and all and let's see if we can't get something rolling in the workout forum this week.
Last edited by BigGreen; 08-14-2003 at 09:34 AM.
08-14-2003, 12:11 AM #2
A great read. I'll be starting this program in about a week. I've been looking for a program like this, and you've given it to me. Also BG, could you attach a url to your HST training thread? I just want to find out a lil bit more about this. Do you guys suggest I keep a journal of my progress on this Dual factor Training? And if so in which forum.
Once Again, thanks for the read BG.
08-14-2003, 12:43 AM #3Junior Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
hmm interesting read ... but does he have any testomonials or anything like that ? some figures for his system against the others ... like will i gain alot more on this then say an older style of lifting . i know all people respond different ... but if its better .. then most people should respond better regardless .. i wouldn't mind seeing some numbers to support his system thats all ...
08-14-2003, 09:18 AM #4Originally Posted by lilbull
Also, I think you should definitely keep a journal of your experiences with this program...and I'd keep it right in this program. One of my mini-missions of late has been to rejuvenate this forum...i think we have far too many sources of information on this board not to have this particular forum become a little more active.
08-14-2003, 09:29 AM #5Originally Posted by alert
Also, I would make the argument, insofar as I understand the concepts of DFHT, that it is not necessarily antithetical to "older style" lifting. Again, the author can correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding, but I believe one could "tweak" this program, or employ the philosophies of it (albeit not to a "T") while following an older lifting style. One could feasibly incorporate nothing but deads, squats and bench presses, and so long as they acknowledge and address more factors than simply supercompensation, still experience some success. In fact, my greatest success in employing the philosophies of this program (long before I heard of this program, as the author will openly state the philosophies are nothing "new", per se, but rather he has synthesized competing theories and approaches in an intelligent and insightful manner) was to employ an "old school" late 70's/early 80's double split (one workout at 6:00am one at 6:00pm FIVE days a week with every muscle being hit AT LEAST twice a week...usually three for six weeks or so) in order that I might catapult myself into the fringe of serious overtraining (not the perception of overtraining that many hold today...erroneously in my opinion) and then follow that with a strategic "back off" phase of about four weeks, during which the real growth would take place (I believe Tom Platz was an advocate of such an approach towards the end of his training). I would say that this approach was true to the philosophies of DFHT, if only partially and haphazardly. Once again, however, I'll let the author comment on this, as I'm by no means an expert, simply a very curious trainer.
Last edited by BigGreen; 08-14-2003 at 09:32 AM.
08-14-2003, 09:56 AM #6
BG, I don't have time here at work to read this long ass post ( ) so I'll try to look it over tonight and get back with ya on my ideas on it.
08-14-2003, 10:55 AM #7Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
I think the setup of this routine is very well thought out and that it would probably produce nice gains in strength and size if diet was right and intensity was kept at the right level. Although for me personally I can already look at it and tell that there are some things I would have to tweak to produce the gains I would want.
08-14-2003, 11:30 AM #8Originally Posted by solidj55
08-14-2003, 11:57 AM #9Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
I will bro. You have inspired me to write my own training ideas and such down into a long thought out post. I would really like you to read it. It outlines what exercises work best for me, how many sets, reps, how to outline the routine, basically everything my training for the past few years has been about.
08-14-2003, 12:28 PM #10
Anyone feel like posting this in txt format? My MS word is all screwed up and i can't read doc files.
08-14-2003, 12:42 PM #11Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
Dual Factor Hypertrophy Training:
Note: first off, I'd like to thank AngelFace, JohnSmith, and Gavin for contributing to this article.
There are basically two accepted theories in the world of weight training. One is called Supercompensation (or Single Factor Theory), and the other is called the Fitness Fatigue Theory (or Dual Factor Theory). Bodybuilding tends to follow the Supercompensation way of thinking, while virtually every field of strength and conditioning, athletics, etc. follows the Dual Factor Theory. The reasoning that almost everyone involved in strength training adheres to the Dual Factor Theory is because there is scientific proof that it works, not to mention that the eastern bloc countries that have adhered to this theory have kicked America's ass at every Olympics since the 1950s.
