critique my workout.

[ross3814]

i realized today that i must really be doing something wrong in the gym. because i eat like a horse and am small. I try to not overtrain but i think i underdo it a bit. here it goes..

-mon (chest/back)..

(chest)
3 sets flat dumbell press 7-9 reps.
3 sets incline dumbell press 7-9 reps.
3 sets flys 7-9 reps.

(back)
2 sets of pullups 7-9 reps.
3 or 4 sets pulldowns 7-9 reps.
4 sets seated rows 7-9 reps.

-tues (bis/tris)

(bis)
3 sets seated decline dumbell curls 7-9 reps.
3 sets barbell curls 7-9 reps.
3 sets standing hammer curls 7-9 reps.

(tris)
3 sets dip machine 7-9 reps.
3 sets skullcrushers 7-9 reps.
3 sets straight bar cable extensions.

wed. (off)

thurs. (sholders)

4 sets military press 8-10 reps
3 sets lateral raises 10-12 reps
3 sets of this exercise that i don't know the name to but i get a 25lb. dumbell and raise it in front of my body from my waist to my head. 8-11 reps.
4 sets of shrugs 9-11 reps.

fri. (legs)

5 sets squats 8-11reps
4 sets leg extensions 8-11 reps.
3 sets seated calf raises. 13-15reps.

I just want to see what you have to say. good or bad. im actually hoping that im doing something wrong and that is why i have the physique of a sick bird lol. thanks.

[ross3814]

dam... bump i guess

[phreezer]

Too much volume.. and the fact that you are training arms the day after working back and chest will cause you to over train.. You use your triceps A LOT while doing chest..and you use your biceps A LOT while doing back... and flyes are pretty much a waste of time.. You need to back off on the overall volume and reconstruct the way your days follow each other.. Also.. you need to change up the exercises a little.. try to throw in some bentover barbell rows and some dead lifts in there also.. And you don't need to train your arms like that.. if anything..training in the manner you have your routine laid out will more than likely result in shrinkage not size gains..


Maybe something like this...

Mon: Chest/back
Tues: legs
wed: off
Thursday Shoulders
Friday Arms.
Sat-Sun oFf

[Latimus]

add more sets....you do as many sets for bi's as you do for your whole chest...get familiar with your gym....dont be afraid to do 30 sets of back...kill those muscles then recover...then kill them again...take it set by set...so you can get awesome quatity as well as quality...use the bench press barbell...instead of dumbell for mass...hike your legs up

[phreezer]

add more sets....you do as many sets for bi's as you do for your whole chest...get familiar with your gym....dont be afraid to do 30 sets of back...kill those muscles then recover...then kill them again...take it set by set...so you can get awesome quatity as well as quality...use the bench press barbell...instead of dumbell for mass...hike your legs up

This is one of the dumbest replies I've seen.... I would not advise listening to this guy...Don't be afraid to do 30 sets?... That's just stupid.... You need to think before you post.. all you're going to do is cause him to overtrain..

Latimus, I'm fairly certain that if you train like you advise, you will never be mistaken for a body builder.. and you DO NOT do as many sets for smaller muscle groups as you do for larger ones..

[Latimus]

Hey Freezer.... CHILL!
First of all you made my point for me...DO NOT DO AS MANY ARMS AS CHEST...but the fact is, is that this guy does. I was saying not to do that, and pointing out that he does. 25-30 sets of chest, back, legs is what it takes to destroy the muscles...IN MY OPPINION...you see its my advice, so dont fame it. Some people can train for an hour and 20 mins....some cant...you cant, thats you...But to tell me that someone can grow on 5 sets of quats, and a few leg extentions...10 sets of back, 9 of chest....give me a break.

Dont be that guy, that guy who flames and no one likes...ya that guy...i mean i could have said something like...Freezer really helped ya out there by saying workout less, and only change your arm workout (surely thats the only problem) that will help ya out a lot...but i didnt because im not a flamer...

[phreezer]

You are an idiot and you obviously know nothing about training.... I don't feel the need to banter with you or trade insults.... To prove my point .. Go look in the mirror... that is reason enough why you should never offer training advice to anyone.

[Latimus]

BAD ADVICE...

telling someone that they need to do more then 5 squats...inorder to call it a leg workout is bad advice? ...more then 9 sets of chest is bad advice? ...freezer thinks i ment do 30 sets of bis because he couldnt read it properly...do you not to 25 sets of chest...like what do you guys doing...are you telling me that you dont do 25 sets of back and 15 sets of arms...Bottom line...its my advice, it works for me, it works for great bodybuilders....on the other hand...some people dont like doing very many sets...this kid isnt responding to low amounts of sets so i said do more...is that such bad advice...come on you 2 quit being flamers

[Powrlftr]

I think he needs to tell us how long he has been training like this, and what his goals are.

