Does bottom end normal range = TRT?

[lowercaseA]

Hi all. First post. I should start out that this is all from experience with a doctor in the UK (England). I'll keep it brief but can write more if required. Had my bloods done at the Docs. Getting on now (nearly 38) and everything has gone to shit. All the usually low T level symptoms.

From my blood tests:
Testosterone: 12.2 (normal range for my age 8.6 - 29.0)
LH 2.7
FSH 3.3
Ostradiol 34
Cortisol and thyroid also normal.

UK so test is nmol/l, which is equal to 352 ng/dl (normal range 270 to 1070 ng/dL? I think)

Doctors findings: "Your tests are in range so there's no reasons to investigate. Your testosterone of 12 is normal for you since your LH/FSH are not elevated"


I've asked for the actual full results so I can look to see if there's anything else odd.


QUESTION: is this normal that even if you're symptomatic and at the bottom of the normal range, they don't want to investigate?!?!'

It feels like 'i went to the doctors because my arm hurts and i can't move it. they xrayed it and said it looks normal, so no need to investigate.' ... that doesn't really help the fact i can't move my arm.


PS this is private health, not NHS

[InternalFire]

Welcome fellow across the Irish sea,

Doc's most times (at least around here where Im situated) are retards that couldn't care any less about you than the chart on the screen/book indicates.

Im 29, and I had lower than your T levels, and I was sent home as "Im all normal and all is good and within range", and in case I was still unhappy they could give me some SSRi's so I could be happy again.

So far since I was busy with life and ended up reading, reading and once more time reading and studying all and everything related to T and endocrine systems and been trying various things to "help myself" while being just 5" inches away from my fully prepared Test-Cycle, trying to keep myself away from it, as I believe I should try to fix myself up as much as possible to know how and have good background knowledge on whats-what, and so to say Im giving myself a real deep research test/trial & error run, and although I do feel somewhat better now, I dont really know how much have I improved since, but in few more months I should undergo new blood tests and if it still reveals low-T compared to what I had about 6 months ago, I will know what I should do to achieve what I have set out to achieve.

So to the point - yes, it is normal they do that. I would urge you to reach out to endocrinologist or urologist to have you checked on this matter once again and see what they say, it should save you so much time and efforts listening to doc's who wouldn't know what they were talking about.

Put it this way, full ship of one-eye pirates, and each one of them seem normal to one another, same with someone having low-T looking at another folk with similar condition, he looks normal to him

Good luck in your endeavours

[kelkel]

Welcome to the forum. Like Insane Muscle said, find another doctor. Far to many judge you by an arbitrary scale as opposed to how you feel. Over here a normal T serum scale would be 348 - 1197, that being said, you're not a number. You need to get a copy of your results and look deeper for what's causing your low t. Maybe it's fixable, maybe it's not and it's simply your time but at least you'll enter into it with a clear conscience.

Many things can cause low T and suppress LH levels, such as thyroid, cortisol, prolactin, head trauma, adenoma's and the list goes on. In your case your LH is at the lower end of the spectrum, thus your T is low. Try and get some better blood work and initially look at the first three I mentioned. Particularly thyroid as many doc's know as much about thyroid as they do hormones, which isn't much. Hypothyroidism will cause hypogonadism. Also if gauging your thyroid on TSH alone it's a weak indicator and the scale is to broad. A more modern scale is .3 - 3.0.

Doctors who dismiss symptoms simply because of a lab report disgust me.

[lowercaseA]

Thanks for the replies and warm welcome.

It's good - but annoying - to know that this isn't the only doctor that doesn't gives crap. She's actually an endocrinologist too. Not just a GP.

I'll get my full results and read up more.


Oh, speaking of general practitioner doctors. When I first went to my local GP, his considered opinion was 'well you don't look like you have low testosterone. I can start you in some anti-depressants though.'

😡👎🏻

[InternalFire]

bayum! I bet this is how most if not all do by the book, since I was offered/told the same, and only with a pursuit of my own I have partially got what I asked for.

Since, I have started supplementing with certain elements vits and minerals to see if I can fix myself, and I will not lie, it aint placebo, feels like I got somewhat improvement but not clear how much, however, I do feel better. If you like to discuss feel free to PM me.

[kelkel]

Thanks for the replies and warm welcome.

It's good - but annoying - to know that this isn't the only doctor that doesn't gives crap. She's actually an endocrinologist too. Not just a GP.

I'll get my full results and read up more.


Oh, speaking of general practitioner doctors. When I first went to my local GP, his considered opinion was 'well you don't look like you have low testosterone. I can start you in some anti-depressants though.'



You'll find that the doctors title doesn't mean much when it comes to hormones. Just that they understand them. Most of us have been through several doc's to find the correct one.

Watch this video. It'll enlighten you to your hormone pathways and what you should be looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xrU7HREfcU

[lowercaseA]

Thank you SO much. That video is brilliant. I understand why it's not as simple as pouring more testosterone into my system.

I'll chase up for my full results again. I'm pretty sure I'm guilty of leaking test down into the estrogens

[lowercaseA]

Hi all. First post. I should start out that this is all from experience with a doctor in the UK (England). I'll keep it brief but can write more if required. Had my bloods done at the Docs. Getting on now (nearly 38) and everything has gone to shit. All the usually low T level symptoms.