Bodybuilding, for years, has basically ignored Dual Factor Theory and opted for Single Factor Theory training. In the following paragraphs, I hope to prove to you why Dual Factor Theory should be accepted, taught, and adhered to in the world of bodybuilding as well as all other athletes concerned with strength and conditioning.
Note: The one exception to the rule of "all bodybuilding programs based on Supercompensation" is Bryan Haycock's HST, which, from Bryan's own mouth, says that it wasn't based on dual factor theory, although he hit it dead-on, on all points. What I didn't care for personally with HST is that the same amount of importance is placed on the 15-rep phase and the negative rep phase as with the 10 rep and 5 rep phases. The thickness that rep ranges in the 3-8 range provide are far more impressive to me personally than those who focus on 12-15 rep schemes and countless negatives. I also wasn't excited about working the entire body in one workout. The CNS drain was unbelievable. However, in saying that, HST is the best I've seen compared to everything else out there, and I did make good progress on it.
The Supercompensation Theory has been, in the bodybuilding community, the most widely accepted school of thought. However, people are beginning to see it as a bit too simplistic (the strength and conditioning and athletic movements have never accepted this practice). The theory itself is based on the fact that training depletes certain substances (like glycogen, and slowing protein synthesis). Training is seen as catabolic, draining the body of its necessary nutrients and fun stuff. So to grow, according to the theory, the body must then be rested for the appropriate/ optimal amount of time, AND, it (the body) must be supplied with all the nutrients it lost. If both of these things are done correctly, then theoretically your body will increase protein synthesis and store more nutrients than it originally had! (i.e. your muscles will be bigger!)
So obviously the most important part of this theory is TIMING! (Specifically concerning the rest period). But that's where the problem comes in. "If the rest period was too short, then the individual would not be completely recovered and as such the training would deplete the substance even more, which over a period of time would result in overtraining and a loss of performance. If the rest interval were too long then the training would lose its stimulus property, and the individual would recover completely and lose the window of opportunity to provide the stimulus again. If the interval is optimal then improvements surely follow" (AF).
"So, given the one factor theory (Supercompensation), which looks at physical ability as, of course, one factor, you are left with the problem of timing workouts to correspond to the supercompensation wave... anything sooner or later will lead to a useless workout"(JS).
Another issue concerning the Supercompensation/ Single Factor Theory is that of FAILURE. Almost every program that utilizes this type of training advocates the use of muscle/ CNS failure, and then fully rest, and then beat the crap out of your muscles again, then rest, etc (I'm referring to the "work one bodypart per day, six days per week" program as well as HIT, popularized by Mike Mentzer). The issue is that it has now been proven that total failure is not necessarily needed for optimal growth. It has been shown that leaving a rep or two in the tank can and will yield the same results AND therefore a shorter rest period will be needed and less accumulation of fatigue will still be present by the time the next training session rolls around.
A Better Way
The Dual Factor Theory, also called Fitness Fatigue Theory is somewhat more complex than the Supercompensation Theory. The theory is based on the fact that and individual's fitness and fatigue are totally independent of each other. This theory is entirely dependant on one's base conditioning (or physical preparedness or fitness). The thing is, when you have a high level of fitness (or conditioning/ preparedness) this level changes fairly slowly. This is because over the short term fitness does not fluctuate often. (However, fatigue can change (increase or decrease) fairly quickly when compared to fitness).
"The theory works like an equilibrium in that training will have an immediate effect on the body (similar to supercompensation). This effect is the combination of fatigue and gain (again, remember the equilibrium thing). So after a workout, because of the stimulus that training provides, preparedness/conditioning/fitness increases (gain) but at the same time will decrease due to fatigue from the training."
"So, the outcome of the training session is the result of both the positive and negative consequences of the training session. These two outcomes depend on time. By striking the correct balance, fatigue should be large in extent but short in how long it lasts. Gain on the other hand should be moderate, however, and is longer in duration. Typically the relationship is 1:3, if fatigue lasts x amount of time then gain lasts 3x amount of time."
"Given the two factor theory, which separates physical fitness or preparedness and fatigue, you see that the timing of individual workouts is unimportant to long term gains (unlike Supercompensation)... in other words regardless of whether or not fatigue is or is not present, fitness can and will still be increased" (which is the goal)...
