Test levels

**Venom** · 11-18-2013, 01:29 PM

Hey everyone I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask about appropriate test levels, if not I will ask admin to move it to the appropriate place. I'm curious if my testosterone levels seem low for my age, I'm currently 27 and weigh 170lbs. As I have read through many threads on various forums I have noticed men who claim to be natural and also a lot older then me seem to have higher test levels then myself.

The past two physicals I requested to have my test levels checked.

8\22\2012 9:27am (25 years old)

Total testosterone 405 ng/dl
-Ref. Range 250-1100

Free testosterone 112.6 pg/ml
-Ref. Range 35.0-155.0

11/4/2013 9:48am (27 years old)

Total testosterone 363 ng/dl
Ref. Range- 249-836

Sex hormone binding globulin 21 nmol/l
Ref. Range- 10-50

Free Testosterone 86.2 pg/ml
Ref. Range- 46.0- 224.0

The latest physical I really stressed the issue to my doctor because lately I have been constantly lethargic, sore joints, just not like myself or how I presume a 27 year old should feel. I do have a sex drive still but it comes and goes, a couple weeks can go by and I don't really think about sex or get aroused easily. My doctor stated I am in the normal test range so he doesn't feel any sort of treatment is necessary. From reading around I have noticed if your E2 levels are too high or too low it can result in some of the symptoms I stated above. I asked my doctor if I can have those levels check but he said they typically don't check them and insurance wouldn't cover it.

I'm just curious on feed back from you guys if those numbers seem normal for a 27 year old male. I'm sure there are other factors involved other then just test levels so if you need any other numbers from my blood test just let me know.

Thanks a lot!

**kelkel** · 11-18-2013, 01:32 PM

Can you edit and add ranges to your levels please.
Yes, your total T appears low.
Edit and we'll talk more.

**Venom** · 11-18-2013, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Can you edit and add ranges to your levels please. Yes, your total T appears low. Edit and we'll talk more.

Thanks Kelkel, I'm assuming you mean the reference range, I just edited those in. If you are referring to another type of range I apologize I don't understand what you are referring to and if you can please explain further.

**Venom** · 11-19-2013, 04:51 PM

Bump for more opinions please and thank you

**kelkel** · 11-19-2013, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

Hey everyone I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask about appropriate test levels, if not I will ask admin to move it to the appropriate place. I'm curious if my testosterone levels seem low for my age, I'm currently 27 and weigh 170lbs. As I have read through many threads on various forums I have noticed men who claim to be natural and also a lot older then me seem to have higher test levels then myself.

The past two physicals I requested to have my test levels checked.

8\22\2012 9:27am (25 years old)

Total testosterone 405 ng/dl Low but workable
-Ref. Range 250-1100

Free testosterone 112.6 pg/ml Not bad here
-Ref. Range 35.0-155.0

11/4/2013 9:48am (27 years old)

Total testosterone 363 ng/dl Not really a big drop from before. Remember it's a snapshot in time
Ref. Range- 249-836

Sex hormone binding globulin 21 nmol/l As expected. Will change as T or E rise.
Ref. Range- 10-50

Free Testosterone 86.2 pg/ml Low imho.
Ref. Range- 46.0- 224.0

The latest physical I really stressed the issue to my doctor because lately I have been constantly lethargic, sore joints, just not like myself or how I presume a 27 year old should feel. I do have a sex drive still but it comes and goes, a couple weeks can go by and I don't really think about sex or get aroused easily. My doctor stated I am in the normal test range so he doesn't feel any sort of treatment is necessary. From reading around I have noticed if your E2 levels are too high or too low it can result in some of the symptoms I stated above. I asked my doctor if I can have those levels check but he said they typically don't check them and insurance wouldn't cover it. Correct on E2. No reason why your insurance would not cover it. Sounds like your doc really doesn't understand it. Consider ************* if needed.

I'm just curious on feed back from you guys if those numbers seem normal for a 27 year old male. I'm sure there are other factors involved other then just test levels so if you need any other numbers from my blood test just let me know.

Thanks a lot!