There's alot of things wrong with that workout he posted. I don't like the sheer volume of it, and he is doing too many bs exercises. I think the rep ranges he posted suck, and I think he should cut down the number of exercises and increase the number of sets on the basics. Like you guys pointed out, the split is all wrong. Do close grip bench presses for your tri's and then one other exercise. Lose the flys, and pyramid up to sets of 3 for the bench. Do pull ups and lose the pulldowns, and increase the number of sets. If you need to do weighted pull ups. You can do your shoulders, bi's and tri's on the same day, and on day 2 do deadlifts. Do your squats heavy and pyramid up to your working weight then do 4x3.

I looked at your profile and I would recommend a low volume, heavy weight program with 3-5 min rest times. Eat like a pig and you should put on weight and gain strength.
When you get a good strength base then you can add volume and/or intensity.

[Latimus]

looks like a good routine for you there ross ...by whitey...only missing shoulders..you could put that as friday...maybe something like this
5 dumbell press
5 lateral raises (when you raise your arms after the 5 sets make sure you can feel it)
Lateral raises are important in that they give you a wider look...you dont want to be disproptionate in anyway..
5 cable pull ups
5 dumbell or machine traps

to add to the leg workout add calves at the end...or preferably do them every other day.....they are pain to do but when your arms start growing you dont want them "leggin" below..haha

By the way you probably are growing its just hard to tell sometimes...make sure you are constently changing your routine...sets, reps, excersises...it helps to blast through plateaus...are you sure you are "eating like a horse" go to the diet forum for good tips...because if you are eating 4000 cals plus you should be growing no matter what...good luck bro

*Just an example of changing things up...do your 4 sets of chest...but slow down then fast up...or do heavy sets of 4-6 reps...light sets of 8-10...incline in weight, decline in weight...pyramid...do your 4 sets then do another set only negatives..get a spoter to pull the weight up for you...or do really light weight at the end really slow or fast...this is just an example of changing bench...the possibilities are endless...no workout should be the same....maybe thats the problem!

[DARKSEID]

But to tell me that someone can grow on 5 sets of quats, and a few leg extentions...10 sets of back, 9 of chest....give me a break.

I would beg to differ on this point. I do less sets than that, and have no problem at all growing. It's true some people respond better to more sets, but I've gotten my best growth from very few but extremely intense sets.

[Latimus]

awesome

[ross3814]

wow guys. gota a little heated in here, but i really appreciate the advise. im sorry that i haven't been able to respond but my computer got a virus and was trashed for a lil while so i havn't been on in a while. im gonna read this a little closer then ask some more questions.

[ross3814]

ya guys i guess i was undertraining a little bit.. i really appreciate the advise on changing my split and such.. ill change it right away.. latissimus.. lateral raises to to the front or to the side?

[Latimus]

out to the side, little bend at the elbow but not much...angle the front of the weight down a bit too...that targets the side delt perfectly...you can change from dumbells, to cable, to machine (if your gym has one)...They grow a little slower then traps so make sure you stay on them...or you will look rounded at the shoulders.

[Jock191]

Im not trying to flame any one but seriously 30 sets??? Think of it like this your gonna honeslty sit there and tell me that your gonna do something like this for chest?

Bench press 10 sets
Incline Bench press 10 sets
Flys 10 sets

Honelsty think about what your saying.. Thats alittle thing that I like to call over training.. Now that I think about it I had a personal trainer like you when I was younger we did bis and I couldnt move my **** arms for 2 weeks... I dont care who you are you will not need to do 30 sets for your large muscle groups.

[Latimus]

its hot in here...i was stressin the point that this guy is undertraining...but ya i do 25 sets for chest...and it works for me...i will keep this to myself from now on though...

and its 5 Bar, 5 DB, 5 incline, 5 dips, 5flys...for your info...

[ross3814]

latissimus.. are you a mesomorph?

[Jock191]

Hey lat can I ask you why you do BB bench and then DB press??? I mean your basically doing 10 sets right there of the same exercise..

[ross3814]

I think he needs to tell us how long he has been training like this, and what his goals are.

There's alot of things wrong with that workout he posted. I don't like the sheer volume of it, and he is doing too many bs exercises. I think the rep ranges he posted suck, and I think he should cut down the number of exercises and increase the number of sets on the basics. Like you guys pointed out, the split is all wrong. Do close grip bench presses for your tri's and then one other exercise. Lose the flys, and pyramid up to sets of 3 for the bench. Do pull ups and lose the pulldowns, and increase the number of sets. If you need to do weighted pull ups. You can do your shoulders, bi's and tri's on the same day, and on day 2 do deadlifts. Do your squats heavy and pyramid up to your working weight then do 4x3.

I looked at your profile and I would recommend a low volume, heavy weight program with 3-5 min rest times. Eat like a pig and you should put on weight and gain strength.
When you get a good strength base then you can add volume and/or intensity.

what are the bullsh*t excercises? i want to know so i don't do them anymore.

[PoPpaPaQ]

wow everyones gotta relax.. lat's post was misread completely, everyones gotta relax and remmeber why we're here...