So what you get concerning the two-factor theory is a period of peaking fatigue (maybe 6 weeks), followed by a period of rest (maybe 2 weeks deloading, then one or two weeks of total rest). You view entire weeks and maybe months, as you would of viewed just one workout with the single factor theory. For example, in the single factor theory, one workout represents a period of fatigue. But, in the two-factor theory, 6 weeks would represent a period of fatigue. In the single factor theory, a day or two (up to a week) represents a period of rest. But in the two-factor theory, up to four weeks may represent a period rest.
"What is important to note is that there is almost universal agreement among scientists and athletes and coaches in all sports EXCEPT bodybuilding that the two factor theory is correct and the single factor theory is not correct and is in fact suitable only for beginners to follow when planning training."
"It is also important to note that most athletes in most sports are experiencing some level of constant fatigue ALWAYS, except for maybe a couple of weekends a year, when they are peaking. Training takes place daily against a backdrop of fatigue". Therefore, you should be able to see why, concerning the single factor theory, it would be very hard to ever fully recover, unless you sat on your ass for two weeks and did nothing."
Applying it to the real world
When setting up dual factor periodization for the bodybuilder, it is important to remember to plan for periods of fatigue and periods of rest. During a fatigue period (say, 3 weeks), you slowly build up fatigue, and never fully recover. Then you have a period of recovery (another 1-3 weeks) where you train with reduced frequency, volume, or intensity. (My preference is to keep intensity high, while drastically lowering volume and slightly lowering frequency.) At any rate, the fatiguing and recovery periods most likely won't be as drastic for a bodybuilder as it would for a strength athlete because there will be no peaking phase for performance (at no point are you required as a bodybuilder to perform a competition based on strength). Additionally, bodybuilders need less fatigue and more recovery present at any given time (outside of the actual training sessions) when compared to strength athletes.
So here's what I've come up with
The general layout of the program will be to train upper body twice per week and lower body twice per week (so, we'll be providing double the training stimulus of typical one bodypart per day programs). The workouts will be fairly intense, heavy on free weight compound exercises, lower volume (per workout, and drastically lower volume per bodypart), and higher frequency than normal bodybuilding workouts. (Now, again, this is individual). Some of you won't be able to handle this amount of frequency yet, because your fitness level sucks. Some powerlifters, OLY lifters, and other strength athletes train up to 20 or 30 times each week (and most of them a minimum of 10 times per week) because their fitness level is so high. If you find this level of frequency is too high, shorten the loading period and lengthen the recovery period, at first. Or, reduce the frequency to training three times per week, on a Mon, Wed, Fri, scheme, etc. until your preparedness is increased, and your body can handle the frequency.)
The real difference is in failure and periodization (this is so each body part can be trained twice per week as opposed to only once)
No exercise should be taken to failure when using submaximal reps, however, all exercises should be taken to within one or two reps of failure by the final set of the exercise. If muscular failure is reached, there is no way you can train with an increased frequency without overtraining.
Periodization will be individual to the lifter. However, for the sake of this program a 3-week period of loading followed by one week of recovery is given. (Additionally, if one isn't fully recovered after the one week recovery period, and fatigue still builds, increase the recovery period to two weeks, or have a "recovery month" every 4 or 5 months where you'll have one week of loading and three weeks of recovery during that month to allow your body to fully recover.)
Progressive Overload is absolutely imperative in every exercise, making sure that load or reps are increased, or that rest periods are decreased to keep intensity high (during loading phases). (Of course, during the recovery phases, if volume is lowered, and frequency reduced slightly, then intensity can and should still be kept high, although the load should be reduced just slightly (approx. 10%) as there is no reason to attempt to set records through progressive overload during this time of recovery.)
Many different rep ranges will be used. I am partial to the use of rep ranges in the 3-10 range, as it tends to give the lifter a great balance of extreme muscle thickness (like the look of a bodybuilder with a powerlifting background) as well as great neural efficiency.
A. Use of Neural Efficiency (as well as some Myofibral Hypertrophy) occurs in rep ranges of 1-3. (Neural Efficiency increases the percentage of motor units that can be activated at any given time. There is little to no effect on size but increases strength will be great. Little to no protein turnover occurs in this rep range as load is too high and mechanical work is too low.)
