Thread: Cycling glutamine
10-23-2003, 07:25 PM #1Junior Member
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- Jul 2003
Is glutamine naturally produced in your body? I know creatine is naturally produced in your body, what about glutamine? Some people say you should cycle creatine 2 months on 1 month off, what about glutamine? Would it be wise to do the same?
10-23-2003, 08:40 PM #2
Glutamine is produced in the body - it is converted from other amino acids in your body.
that being said, there is no reason to cycle glutamine, that i can see. It's not something that your body adapts to in that way...
10-24-2003, 06:04 AM #3Originally Posted by Slugger
10-24-2003, 08:04 AM #4
no need to cycle glutamine.
glutamines anti-catabolic effects are best seen when restricting calories. however, when bulking glutamine can help with quicker recovery times
10-24-2003, 08:41 AM #5
Glutamine is an enzyme in your body, actually glutamine synthetase is what makes glutamine in the body. There are a few different types of glutamine synthetase as well. The exact way that glutamine works and everything that it does in the body is way too much to get into right now, but part of what it does is help build proteins. I will say that glutamine is not made from combining aminos though. But without glutamine, your body wouldn't be able to combine amino acids.
Glutamine synthetase has to be controled. This may get a little confusing, but if you read it over a couple times you'll get it.....
Glutamine's major function is to control the use of nitrogen inside your cells. When nitrogen is needed, glutamine synthetase has to be activated so that it produces glutamine, so that the cells don't starve.
When there is enough nitrogen, the glutamine synthetase must be deacivated so that it stops producing glutamine. If it were to continue producing glutamine, then you would end up with too much glut in your body.
Glut comes in different forms, such as Glut-4. Glut-4 is found in the muscles and is responsible for responsiveness to insulin . Some doctors and researchers believe that not having enough glut-4 can cause some kinds of diabetes.
There are also other types of glut, such as glut-1, glut-2, and glut-3. Your body has a need for each of these types of glut.
If you are supplimenting glutamine, then your body doesn't need to make it's own or as much of it's own by using the glutamine synthetase.
If your body stops making glutamine naturally, you can end up with a deficit of glut.
So, to answer your questions, yes, glutamine is naturally produced in the body. And, yes, it would be a good idea to cycle glutamine, even though there is no reason to cycle creatine.
As Pump said, there is no real need to suppliment glutamine.
10-24-2003, 10:41 AM #6
Are you even going so far as to say that supplementing with glutamine is a bad thing, being as it may shut down the natural production of glutamine by your body?
10-24-2003, 12:48 PM #7
I wouldn't out right say that it's a bad thing, but I would say that it's not necessary. It has the pontential to be a bad thing. Just like supplimenting testosterone is not innately a bad thing, but can be a bad thing. This is why people cycle things like testosterone.
A person's money can be better spent on something else.
10-24-2003, 10:40 PM #8Originally Posted by DBarcelo
10-29-2003, 09:05 AM #9
Glutamine is cheap and there is no need to cycle it.
01-25-2004, 10:49 AM #10Originally Posted by Mr. Death
01-25-2004, 12:23 PM #11Originally Posted by DBarcelo
Glutamine is an amino acid. There is no enzyme called "glutamine"
The GLUT transporters have nothing to do with glutamine. Glut = glucose transporter.
01-25-2004, 01:57 PM #12LM1332 Guest
well **** i have high levels of CPK because of creatine and everybody said its safe no danger envolved well **** if ill keep on taking it and working out soon i can get a freaking heart spasm and ****
01-26-2004, 07:45 AM #13Originally Posted by longhornDr
Every cell in the human body has to regulate nitrogen and glutamine plays a major role in that. That's the enzyme glutamine, not the amino acid, L-glutamine. That is why, in my update I said there is a differnce between glutamine and L-Glutamine (even though some people use the terms interchangably for some reason).
Also, Glut is directly connected to Glutamine because glutamine synthesase is what builds glutamine in the body and the process of creating glutamine leaves residuals, one of which is Glut.
Lastly, Glut-4 is an glucose transporter. As I also wronte, there are different types of Glut.
There is no misinformation here, just seems to be a confusion in terms. By saying there is no enzyme called glutamine is misinformed and saying that glut has nothing to do with glutamine is misinformed.