Ross: i think you just need to either add another exercise to your workouts or increase them by a few sets, try hitting 8-10 reps, and stay with basic compound movements, dont try to get too fancy until you gain some mass.

eg: squats for legs, deadlifts for back, barbell curls and dips for arms, military presses for shoulders etc etc

[ross3814]

you guys don't like dumbell chest press? i thought it was better because it focuses more on control. tell me if dumbells suck cause ill jus go to the barbell

[PoPpaPaQ]

do a combo of both, i like using barbell for flat bench press, but i like dumbells for incline...

[Latimus]

Hey lat can I ask you why you do BB bench and then DB press??? I mean your basically doing 10 sets right there of the same exercise..

I do it because it makes me small and i like overtraining and not growing...are you happy...is everyone happy now?

i can bench 315 for a few reps...I am 20, I have been doing high sets for my BB career...I will do bar low reps and then dumbell highreps to cover both angles....I have done the 12 sets for chest, i get a good pump, but i want a great pump...i understand that 12 sets works for a lot of people..however if someone is plateauing at a low amount of sets then its good to shock them by doings something different...in a forum different points of view are incouraged. You dont have to agree with it...You have the ability to disagree with someone by adding your POINT... if it is in contrast then you are disagreeing...There is no need for attacts...Deadlifting 500 is enough without all you on my back!haha

its gettin old...

[Latimus]

what about shrugs?
do 4-5 sets of DB, Bar, or machine...

[jbigdog69]

here ya go dog...peace

http://www.building-muscle101.com/index.html

[ross3814]

ok so you guys said that i shouldnt do the same # of sets for small muscle groups as large ones.. so should i be doing more sets for the larger muscle groups or less sets for the smaller groups?

[ross3814]

cool, thanks bro.

[Latimus]

Not a bad program however...start back with wide grip chins...if you want a wide back this is the greatest ex of all...they are hard to do later on in the workout so do them right off the bat...

that program has him doing as many sets for bis as chest...so change that...either more chest or less arms...i think you know what my oppinion is haha...skull crushers can damage the elbows...try it out see if its ok...once i got up to 160 i couldnt do it anymore without damage...you should be able to do it ok now..but when you get stronger your tendons wont be able to...also for tris do close grip, partial reps i like the best...the lower you go down the more chest is getting involved and depending on your workout that is not always wanted.

[Powrlftr]

what are the bullsh*t excercises? i want to know so i don't do them anymore.

I see a lot of guys doing cable crossovers when they obviously need to pack on about 50 lbs of mass, not try to get striations in underdeveloped pecs. There's no need to do flies, concentrated on the compound movements like squat, flat bench, and deadlift, then add the shaping exercises when you think you are ready.

Stay away from most machines, except for legs, they just end up injuring you.

Focus on the compound moves, and at least keep your massbuilding sets down to 4-6 reps. Every few weeks you should go all out and max.

[Latimus]

or you could do flies...its up to you...i like them because after all the presses...they really help to finish it off...and it works the muscle differently...but powerlifter makes a good point.

[ross3814]

so you think i should just do more sets of the bench and cut the flys?

[Sorken]

Don't flame bro's.. chill out...

[Latimus]

i would keep them

[ross3814]

o.k. how about the revision

-mon (chest&back)

chest
7 sets incline bench press
7 sets flat bench press

back
4 sets wide grip pullups
4 sets seated wide grip pullbacks
4 sets deadlifts

-tues. (legs)

6 sets squats
4 sets leg press
5 sets leg extentions
4 sets calf raises

wed (rest)

-thurs. (arms)

bis

5 sets barbell curls
5 sets hammer curls

tris

4 sets close grip bench..
4 sets skullcrushers
2 sets rope pulldowns.

-fri (sholders)

5 sets military press
5 sets lateral raises
5 sets reverse pec deck.
5 sets shrugs.

im thinking about throwing a few sets of dips in on my chest day. what do you think?
if i do, should i cut out a couple of sets on the bench or just add them on?

[ross3814]

just edited legs bro. you got an aol IM yet whitey?

[ross3814]

bump

[wannalearn]

oh, were do it begin.......the "more is better" slogan that runs rampant in this day in age, i believe, has led a lot of trainees to disappointing results. not to flame, latimus, but if 9 sets doesn't work for chest, more is not need. "less is more" and anyone that cares to disagree, think about this (qouted from Iron Addict from Animal's board) "what if instead of doing so much you never grow, those 3-4 exercises per body-part to ensure 'complete development' of all 'aspects' of a muscle. What if all you did was:
Squat 400x20
Stiff-legged deadlift 375x15
Bench Press 315x12
Pull-Up with 100lbs extra weight x12
Military Press Body-Weight x10
Calf-Raise 700x15
Weighted Sit-Up 175x12

How much bigger would you be than you are now, and what muscle would be underdeveloped?!?!?!?!" So, ross, my advice to you is to get stronger in the basic exercises while having your rest/diet in check. Keep a log-book and just simply keep trying to add weight to the bar while maintaining good form. Plan for periods of rest, ie. reduced frequency, volume, load, adhering to a dual-factor type plan. So, use this at your discretion, i just thought i should put it out there, as phreezer already has, that more is not always better.