B. Mostly Myofibral and Sarcomere Hypertrophy and very little Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy occur with rep ranges of 3-5. (Sarcomere hypertrophy increases contractile proteins in muscle thereby increasing strength directly and also size. Book knowledge suggests that growth here will be mostly myofibral/ sarcomere hypertrophy and will be accompanied with strength gains in other rep ranges and improvements in neural efficiency. Therefore this is perhaps the best rep range for increasing strength. Better balance of load / work done for hypertrophy so no surprises there.)
C. Myofibral, Sarcomere, and Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy (lots of growth as well strength gain within this rep range with little transfer to 1rm) occur with rep ranges of 5-10. (Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy does not directly increase strength but can affect it by increasing tendon angle at the attachment - but of course it increases size.)
D. Some Sarcoplasmic with little Myofibral and Sarcomere Hypertrophy occur in rep ranges of 10-15. (More fatigue and a greater extent of waste products are associated with this rep range. Possible increase in capillary density.)
E. Capillary density increases with little Sarcoplasmic growth with rep ranges above 15. (Muscle endurace begins to become a factor (but who needs that?). Also, waste products are intense lactic acid buildup to the point of making some individuals sick.)
Here's the breakdown:
Session A (Monday):
* (-)Low Incline Barbell Press/ Closegrip/ 5 Board Closegrip
Dips (Low Chest Dips Followed by one set of Tricep Dips)
(-)Seated Military Press
Dumbell Overhead Press
Forearms (one superset of wrist curls, reverse wrist curls, and twists)
Session B (Thursday):
(-)Decline Dumbell Press
Low Cable Rows
Lateral Raises (rear, followed by side), Rotator Work (front, side, and rear)
Forearms (one superset)
Session C (Tuesday):
Hack Squats (Old school barbell style are my favorite)
Straight Leg Deadlifts
Session D (Friday):
*Deadlifts/ Trap Shrugs
Here's the spreadsheet layout of the program set up on an 8 week periodization schedule; 3 weeks of loading, followed by a week of deloading, followed by three more weeks of loading, followed by another week of deloading...
Session A: Monday Typical Week A Week B Week C Week R (rest) Week D (high) Week E Week F (low) Week R (rest)
rduc load 10% rduc load 10%
*Low Incline Bench Press 3x5 (-) max 3x5 (-) 3x5 (-) 3x5 2x12 3x5 (-) 3x3 3x5
Closegrip Bench Press 1x8 1x8 1x8 1x8 1x12 1x8 2x5
5 Board Closegrip Bench Press 1x8 1x8 1x8 1X8 1x10 1x8 2x3
Chest Dips, then Tricep Dips 2x10, 1x10 2x10, 1x10 2x10, 1x10 2x10, 1x10 1x10, 1x10 1x15, 1x15 2x10, 1x10 2x5, 1x5 1x10, 1x10
Dumbell Extensions 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10 1x15 2x10 2x6 2x10
Seated Military Press 3x5 (-) 3x5 (-) 3x5 (-) 3x5 (-) 3x5 2x12 3x5 (-) 3x3 3x5
Dumbell Overhead Press 2x8 2x8 2x8 2x8 1x15 2x8 2x6
Barbell Rows 3x8 3x8 3x8 3x8 3x8 2x12 3x8 4x3 or 3x5 3x8
Pulldowns (wide grip) 2x8 (-) 2x8 (-) 2x8 (-) 2x8 (-) 2x15 2x8 (-) 3x5
Upright Rows 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x15 2x10 3x8 2x10
Barbell Curls 2x10 (-) 2x10 (-) 2x10 (-) 2x10 (-) 2x10 2x15 2x10 (-) 3x6 2x10
