Time to face the facts...I'll never be in the shape I want to be in..

[El Diablo]

I've always been the fat guy...And i've been happy with the improvements i've made....but still, i'm not happy with the way i look...and probably never will be.

I entered my gym at 23% bf, after a year i was down to about 14% bf...That's what i'm at as of now...I've always wanted to have those insane abs; they always look nice to have...I feel like i can never get there. Yeah, i know you have to be under 12% for them to show...but I feel like it's impossible for me to get there...I'm cutting now, lost a few pounds...i just feel depressed....i'm never gonna be in the shape i wanna be in...it's probably in my genes to be in this shape...

[El Diablo]

I feel like no matter how low of a bf i get i wont have them...and i feel like im stuck at 14% too..

[Long&Strong]

what are you doing to cut??? any cycles or eca stacks?

[El Diablo]

Cardio in the morning, and im thinking about doing p.m cardio as well...maybe their is some hope. Staying away from gear right now...but i'm taking Xenadrine NRG, which is working ok i guess...Gives a big jolt of energy..

[Shredz]

Well first off you need to get a positive attitude towards it all. Take a step back and look at the results you have obtained thus far. Those are pretty respectable bro. Don't sell yourself short.

If I can lend any word of advice to getting abs it is you have to make a life style change. You have to start eating clean. Get your diet critiqued, and hit that cardio.

Genes sure do have something to do with it. But if you have managed to get yourself down to 14% there shouldn't be anything genetic that is holding you back. Post your current diet (and be honest) and your workout split including cardio and we will all take a look at it for yeah.

[El Diablo]

Diet

6:00 a.m Cardio 45 minutes on an empty stomach with Xenadrine NRG

6:50 Post workout shake + 2000mg flax seed oil. (capsules)

11:00 2 cans tuna (or some good lean turkey)

3:45 2 cans tuna 1/4 cup brown rice

Train at 4:30-5:30/6:00

5:30-6:00Postworkout meal 2 scoops protein and half a powerade/gatorade

7:00 p.m Chicken , tuna, or steak
some kinda veggie, or rice (1/2 cup)

10:00 p.m. tuna / chicken with flax, or protein shake with flax.

Doing the doggcrap routine for training...

[Shredz]

How long have you been dieting. That is a little to low for carbs even if trying to get ripped if you have been only doing it for a short time. That is a hell of a lot of tuna. You can also get lean cuts of beef like flank or eye of round steak, as well as chicken and eggs to substitute for some of the tuna.

You lay out for meals is good just have to change the quantities.

[El Diablo]

about 4 weeks....f ucked up a couple times though...So i'm pretty sure it's set me back...So you might as well say two weeks..

[El Diablo]

I'm sorry...I dont wanna sound like a whiner...But when you've been made fun of your entire life, and when you know youve made progress and people still make fun of you, its hard to keep your spirit up...I guess I just have this mental barrier making me think it isnt possible....

[mfenske]

El Diablo I'm sorry...I dont wanna sound like a whiner...But when you've been made fun of your entire life, and when you know youve made progress and people still make fun of you, its hard to keep your spirit up...I guess I just have this mental barrier making me think it isnt possible....

I can relate to this. I was a fat kid (well from 13-22 at least) and I was often made fun of because of my weight. I too, like you, have managed to lose weight. At first my peer group questioned my motives and gave me crap about it. Now three years later I'm in the best shape of my life and having a blast. My friends are all heavier and not too many of them are super happy. I'm at maybe 17-18% bodyfat (down from nearly 35%) and I know I'll get to my goal of about 12%. It's obvious that you are mentally a strong person. Persevere, you wil make it. If you don't think you can that's what all of us here at AR are for. Mark

[El Diablo]

I can relate to this. I was a fat kid (well from 13-22 at least) and I was often made fun of because of my weight. I too, like you, have managed to lose weight. At first my peer group questioned my motives and gave me crap about it. Now three years later I'm in the best shape of my life and having a blast. My friends are all heavier and not too many of them are super happy. I'm at maybe 17-18% bodyfat (down from nearly 35%) and I know I'll get to my goal of about 12%. It's obvious that you are mentally a strong person. Persevere, you wil make it. If you don't think you can that's what all of us here at AR are for. Mark

Thanks man...Congrats on your advances..I guess I just have this mental barrier making me think it isn't possible to get lean...and i still believe it...i just sat here and said to myself earlier, "Just go back to being the fat kid playing video games and eating whatever the **** you want."....I cant do it. I can't do that to myself...I dont want to do that to myself....but i dont want to keep working and getting no results...it's my biggest fear i guess....

[phreezer]

Well, I hate to be a party pooper but if you're at a true 14% bf you should be able to see your top two abs very easily... probably can make out the next set below them....