Lm1332, I'm not familiar with CPK. I know creatine can increase your serum creatine levels if you take more than 5 grams per day and that can lead to a thickening of the heart walls.
I'll try to find some info on the internet about the enzyme Glutamine so people don't think there is only the amino acid L-Glutamine. Come to think of it, that's probably why they use them interchangably. They sell L-glutamine saying it does the things that the enzyme glutamine does and people take it, but in reality it's only helping your digestive system. Some people have a natural problem with digesting things like protein, they take the L-Glutamine and are able to digest more protein than they used to be able to do, so they think it is actually doing the same thing as the enzyme.
01-26-2004, 07:59 AM #14
01-26-2004, 01:46 PM #15
There is no enzyme named "glutamine".
Glutamine synthetase is not glutamine, it's a protein.
Just because an enzyme has glutamine as part of the name does not mean it is "glutamine" or a form of glutamine.
01-26-2004, 02:01 PM #16Originally Posted by longhornDr
01-26-2004, 02:03 PM #17
I see this is getting nowhere quick. Like I said, there are different types of glutamine in the body. I never said that glutamine synthetase was glutamine, I said it makes glutamine. And in reality, it is a type of glutamine. Glutamine synthetase is an enzyme, not a protein. And glutamine synthetase is technically a type of glutamine, not because it has glutamine in it's name, but because without it, you can't make L-Glutamine, Glutamine, Glut or any other type of glutamine.
I gave a link to a site that explains it a little. That's all I can do. At this point, you can believe what you want but I hope anyone that reads this thread doesn't get too confused about this whole thing and just looks at the link for themself.
01-26-2004, 02:12 PM #18Originally Posted by DBarcelo
01-26-2004, 03:10 PM #19
This is getting kinda frustrating. All enzymes are not proteins, though a lot of them are. And I never said they were the same thing, I said they are related. A house cat and a lion are two different types of cats, not the same thing, just related to each other.
01-26-2004, 06:40 PM #20
Dbarcelo... i got ya
01-26-2004, 08:10 PM #21Originally Posted by DBarcelo
01-27-2004, 01:52 PM #22
No, all enzymes are not proteins. If you do an internet search on enzymes, I'm sure you'll find something that tells you that not all enzymes are proteins. But I will admit that MOST enzymes are proteins.
01-27-2004, 02:03 PM #23
There's a lot of confusion between things because people like to use the same name for different things. It's meant to make things easier so people can quickly understand what it's supposed to do, but a lot of times it just confuses people. Like DHT, there's a DHT that you can take as a suppliment to aid in bodybuilding and then there's DHT that's responsible for hair loss. Exact same name, based on the same principle, but completely different really. Creatine is another one. The stuff we take is called creatine, but it's not the same creatine that's in our body. We have to metabolize it in order to turn it into creatine. But some people think it's the same thing and try to inject the stuff intra-veinusly. And the musculoskelital creatine is different from the serum creatine. All three are called creatine, but they are all different. Same thing with Glutamine and all of cunfusion going on in this thread.
Since we've gotton way off subject on this thing, I'll just repeat.....if you're talking about L-Glutamine, there is no reason to cycle it. If you are talking about actual glutamine, then you should probably cycle it because of glutamine's effect on glut production, but I don't know of any clinical data to support it.
01-27-2004, 05:03 PM #24Originally Posted by DBarcelo
01-27-2004, 07:19 PM #25Originally Posted by DBarcelo
There is no such thing.
01-27-2004, 07:25 PM #26Originally Posted by DBarcelo
L-glutamine is "actual" glutamine.
01-28-2004, 08:33 AM #27
This is probably going to be the last post I'm going to write about this.
1) I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet, I said you should be able to find something on here about the subject. A lot of in depth medical things actually can't be found on the internet at all.
2) Trust me, I graduated years ago (though new things are discovered every day), and not every enzyme is a protein. Since you are still a student, you can ask a professor if ALL enzymes are proteins. Like I said, most are, but not all of them.
3) I thought I made it pretty clear as to what one of the enzymes are that aren't actually a protein.
4) They are not the same thing. Glutamine is an enzyme resposible for one thing and L-Glutamine is an amino acid resposible for something else.