Dumbell Curls 2x8 2x8 2x8 2x8 1x15 2x8 2x6
Forearms 1x45 1x45 1x45 1x45 1x45 1x45 1x45
Session B: Thursday
Decline Dumbell Press 3x8 (-) 3x8 (-) 3x8 (-) 3x8 (-) 2x8 2x15 3x8 (-) 1x5, 1x4, 1x3 2x8
Flat Flys 2x8 2x8 2x8 2x8 1x8 1x15 2x8 2x6 1x8
*Push Press 3x3-5 3x3-5 3x3-5 max 3x3 2x12 3x3-5 3x3 3x3
Pullups (wide grip) 3xfailure (-) 3xfailure (-) 3xfailure (-) 3xfailure (-) 2xfailure (-) 3xfailure (-) 3xfailure (-) 3xfailure (-) 2xfailure (-)
Low Cable Rows 2x8 2x8 2x8 2x8 2x15 2x8 3x5
Lateral Raises (rear, side) 2 sprsets x10 2 sprsets x10 2 sprsets x10 2 sprsets x10 1x15 2 sprsets x10 2x8
Rotator Work 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10 1x15 2x10 2x10
Skull Crushers 2x8 2x8 2x8 2x8 2x8 2x15 2x8 3x5 2x8
Barbell Curls 3x5 (-) 3x5 (-) 3x5 (-) 3x5 (-) 3x5 2x15 3x5 (-) 2x6 3x5
Pushdowns 2x10 (-) 2x10 (-) 2x10 (-) 2x10 (-) 2x15 2x10 (-) 3x6
Hammer Curls 2x8 2x8 2x8 2x8 1x15 2x8 2x6
Forearms 1x45 1x45 1x45 1x45 1x45 1x45 1x45
Session C: Tuesday Typical Week A Week B Week C Week R (rest) Week D (high) Week E Week F (low) Week R (rest)
rduc load 10% rduc load 10%
*Squats 5x5 max 5x5 5x5 3x5 5x5 5x5 5x3 3x5
*Goodmornings 3x5 3x5 max 3x5 2x5 2x10 3x5 3x3 2x5
*Cleans 3x5 3x5 3x5 max 2x5 1x15 3x5 3x3 2x5
Hack Squats 2x8 2x8 2x8 2x8 2x15 2x8 3x5
Straight-Leg Deadlifts 2x8 2x8 2x8 2x8 2x15 2x8 3x5
Calves 3x10 3x10 3x10 3x10 2x20 3x10 5x5
Reverse Hypers 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10
Abdominals 3x10 3x10 3x10 3x10 2x10 2x20 3x10 4x5 2x10
Obliques 1x10 1x10 1x10 1x10 1x10 1x20 1x10 2x5 1x10
Session D: Friday
Squats 3x10 3x10 2x20 3x10 2x10 3x15 3x10 3x8 2x10
*Deadlifts, then Trap Shrugs 4x5, 2x20 4x5, 2x20 4x5, 2x20 4x5, 2x20 2x5 4x5, 2x20 4x5, 2x20 4x5, 2x20 2x5
Front Squats 2x8 2x8 2x8 2x8 2x15 2x8 3x5
Ham/ Glute/ Calf Raises 3x10 3x10 3x10 3x10 1x10 3x10 3x10 3x10 1x10
Donkey Calves 1xfailure 1xfailure 1xfailure 1xfailure 1xfailure 1xfailure 1xfailure
Reverse Hypers 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10 2x10
Abdominals 3x10 3x10 3x10 3x10 2x10 2x20 3x10 4x5 2x10
Obliques 1x10 1x10 1x10 1x10 1x10 1x20 1x10 2x5 1x10
Every eight weeks, the exercises with an asterisk (*) should be performed to their respective 1RM (rotate the weeks that you are maxing out on each exercise so that you don't find yourself maxing out on multiple exercises in one workout.) (The reason for maxing out on certain exercises is to increase neural efficiency as well as myofibral hypertrophy).
Mild use of eccentrics during loading weeks (one or two reps at the end of the last set, occasionally) can be used for the exercises marked with a (-) (This is because tension is increased with eccentrics due to the fact that fewer MUs are recruited, and therefore more tension is put on each individual recruited MU. With added tension comes additional protein degradation and therefore a greater degree of hypertrophy during the recovery period.)
Exercises with an asterisk (*) should be performed explosively, while exercises WITHOUT an asterisk (*) should be performed in a controlled, comfortable manner, but not superslow.
Every six weeks, perform squats in session D with 2 sets of 20 reps for increased lactic acid threshold and capillary density. (and it's just a good overall shock to the system.)