15% you should be able to see your top two abs...10-12% you should be able to see all of your abs...8% is competetive level.. and around 6% is absolutely shredded.. a lot of people think that their BF% is lower than it really is..but the truth is..if you can't see your top two abs when you raise your shirt... your above 15%

[nj123]

dont worry hoss... keep up the hard work

[Superhuman]

I looked at your diet. Everything looks good, but you're only meal for the morning is that shake, and then the tuna at 11. I read that digestion takes more energy and burns more calories than anything else you do on a daily basis, with the exception of good cardio. It would be wise of you to eat more than 5 meals a day, but make them really small. If you find yourself hungry in between meals, eat some fruit.

About you being fat your whole life... I'm the opposite. I was always the skinny kid. I was always taller than everyone else, but I was super skinny. People use to make fun of me all the time in 8th grade an 9th grade. Football players would walk behind me in halls and say "hey faggot, skinny ass faggot". I'm definately not gay, but all that crap every single day got to me. I decided to turn my life around. I moved to a different school, started lifting weights and eating right. I went from 6'1" 149lbs freshman year to 6'3 245lbs junior year with about 10 or 11% BF. I started playing football and earned respect. Instead of making fun of me, now everybody says "You're huge", and people always ask me for advice on how to stay in shape and get big. It's all in the mind bro. I still have a crappy self image because of bein made fun of all the time. People say i'm big, but I look in the mirror and I see nothing... I see the old srawny kid I was. You and me both need to get over that. It's amazing how far you've come already... keep working and you'll look back later in amzement. KEEP AT IT BRO!

[decadbal]

man, you need to find what u like about yourself and worry about that and your looks 2nd, alot of ppl will be a ass to you, jealousy mainly, so ignore em, and get your workouts and diet going and get to where you want, knowledge is power, the more you know, the more u can do, and when it comes to losing BF, knowledge is all you need, the will is there, just dont let stupid ppl get to you. 99% of the world is assholes, so dont be one of them or listen to em

[Danielle]

a lot of people think that their BF% is lower than it really is.....

amen........thank you........14% body fat is amazing..............you said you "were made fun of".........because of what?....your weight?..........even at 23% when you started, still isnt fat..........

[El Diablo]

Thank s very much for the replies everyone.

NJ whos hos?

[El Diablo]

Well, I hate to be a party pooper but if you're at a true 14% bf you should be able to see your top two abs very easily... probably can make out the next set below them....

15% you should be able to see your top two abs...10-12% you should be able to see all of your abs...8% is competetive level.. and around 6% is absolutely shredded.. a lot of people think that their BF% is lower than it really is..but the truth is..if you can't see your top two abs when you raise your shirt... your above 15%

I can slightly see my top two coming in, my goal is about 10%....5-6% woulde be incrediblle however. Anyone gotten that low?

[El Diablo]

I looked at your diet. Everything looks good, but you're only meal for the morning is that shake, and then the tuna at 11. I read that digestion takes more energy and burns more calories than anything else you do on a daily basis, with the exception of good cardio. It would be wise of you to eat more than 5 meals a day, but make them really small. If you find yourself hungry in between meals, eat some fruit.

About you being fat your whole life... I'm the opposite. I was always the skinny kid. I was always taller than everyone else, but I was super skinny. People use to make fun of me all the time in 8th grade an 9th grade. Football players would walk behind me in halls and say "hey faggot, skinny ass faggot". I'm definately not gay, but all that crap every single day got to me. I decided to turn my life around. I moved to a different school, started lifting weights and eating right. I went from 6'1" 149lbs freshman year to 6'3 245lbs junior year with about 10 or 11% BF. I started playing football and earned respect. Instead of making fun of me, now everybody says "You're huge", and people always ask me for advice on how to stay in shape and get big. It's all in the mind bro. I still have a crappy self image because of bein made fun of all the time. People say i'm big, but I look in the mirror and I see nothing... I see the old srawny kid I was. You and me both need to get over that. It's amazing how far you've come already... keep working and you'll look back later in amzement. KEEP AT IT BRO!

Childhood friends ive known have seen a difference. And over time people at my college have as well. Glad to hear of your transformation.