01-28-2004, 01:58 PM #28Originally Posted by DBarcelo
01-28-2004, 02:00 PM #29Originally Posted by DBarcelo
01-28-2004, 02:30 PM #30
I ran across this site by accident. It talks about glutamine and L-Glutamine as well as glutamine peptide. It's pretty simple and doesn't go into much detail, but it's pretty clear that there is a difference between L-glutamine and intamuscular glutamine. It also says the same thing that I said about L-glutamine being used to aid digestion and not much of making it ever become the intramuscular form of glutamine.
To answer your question, glutamine is an enzyme that is not a protein.
As far as my last point being silly, you are contradicting yourself. If you insist that glutamine and L-glutamine are the same thing and you also insist that glutamine is a protein/enzyme, you have to make up your mind. L-Glutamine is an amino acid. And as you said so well, anyone who has had an introductory biochemestry class knows that a protein is a string of amino acids, not one individual amino acid. An amino acid is the building block of proteins.
So, you have to either admit that glutamine the enzyme is different from L-Glutamine or you have to admit that Glutamine is an enzyme and not actually a protein, you take your pick, you can't have it both ways. But what I said stands up to both tests of logic.
You can argue this all you want. You are wrong and just confusing people. You can brag about being a bio-chem student all you like. I have never made my argument on this board by boasting my double doctorate. Like I said before, you are in an excelent position to ask a professor if all enzymes are proteins or not.
01-28-2004, 04:42 PM #31Originally Posted by longhornDr
n : any of several complex proteins that are produced by cells and act as catalysts in specific biochemical reactions
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University
i've tried to stay out of this, but i keep coming back to it...everything that i've been taught has gone along with what longhorndr has said..."all enzymes are proteins, but not all proteins are enzymes"
glutamine is an amino acid, not a protein. as was referenced earlier, there is no enzyme called just "glutamine"
here's an article on glutamine synthetase that describes how glutamine synthetase is the enzyme responsible for forming glutamine. there are different forms of glutamine synthetase in the body, but they are all enzymes, all proteins. http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/molecules/pdb30_1.html
and i don't mean this to be inflammatory, but what reaction is the "enzyme" glutamine involved in? if you can reference that, i'll be more apt to look into it and believe...as of now, i don't.
as for your reference of glutamine being used to aid digestion, that is not entirely correct either. glutamine is used by the gut, particularly by the stomach, but it is used as fuel for those cells, not as an aid to digestion.
01-28-2004, 06:13 PM #32Originally Posted by DBarcelo
01-28-2004, 07:02 PM #33Originally Posted by DBarcelo
L-glutamine is to glutamine as a left hand is to hands.
Glutamine synthetase is to glutamine as a donut shop is to donuts.
Just because the word "glutamine" is in the name of an enzyme does not mean that the enzyme is a type of glutamine!
Is a screw driver a type of screw?
Is a donut shop a type of donut?
Is a school bus a type of school?
I hope you are not talking about me bragging about being a biochem student, I am an M.D. and I do research that involves glutamine so I know what I am talking about.
Nobody with 2 doctorates would site a supplement website as a source of information.
01-28-2004, 08:08 PM #34
Like I said before, I graduated years ago and since I'm not really involved in medicine, most of my books are packed in boxes. I'm not going to go through boxes and scan info to make it available just for this, it's not that important. Like I said, I ran into that site by accident. And no I'm an M.D,Ph.D so I have taken biochem but my degree is not in biochem. Medically, my field is renal disfunction.
I honestly don't know what to reference to prove that all enzymes are not proteins without going into one of those books that I would have to find. And the dictionary definition of enzyme isn't enough to prove anything.
I believe I had already said that glutamine synthase is what makes glutamine. I also thought I had written that L-Glutamine's MAIN benefit is in the GI (digestive system). And that can be further isolated to the five carbon amino acid form of L-glutamine.
As far as what glutamine does, it's responsible for a lot of the bodies ability to synthesize proteins. In patients with end stage renal desease, they are unable to use proteins. For example, there body produces growth hormone , but at the same time, the body is not able to use it, because the body can't use the protein. A person with renal failure also has to limit their protein consumption because their body can't do anything with it and it ends up in the blood stream. Glutamine is in the cells and is responsible for the contol of nitrogen. Glutamine synthase enzyme is the controler for the glutamine enzyme, which is in tern the controler for the amount of L-Glutamine and Glut. That may be over simplifying things because there are different types of glutamine such as free form glutamine, glutamine peptides, etc. Some types of glutamine aren't much more than food for the cells when nitrogen levels go too low. The glutamine we're concerned with would be the one enzyme that acts on proteins and allows the body to be able to use them. Its a hydrolase enzyme.