Every six weeks, an entire week will be performed with lower load and higher reps than normal (this is to allow for capillary density to increase, connective tissue strengthening, additional sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, and increased lactic acid threshold) and every six weeks a heavier load and lower reps than normal (for increased neural efficiency and myofibral hypertrophy) will be performed.
Stretch following each exercise session to help aid in recovery and possibly induce hyperplasia (the exception is to stretch each bodypart immediately after its last exercise in Upper Body Session A).
Intense rest and recovery techniques should be utilized on a daily basis (10 min. cardio blasts, ultra-light load high rep work for flooding an area with blood 24 hours after working that area, contrast showers, massage, water consumption, stretching, etc. although, occasionally these should be avoided to allow the body to respond to a higher state of fatigue.)
Concentric-Only work should also be utilized for increases in preparedness, general recovery, and additional means of quality training and weight gain without fatigue good choices would be sled dragging, medicine ball throws, wheel-barrow walking, etc. These extra workouts should be performed approximately 6-12 hours following training and according to the preparedness of the individual lifter. (However, these are great ways to build preparedness/fitness with very little fatigue buildup.)
Do the required sets and reps even if you are still a little sore from the previous workout. (Now, if you have a horrible case of DOMS, this is a different story but that most likely means you are training much too close to muscular failure than needed).
First of all, change up this program so it works best for you. The one thing I hate about most programs is that the author says to follow his program to a tee or you won't gain a pound. Everyone is different with different needs; so as long as you are following the two factor theory, and know what you are doing, adapt this program to fit your needs. (In saying that, don't bastardize the program. It is well put together and will put solid mass on your body in a relatively short amount of time. The exercises have been carefully chosen, so if you change the exercises at all, make damn sure you know exactly what you are doing; i.e. - don't substitute an anterior deltoid exercise for a medial deltoid exercise just "because they both work the shoulders." This would be a major mistake. Keep the balance there.
Workouts should be kept brief (about 1 hour). Get in there and get out. Additionally, working smaller, antagonistic bodyparts together can be beneficial. (i.e. during barbell curls, instead of resting for a couple minutes between sets, do sets of tricep pushdowns.)
You must continually adapt your workout by changing rep schemes, rest periods, volume, intensity, etc. (occasionally changing an exercise or two) in order to avoid accommodation by the body.
Chest and Tricep exercises can be left to the descretion of the lifter. Pick exercises you like, but make sure you pick compound exercises, as well as exercises that work your weak areas. (In saying that, I have come up with a very well-rounded chest and tricep routine)
Incline Barbell press should be performed with a wide grip, elbows out. Closegrip and 5 Board should be performed with close grip and elbows in. (5 board press is where you glue or nail 5 2"x6" boards togther (about 18" long) and bench press with someone holding the boards on your chest. The range of motion is short (3-4 inches probably), but the strength of the triceps and elbow joint explode!)
I view Incline Barbell Press, Close-grip bench, and 5 Board press as one exercise that basically works both the chest and the triceps simultaneously. The lifter starts with 3 sets of Inclines, and then finishes off with a set of close-grips and a set of 5 board.
Chest Dips and Tricep Dips are also viewed as one exercise that works both the chest and triceps. Start with 2 sets of deep chest dips, and finish with a set of triceps dips, where you only perform the upper part of the dip.
You can substitute pull-throughs for reverse hypers if you don't have access to a reverse hyper machine. (if you don't know what a pull-through or a reverse hyper is, go to www.elitefts.com and check the "ask Dave" section, and go to the FAQ. You'll find a description there. Additional descriptions are http://www.******.com/articles/182squat2.html
Glute/ Ham raises are a must. (If you don't have access to a glute ham machine, go to http://www.******.com/nation_articles/226rene.html and find out how!)
Work forearms any way you want to. The given set and rep scheme is what I use more for prehab because I struggle with tendonitis.