[Jock191]

Ok bro check this out... I was doing alittle reading and I just happend to come across this... I was not only the fat kid from when I was little but until soph. yr of HS.. I weighed 275 lbs my soph yr and I just got PISSED off with all the kids making fun of me and of all the fights I got into.. I kicked the crap out of alot of kids but was it worth it? Nope still was the fat kid.. I lost 85 lbs my soph yr I went down to 195 then 190 while on the wrestling team.... So I know what you are going through.. Now Im only 5'8 so think about it 5'8 at 275 I was a FAT Fuking kid.. But ne ways.. You need to keep your head up if you did it once you can do it again.. Im facing the same thing ALLL Over again.. I was injured while playing hs Lacrosse SR. yr and went from 190 to 213 b/c or a Torn ACL.. Then I joined the Marines went from 213 to 170 Lost alot of muscle to b/c of how you had to eat if you were a diet recurit.. THEN I re-injuried my Fking ACL again and now I went from 170 to 246 in about 7 months.. So I'm almost right back where I started... But hey try this Stick with your cardio in the morning.. Try to burn 1000 cal. a Day.. Do like 30 in the morning or burn 500 cal. First thing like your already doing.. Then come home eat your food work out mid afternoon or early evening like 4 or something THEN later at night after your last meal burn another 500 cal. with more cardio.. Also try this type of diet. Its called Carb. Cycling or something like a zig zag diet or high low which is where you eat a low carb for 3 days and on the 4th say do a high day or carbs Regardless of what you name it, "carbohydrate cycling is probably the most powerful fat burning strategy on the planet. Nothing else even comes close. It is the ONLY guaranteed way to outwit the body’s starvation response when calories and carbohydrates are low. Not only do you avoid a negative response, but you also invoke many positive responses that do not occur when holding your carbohydrates and calories at the same low level day in and day out. That’s the main problem with conventional low carbohydrate diets – they suggest that you drop your carbohydrates and keep them low. What I am suggesting is that you drop your carbohydrates for a few days, then increase them again before your body figures out what the heck is going on! Carbohydrate cycling has been a well-kept secret of bodybuilders and fitness models for decades, but anyone can use it to accelerate fat loss or break a plateau. The beauty of this method is that it allows you to get all the fat loss benefits of low carbohydrate dieting without the low carbohydrate side effects. Most important, it keeps your metabolism elevated and prevents you from going into starvation mode.

Why you shouldn’t stay on low carbohydrates for more than three days in a row
After three days in a row on low carbohydrates, your glycogen levels will be
almost completely depleted. If you were to continue on low carbohydrates for a fourth
day, fifth day, or beyond, you would notice your energy and training intensity begin to
diminish. You would also notice that your muscles would “flatten out” and become
softer. Your metabolic rate would begin to slow down and your thyroid gland would
decrease its output of thyroid hormone. Basically, your diet would become less and less
effective the longer you stayed on low carbohydrates beyond the three day period. Your body is so “smart,” it simply makes changes in physiology and metabolism to compensate for the prolonged lack of carbohydrates (which it interprets as starvation). That’s why you have to “shake things up” and keep your body off guard by throwing in a high carbohydrate day every fourth day.High days and Low Days

Carbohydrate cycling is based on the concept of rotating low carbohydrate days
with high carbohydrate days instead of keeping carbohydrates low all the time. Every
fourth day your glycogen levels are restored with a “carb load” or “high carb day” (also
known as “high day”). Your energy stays up, your muscles fill out and tighten and your
metabolic rate gets a boost as if you squirted lighter fluid on a dwindling fire.
The high day also makes your entire diet easier to stick with because no matter
how difficult it is to get through those three low days, you have a “high day” to look
forward to. The “high day” also bypasses all the side effects. You get noticeably leaner with every three-day low carbohydrate cycle as your body dips deeply into stored body fat without the carbohydrates readily available for fuel."

Now an example of one of these diets would be something like this
Sample low carbohydrate menu
Meal 1 – 7:00 am: oatmeal, 2 scoops whey protein
Meal 2 – 9:30 am: oatmeal, egg white omelet with pepper, onion, tomato
Meal 3 – 12:30 pm: small serving brown rice, top round steak, broccoli
Meal 4 – 3:30 pm: Chicken breast, green beans, 1 tbsp flax oil
Meal 5 – 6:00 pm: Salmon, asparagus
Meal 6 – 8:30 pm: mixed green salad, olive oil & vinegar dressing, tuna fish

Also notice that this diet tapers your carbs so your only eating starchy carbs in the first 3 meals.. So you would do that for 3 days then the 4th day would be something like this
Meal 1: Lean Protein, Starchy Carb, Simple carb (dairy or fruit)
Meal 2: Lean Protein, Starchy Carb, Simple carb (dairy or fruit)
Meal 3: Lean Protein, Starchy Carb, Fibrous carb (vegetable/salad)
Meal 4: Lean Protein, Starchy Carb, Fibrous carb (vegetable/salad)
Meal 5: Lean Protein, Starchy Carb, Fibrous carb (vegetable/salad)
Meal 6: Lean Protein, Starchy Carb (small serving), Fibrous carb (vegetable/salad), essential fat

On your 4th day you can eat strachy carbs with every meal.