And I agree with Longhorn's analogy even though I don't think you meant for me to. If glutamine were hands, there would be two of them and L-Glutamine would be one of them, but there is another one that isn't quite L=glutamine but very simular. And glutamine synthase is like the donut shop, it makes the donuts, or in this case, glutamine. But what can glutamine synthate break down into? A donut shop can't be broken down into donuts.
01-29-2004, 01:22 PM #35
I'm thinking about teaching, so I've been in contact with some college professors. I decided to ask a few different people about this whole enzyme/protein debate, etc. The people were from different levels, such as a person that teaches undergrad, graduate level and post doctorate level and they cleared up a couple of the problems. Basically they said that you are all right about the fact that people are told that all enzymes are proteins.
The basic reasoning is that there has to be a cutoff point for every level of education. For example, an intermediate school student will be told that there are bones in the body, muscles, organs and may go into the names of the major systems, but there's no need to go any further than that. When you get to high school, you learn about more detailed things like the smaller muscle groups, what the basic organ functions are, the basics of the cell, etc. In undergrad you learn a little more in depth, but there's still no reason to go beyond the old standard of all enzymes are proteins but not all proteins are enzymes. In graduate school you don't really need to go any further than that unless you're degree is in micro biology or some related field. I was told that you don't start getting into that much detail until you go for post doctorate training in certain fields. A couple of decades ago, all known enzymes were proteins and that was the standard all the way up to micro biology specialists. So, like all of you said, anyone who has taken an introductory to bio-chem knows (or is under the impression) that all enzymes are proteins.
Ribozymes, which are basically catalytic RNA molecules, are enzymes. But you are always told that enzymes are two or more amino acids strung together by a peptide bond, and of course a protein is a string of amino acids, so all enzymes would be proteins. However, ribozymes don't contain any amino acids and therefore can't posibly be a protein. And this is another one of those issues that is dependent on how far your training is......people know that there is RNA in the cells, but you're not told about the different types of RNA until you're at the doctorate level.
There is also Ribonuclease P, which is a protein with an RNA molecule bound to it. Those types of enzymes fall inbetween.
As far as the different types of glutamine are concerned, the same rule applies. In undergrad, you are told that there is glutamine just like you're told there is testosterone in the male body, but it's not important at that level to go into any further detail than that. In this case, by the time you reach doctorate level, you should know that there are different types of glutamine as well as different types of testosterone. The average person doesn't know there are different types of glutamine or differnt types of testosterone and they don't care. The difference is so subtle that they are really considered to be the same until you look at the atomic level. The thing with glutamine is that glutamine is in the cells, it's in the blood, it's in the digestive tract and it's in the muscle fibers. All of them are the same on the surface, but they need something in order to get them into their respective environments. For example, the five carbon bond needed for the glutamine that works in the GI tract. Glutamine with a five carbon bond can't make it into the cell membrane and won't attach to the muscle fiber and won't make it in the blood past the kidneys. The body adds the needed chain in order to get the glutamine where it's needed. And each chain is different. The glutamine is essentially the same thing, but they look different looking at the molucular structure. Same goes with testosterone. Theres testosterone that circulates in the blood and theres testosterone that stays in the muscles. Both do the same basic thing and they are basically the same, but they are different because of the molecular bonds.
They also said that there is no need to cycle glutamine because people suppliment L-Glutamine, which is a partial protein or a free form amino acid. Because it's a free form amino acid, so much of it is destroyed in the digestive system and then what does make it, it ends up being converted for use in the GI system, that there isn't enough glutamine to shut down glut production by way of slowing the action of glutamine synthate.
01-29-2004, 01:32 PM #36Originally Posted by DBarcelo
01-29-2004, 02:06 PM #37Originally Posted by Mr. Death
Secondly, a ribozyme is not a "type" of RNA, so having knowledge of ribozymes doesn't mean that you have knowledge of the different types of RNA.
Finally, regarding, "Ribozymes are not true enzymes, they are only a catalyst", enzymes are only catalysts. Enzymes act on other structures to change them from one thing to another.
01-29-2004, 08:14 PM #38Originally Posted by DBarcelo
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