IMHO you are low and should be doing what you can to find out why. Your doc should be helping you based on your symptoms presented, not your numbers. I hate when I hear this. You are not a number.

Do you have more BW or is that it? I ask as many things can cause low T and without full BW we're throwing darts. It could be hypothyroidism, cortisol issues, life style, medications or even a pathology or testicular issue. Having full BW will help determine where to look. Example, if your LH/FSH is high and your T is low it's possible you are primary hypo which means a testicular issue. If LH/FSH is low then the issue may be pituitary related. In the Finding A Doc Sticky in the HRT Forum is an example of blood work to get.

**Venom** · 01-28-2014, 03:57 PM

Bumping this for KelKel.

Thanks for the information you provided me above, I really appreciate it.

I set up an appointment with a local endocrinologist on Feb 4th.

Any questions I should ask or anything specific topics I should discuss with the doctor?

Any threads here on the forum you can suggest reading when dealing with meeting a new Endo?

Also any websites you can recommend that may contain reviews of endocrinologist? I tried googling the doctor I'm seeing but there was not much on her.

I feel with something as intricate as someone's test levels, the doctors opinion can make or break your situation. One doctor may brush off your levels while the next one may see the seriousness in the issue. I just fear I won't end up with a qualified doctor and get discourage by the whole situation.

**Venom** · 02-04-2014, 07:21 AM

Bumping for advice on my appointment today

**kelkel** · 02-04-2014, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Venom

Bumping this for KelKel.

Thanks for the information you provided me above, I really appreciate it.

I set up an appointment with a local endocrinologist on Feb 4th.

Any questions I should ask or anything specific topics I should discuss with the doctor?
Just that you want to find out WHY you're low and correct it. Don't settle for you're low, here's your androgel. Write down any questions you have so you don't forget. "If it comes to you needing TRT will he prescribe HCG and an AI if needed? If not, meeting's over already. It's why I suggest calling their office first and interviewing one of the nurses first. They'll usually let you know. Or, contact a local compounding pharmacy or your local pharmacy and ask what doc's treat with all 3 (test-hcg-ai)

Any threads here on the forum you can suggest reading when dealing with meeting a new Endo?
None come to mind. Just be upfront. Make him aware you are self-education and want to be an equal partner in treatment.

Also any websites you can recommend that may contain reviews of endocrinologist? I tried googling the doctor I'm seeing but there was not much on her.
Don't know. Use google. The title Endo does not mean they know TRT. Title doesn't matter, they just need to understand hormones.

I feel with something as intricate as someone's test levels, the doctors opinion can make or break your situation. One doctor may brush off your levels while the next one may see the seriousness in the issue. I just fear I won't end up with a qualified doctor and get discourage by the whole situation.

Don't settle. Be happy with your doc or move on. It's your health and you are in charge of it. You both need to have a similar philosophy.

**Venom** · 02-04-2014, 05:36 PM

Thanks kelkel

I just got back from seeing the Endo. She was very nice and really informative (very attractive to add). I explained to her the whole back story. Two years ago (age 25) when I was young, dumb, and misinformed my local supplement owner sold me superdrol in which I did a two month cycle without any PCT (again I know I was dumb for doing that). About 3 weeks after my cycle my nipples became extremely sore and sensitive where I then panicked and scheduled an appointment with my primary physician.

After explaining to him exactly what superdrol was he proceeded to make fun of the name and tell me I can achieve muscle by eating and exercising and sent me on my way. I was really bother by his lack of concern and failure of sending me for blood work. A month later I had my routine physical where I requested to have my test levels checked where you see above my first test level results.

I didn't pay much attention to them until about a year and a half later (this past November) when I scheduled another physical and asked to have my test levels checked again because as I stated above I just haven't been feeling myself and how I presume a 27 year old male should feel.

I was scared to reveal this information to her because I was afraid she is going to now blame the Superdrol as the cause and only focus on that instead of looking at other possible issues.

She stated that going off of what I told her, she thinks it's possible that by taking the superdrol it threw my pituitary gland out of whack which is now telling my testes to only produce a minimal amount of testosterone . She said at this point she doesn't feel prescribing testosterone would be the right approach but a better option would be to try using Clomid to see if it will "jump start" my pituitary gland into sending the signal to my testes to produce more testosterone.