Barbell Rows are best by "starting with the bar on the floor every single rep. Your middle back will have slight bend to it. You pull the bar off the floor quickly with the arms, and by a powerful arch of your middle back. You finish by touching the bar to your upper stomach or middle stomach. At no time is there any movement of the hips or knees, no hip extension at all, all that bends is the middle back and the shoulders and elbows. This is hard to do and you have to have good muscular control to do it, or you'll end up straightening up at the hips along with the arching of the back. But if you can master doing them this way you will get a big back. This works because the lats actually extend (arch) the middle back in addition to other functions, just like with glute-ham extensions compared to leg curls you always get a stronger contraction when you move both the origin and insertion of a muscle, flexing it from both ends so to speak. The bar returns to the floor after each rep. The bent row is actually best done as an explosive movement and the bar is moved fast." (JS)
Pullups are to be done to failure, but not absolute muscular failure. At 260 pounds I can't do very many, so I just do them until I can't complete another full rep, and then I stop.
Rotator work is given purely as prehab for myself. I use what is called a shoulder horn for this work, so I don't tear my rotator cuff up when handling heavy weight during bench press.
For squats, I squat with a wide stance, and sit way back, which tends to put the emphasis on my glutes and hamstrings more so than my quads. I find that greater overall leg development is achieved by squatting in this manner. If you are purely a quad squatter, you most likely won't need an additional quad exercise.
08-14-2003, 01:44 PM #12
I'm heading out for a job interview in a few minutes, so I do not have time to read the entire article. I will post a follow up later tonight, I have a lot of thoughts on this...
08-14-2003, 07:24 PM #13
Im going to start a fire here. Why put so much thought into a workout? You can follow this program and any other program out there for years, but if you dont follow a more thought out and researched diet the gains will not be optimal. There are more than ample posts on work-outs and different programs but there is a HUGE lack of diet programs.
I know this is a work-out forum and whenever someone asks about lifting all you guys (the good ones ) always ask and tell them to watch there diet. But 23,540 posts vs 19,915 is backwards.
Pro's and even experienced lifters will tell you 80% diet and 20% lifting. Most dont even change up there work-out for a competition, the thing that changes is their diet.
Sorry I had to get that out of the way first. The program looks well planned and thought out. Hats off to the author. But I have to voice my opinion. Do you really need to think a workout plan through this much? Im guessing that a majority of people extremely high knowledge about atrophy and work-outs but far less about diet and nutritrion. "I took some ripped-fuel to boost my workout"... this is a statement commonly heard but do most people know the mechanics why? Sure it has caffenine but do they know how the chemistry in the body changes? Take a spoonful of sugar with that caffenine dose and watch it kick in more because the caffenine is transported to the receptors better. I am by far an expert but do have some knowledge and try to learn something new every day.
Once again I apologize for the "off" subject notes. This plan (along with many others) offers a new approach to work-out and should be looked at and tested to see if it gives you the desired effects. I think a core excercise tool called pyramid's could achieve the same desired results. Everybody is individual with what works for them.
08-14-2003, 10:14 PM #14
Well there's a lot to be said. First off I'd like to agree with big ol' legs in saying that in bodybuilding, dieting is everything, or at least close to it. However, when training for strength, obviously, this is not the case. Powerlifters prepping themselves for a meet will put all their focus into their training, and hardly have to worry about diet (they just eat whatever they want, mostly a lot of junk food). Although this was off the topic, I'm just pointing out that big ol' leg's statement is not exactly true depending on your goals.
World-renowned powerlifting guru Louie Simmons, the creator of WSB training, or "conjugated" training, which focus on speed, number of reps, and maximal effort, works because it on so many different facets of intense training... building red muscle fiber while increasing your maximum effort power will obviously, increase your strength. Simmons, obviously a very bright man when it comes to the subject of training, is completely against HRT Training. He complained that football players straight out of high school who have come to ask for his advice who had implyed using HRT training in High school were, for the most part, unable to bench press 200 lbs, or squat 300. No joke. So if you are going to go for HRT for possible strength gains, don't count on it. Most likely due to the overtraining that allows for maximum compensation later on.
As for bodybuilding purposes, which, I assume on this board, is the main reason to try for it, I think it looks good. That's a very ingenuitive idea to use overtraining as a means of growth. Good luck to all who try it! Post results in this forum so we can all keep up with you.
I also agree with Big Green, by the way. There are several intelligent people on this board, there is a wealth of information that has surely not been shared yet. Hopefully more people will come to this forum now so it starts cooking!