Of course this is just a guide line and should be fine tuned another exaple of just calories would be like this
Men/2200 calories/3 days low carbs: Men/2700 calories/1 day high carbs
Protein 45% = 990 calories = 247 g Protein 30% = 810 calories = 202 g
Carbs 30% = 660 calories = 165 g Carbs 50% = 1350 calories = 337 g
Fats 25% = 550 calories = 61 g Fats 20% = 540 calories = 60 g


ALSO DRINK ALOT OF WATER and bro I mean alot I drink maybe 2 gallons of water a day yeah your gonna piss alot but its good for you to.

[El Diablo]

Jock:

Thanks a ton for your advice and diet information. I'll be sure to try it out, nothing to lose and I like the way it sounds. I'm drinking about 2 gallons of water a day as well...Helps absorb protein better Glad to hear you've been making progress...I wasn't as big as you, and I would start fights too...Made you feel better for awhile til you face the fact: I'm still the fat kid. :-/ Once again , thank you for your helpful advice and telling me your story, hopefully I can get down low enough where my abs finally show up nice and well. Congrats on your transformation bro,

--Diablo.

[Jock191]

How about this ill keep you posted on my progress and you keep me posted with yours.

[saboudian]

Actually I use almost the same thing that Jock posted except my 3 low carb days are trace carbs/fibrous veggies only, usually under 15g. It works extremely well and I am also an endomorph.

I would up the morning cardio to 45-60 min, on leg days I wouldn't do any cardio.

If you do happen to use something similar to Jock's low carb day, I would suggest putting some fat in meals 1 & 2. Meal one you could simply fix it by adding some flax seed oil, and meal 2 I would just add 1-2 yolks.

For the High carb day, I still don't like using simple carbs unless it would be PWO shake. I keep all my carbs complex, and I try to eat my protein in before i eat my carbs. I usually don't mess with dairy at all while dieting (usually bulking too). I also don't eat carbs at my last meal.

Well, I'm being a little picky, but thats pretty much how I modified it to fit myself. I would definitely up the empty stomach morning cardio. If you start out with Jock's sample you should be fine, but if you get 'stuck' i would move towards my version. The most frustrating part of dieting is when u get stuck and have no idea where to go, sacrifice all these things and your bf stays constant, which is where most ppl give up, which it sounds like you did for a few weeks, which is alright because you got it over with and are now back on track with an idea in mind.

[El Diablo]

How about this ill keep you posted on my progress and you keep me posted with yours.

Sounds like a good plan, we could help each other out that way.

[El Diablo]

Actually I use almost the same thing that Jock posted except my 3 low carb days are trace carbs/fibrous veggies only, usually under 15g. It works extremely well and I am also an endomorph.

I would up the morning cardio to 45-60 min, on leg days I wouldn't do any cardio.

If you do happen to use something similar to Jock's low carb day, I would suggest putting some fat in meals 1 & 2. Meal one you could simply fix it by adding some flax seed oil, and meal 2 I would just add 1-2 yolks.

For the High carb day, I still don't like using simple carbs unless it would be PWO shake. I keep all my carbs complex, and I try to eat my protein in before i eat my carbs. I usually don't mess with dairy at all while dieting (usually bulking too). I also don't eat carbs at my last meal.

Well, I'm being a little picky, but thats pretty much how I modified it to fit myself. I would definitely up the empty stomach morning cardio. If you start out with Jock's sample you should be fine, but if you get 'stuck' i would move towards my version. The most frustrating part of dieting is when u get stuck and have no idea where to go, sacrifice all these things and your bf stays constant, which is where most ppl give up, which it sounds like you did for a few weeks, which is alright because you got it over with and are now back on track with an idea in mind.

Ahh bro I didnt give up...I was just dissapointed in not getting many results lol

[pjflynn]

Good luck with everything, I was also the fat kid in high school around 25% bodyfat. In about tenth grade i just got tired of it and since then i've leaned out to about 6% bodyfat. You really have to realize that there are no miracle workers out there, and that it's going to take some time. I dropped 19% over four or five years. You said before that you had only been dieting for one month. Stay focused and determined and i'm sure you'll reach all of your goals.

[Symian]

Don't worry, bro. It'll happen with hard work. I was in the same boat as I was kinda tubby in high school, too. Military changed that, but even then it was really the goals that I set for myself. Sometimes I'll get discouraged when I loose site of my goals, and why the hell I'm actually putting myself through all this crap. Just keep sight of your goals and use them as your motivation.

Also try switching things up or adding new things into your routine. I HATE cardio, but I just started swimming laps at my YMCA, and I love it! Now everytime I go I'm excited to see how many laps I can get through before drowning in the shallow end. J/K

Hope this helps.

Sym