She of course is going to do a full blood work panel and have everything checked and once she gets those results she will figure out her game plan from there.

I hope she doesn't focus solely on superdrol as being the cause of my issues and remains open to other possibilities. My SD cycle was two years ago so I don't see how it would still be affecting me now. She did say it can take years for your pituitary gland to recover.

What I don't understand is why now for the past 4 months I finally have started to notices all the tell tale signs of low T and not directly after my run with SD. That makes me feel it may be another issue causing the problem, but I guess I'll know for sure when the blood work comes back.

**kelkel** · 02-04-2014, 09:09 PM

Well, the clomid run won't hurt you. Just have to see how it holds after the fact. Take a look at the BW in the HRT Forums "Finding A Doc" sticky thread. Good example for you there. She seems relatively sharp but yes, lets hope she does not hang her head on just one thing. But keep in mind it's the one thing you gave her as well.

Keep working on it. Keep researching it yourself. Get a note pad and write down questions that come up for your next visit. Always good to know the answer to your question ahead of time and if it's not similar to hers, talk about it. Self-education is key!

**Venom** · 02-24-2014, 07:23 PM

Results from Endo:

2/7/2014 10:00 a.m. (Fasted)

-ACTH, Plasma- 17 pg/ml - Ref. 6-50

-Sex Hormone Binding Globulin- 19 nmo/l -Ref. 10-50

-IFG 1, LC/MS- 222 ng/ml -Ref. 63-373

-Z Score (male)- 0.6 SD -Ref. -2.0- +2.0

-Z Score (female)
-ferritin- 74 ng/ml -Ref. 20-345
-FSH- 5.9 mIU/ml 1.6-8.0

-Growth Hormone - 0.1 ng/ml -Ref. <OR= 10.0

-LH -4.9 mIU/ml -Ref. 1.5-9.3

-Prolactin- 5.7 ng/ml -Ref. 2.0-18.0

-T4, Free- 1.0 ng/dl -Ref. 0.8-1.8

-TSH- 1.12 mIU/l -Ref. 0.40-4.50

-Vitamin B12- 835 pg/ml -Ref. 200-1100

-Estradiol- 43 pg/ml (slightly high) -Ref. < OR= 39

-Cortisol A.M.- 9.5 mcg/dl -Ref. 4.0-22.0

-Total Test- 629 ng/dl -Ref 250-1100

-Free Test- 167.3 pg/ml -Ref 35.0-155.0

Alright, those are the results above. The Endo called me shortly after receiving them and discussed everything with me. She pretty much stated everything was in the normal range. My total test was 629 which is good, and my Free is 167.3 which is better then expected and most likely the reason why my E levels are slightly elevated and not to worry.

I embarrassingly informed her that prior to taking blood work my girlfriend "forced" me to have sex with her, and I didn't ejaculate because I thought it would skew my results. About a half hour after sex I got my blood work done. She informed me that having sex prior wouldn't change anything.

Do you agree with her statement on sex not screwing up any testosterone results?

I'm happy to see these results except for the fact that I still "feel" these symptoms. Especially as of lately my libido has been horrible. It has become very difficult for me to now even get an erection and the times I do the quality is very poor. I hardly think about sex and the times I do, it's like I'm mentally aroused but cannot become erect.

I can assure those of you who are will to help I'm being sincere about all of this and not trying to get onto TRT for bodybuilding purposes, I just want to feel like myself again.

I have read that in a given day your test levels can go up or down a few hundred points, is this true and could it possibly mean the 629 is not entirely accurate? I have also read your free level is the more important number so if I really am a 167.3 I suppose that's good?

Prior to getting the full blood work she had intentions of putting me on Clomid, in hopes to "jump start" my pituitary gland, she decided not to do that. I have a fallow up appointment with her in march to update her on how I'm feeling.

I suppose the blood work is accurate but I know how I'm feeling and it's not like my normal self. I feel depressed, unmotivated, hardly think about sex, and just flat out like crap, and that's the complete opposite of how I use to feel.