BTW... Sorry to bring up a possible negative part of what seems to be a solid routine. Good luck to you all.
08-15-2003, 09:09 AM #15Member
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08-16-2003, 12:13 PM #16
My first question to AnimalMass would be whether he has noticed any trends with regards to a ratio between the overload and deloading phase in the feedback he has received. He begins working roughly with a 3:1 ratio but more than allows for a ratio all the way up to 1:1 while discussing the program. Experience has shown me that as I temporarily burst through to overtraining with the intent of then backing off in a manner at least loosely conducive to the philosophies of DFHT, i tend to see the best results in a roughly 3:2 ratio (nine weeks overload and about 4-5 weeks deloading). However, I should stress that the nine week overload was not constant, but rather was traditionally pyramided up in three week "blocks". Weeks 1-3 represented the fringes of overload, weeks 4-7 a healthy dose of overload and weeks 8-10 flat out overtraining to the point where I'd no doubt begin to regress if I didn't then back off (if i could even mentally and phsyically keep up with the demands, which often include double splits and hitting a bodypart 3x per week at varying rep ranges.
08-16-2003, 07:50 PM #17
I gave most of the article a quick read through.
I have no idea how one would respond to this program, but doesn't it seem weird to anyone that no sets are taken to failure? It could be more beneficial, but to me that would just about take all the fun out of workin out.
I think this would also cause problems when you're trying to figure out how to progressively overload your muscles. I beleive it says to stop 1-2 reps short of failure, but I can't tell you how many times(especially on leg day) where i thought i had maybe just enough energy to rack the weight but somehow summon the strength for another 5 reps. You really just surprise yourself sometimes.
Theres also a couple other thoughts i have on this, but i'm too tired and the words are not coming, I will think about this again and read it over again later.
08-16-2003, 08:56 PM #18Originally Posted by saboudian
That being said, when I have progressively overloaded in the past (though I'm not sure this is a strict adherence to the definition) I tended to manipulate frequency and volume more so than intensity as it applies to proximity to failure, and it seemed to do the trick for me when in fact i did employ it, so certainly proximity to failure can not be the only effective way to overload.
08-16-2003, 09:23 PM #19
Good thread. Some can agree with it and some can disagree with it. I think the point is: It is one more routine someone can try. If it works better then that is great. If it does not work better then that person can go back to the original routine.
The thing here is OPTIONS. Options for workouts are great instead of having the same theories for a hundred year.
08-17-2003, 02:16 PM #20Member
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so who's gonna be the guinea pig, and volunter to keep a journal on AR? Any takers
08-17-2003, 02:44 PM #21Originally Posted by Yung Wun
08-18-2003, 02:35 AM #22
I will be starting the program today, and I will keep a journal in this forum.
08-18-2003, 07:55 AM #23Originally Posted by lilbull
08-18-2003, 12:27 PM #24Originally Posted by BigGreen
08-18-2003, 02:25 PM #25Member
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alright Lil Bull
i'll definately be looking forward 2 this
08-18-2003, 08:34 PM #26
I dont know why things must be so complicated now days .Big Green I know you have tryied all kinds of differant routines and I have also .This is what I think.... The program will work .I dont think it will be any better than anything else out there but Im sure none the less it will work .The first thing I thought when I saw this routine (from another post elsewhere) was There is no way Im going to spend the time on it . I hope lillbull goes for it and post's his results that would be cool ...But as for me I have found more size and strength in powelifting than anything out there period .My back ,chest ,delts ,legs ,and arms have seen results from lifitng heavy all the time .And I totaly overtrain alot but after I take a break BAM its go time again .The cool thing about it is is easy by easy I mean the routine's .If some one wants big arms I think they sould hit deads and rows hard !!Work that back big and your arms will grow like crazzzy.Or what about a thick chest or huge delts just give Metal Militia a shot and then look at your size in 8 weeks .I dont know there is just something sweet about simple gains .And by the way Iam in no way puting this routine down for those who may think Iam .In fact if you want to spend the time on all of it maybe it could be just what some are looking for,, I just feel that if you train hard eat right and rest you will grow period ....CDOG
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