From my blood tests:
Testosterone: 12.2 (normal range for my age 8.6 - 29.0)
LH 2.7
FSH 3.3
Ostradiol 34
Cortisol and thyroid also normal.

UK so test is nmol/l, which is equal to 352 ng/dl (normal range 270 to 1070 ng/dL? I think)

Hi for anyone that still reads / remembers this. I had some more bloods done with a different doctor (I was starting to feel more symptomatic of low test, don't make me spell it out).

The test shown above where Feb 2016. Here are the results from bloods taken last month (May 2016):

Testosterone 6.46 nmol/L [6.1 - 27.1]
LH 2.8IU/L [1.2 - 8.6]
FSH 3.4 IU/L [0.0 - 19.0]

[hammerheart]

Hi for anyone that still reads / remembers this. I had some more bloods done with a different doctor (I was starting to feel more symptomatic of low test, don't make me spell it out).

The test shown above where Feb 2016. Here are the results from bloods taken last month (May 2016):

Testosterone 6.46 nmol/L [6.1 - 27.1]
LH 2.8IU/L [1.2 - 8.6]
FSH 3.4 IU/L [0.0 - 19.0]

That's overt low t. Lab range is ungenerous. What does new doc say? Will she/he put you on TRT?

[lowercaseA]

So thoughts about my recent test:

- why are the upper and lower ranges different compared to the ranges quoted in my first test? It's the same units but if I was comparing my most recent result using the first set of limits, then 6.46 would be lower than 8.6. I haven't changed age groups, I'm still 37.
- These tests were on the NHS. My Doctor has referred me to a different endocrinologist, but as you'd expect the first appointment isn't until December this year. A long old wait.
- The Dr did write on my referral letter 'testosterone levels are only just normal'. That annoys me, symptoms of low test don't just switch on once you cross the lower range limit. It's a gradual decline / experience of symptoms as your levels get lower.
- my levels have dropped from 12.2 to 6.46 in 4 months!! Surely this is worth investigating.

Anyway, I've got an appointment tomorrow to speak to the Dr that wrote this recent referral, so I'm going to ask her these questions. She does seem pretty sensible and has common sense so I'm hoping that she won't just view these numbers as a yes/no.

I don't really want to take exogenous testosterone for many reasons. Especially if it's only what I can buy myself online because I can get any help from other avenues. Please don't misunderstand, I don't want prescribed test either.

[lowercaseA]

she's referred me to see an endocrinologist, but that's not until the end of the year. Yeah, I agree that the lab range is pretty low.

What I'd like to know is, is that normal for my levels to go from 12 to 6 in a few months? I know there's variation based on lifestyle factors, but I'm not a stressful person and don't have a stressful life. things haven't changed this year to merit a sharp drop in natural levels

[hammerheart]

1) different lab and/or assay, test ranges vary a lot and are often unmeaningful - 350 ng/dl is the "modern" lower threshold.

2) Can't you get a private endo?

3) Those numbers aren't normal.

4) Probably, but not even the endo will care.

I don't really want to take exogenous testosterone for many reasons. Especially if it's only what I can buy myself online because I can get any help from other avenues. Please don't misunderstand, I don't want prescribed test either.

Noted.

Have you given a thought about a HTPA restart?

[hammerheart]

she's referred me to see an endocrinologist, but that's not until the end of the year. Yeah, I agree that the lab range is pretty low.

What I'd like to know is, is that normal for my levels to go from 12 to 6 in a few months? I know there's variation based on lifestyle factors, but I'm not a stressful person and don't have a stressful life. things haven't changed this year to merit a sharp drop in natural levels

You should look for causative factors first. What about thyroid?

I scored a total Test of 150 ng/dl (~5 nmol/l) at the age of 24. Is that normal? Lol no. Was there any clinically apparent reason? Nope. It's idiopathic.

[lowercaseA]

my first tests were through a private endo. she was equally as useless as my test and everything was in 'normal' ranges. no interest really.

[lowercaseA]

HTPA restart? No, I can google but do you know of a decent site of thread that explains it? I'd rather figure out what's causing it or change it, as oppose to throwing drugs in my system long term

[hammerheart]

my first tests were through a private endo. she was equally as useless as my test and everything was in 'normal' ranges. no interest really.

That was my first experience with a private endo too. He told me test was normal, even if below range. Look for another one, preferably someone specializing in TRT.

HTPA restart? No, I can google but do you know of a decent site of thread that explains it? I'd rather figure out what's causing it or change it, as oppose to throwing drugs in my system long term

It's HPTA (hypothalmus-pituitary-testicular axis), my bad. Look for PCT on the forum for getting an idea.

[lowercaseA]

I figured that was what you meant.

I guess I'm in two minds. I do nothing until I see the new endo in Decemeber. Or I try a HPTA reset/PCT.

PS I assume I don't have to do a cycle of testosterone to do a post-cycle? We're just using the PCT term because a reset follows the same protocal?

[hammerheart]

What are you going to do if endo proves disappointing? I never had a good experience with (Italian) public service and the NHS too got a bad rap.

Why don't you open a thread in the TRT section?

[lowercaseA]

That's a good idea. I think I'll do that.

So I could try a PCT/restart between now and seeing the new endo at the end of the year.

Or I could wait to until I've seen the endo first.

Both have +s and -s

I guess the best long term option would be to wait first. That way I can explore the endo's ideas first - because if I go see an endo and tell them I've been taking SERMs and clomid and nolvadex, they'll throw me out without even trying to help