41, Pre TRT blood test

[Brett N]

So, I am 41 and a bit overweight. 5'10 and weigh around 210. I have read extensively about TRT and the symptoms of having low T fit me to a "T". Everything just made sense when I was reading through them. I have been medicated for depression which did very little. I don't sleep well, my labido is lower than it has ever been, I gain weight very easily with a semi clean diet (not 100% dialed in but progressively getting there) and I am constantly sore although I only workout 3x a week. I still get erect but it seems it takes a lot more effort if you know what I mean. It doesn't just randomly happen, ever.

So here's my results. Result first column and range in 2nd.

CBC w/ Differential/Platelet
WBC 5.5 4-10.5
RBC 4.55 4.14-5.8
Hemoblobin 13.5 12.6-17.7
Hematocrit 40 37.5-51
MCV 88 79-97
MCH 29.7 26.6-33
MCHC 33.8 31.5-35.7
RDW 13.2 12.3-15.4
Platelets 336 140-415
Neutrophils 44 40-74
Lymphs 42 14-46
Monocytes 7 4-13
Eos 5 0-7
Basos 2 0-3
Neutrophils (Absolute) 2.5 1.8-7.8
Lymphs (Absolute) 2.3 0.7-4.5
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.4 0.1-1
Eos (Absolute) 0.3 0-0.4
Baso (Absolute) 0.1 0-0.2
Immature Granulocytes 0 0-2
Immature Grans (Abs) 0 0-0.1

Comp Metabolic Panel -

Glucose, Serum 86 65-99
BUN 18 6-24
Creatinine,Serum .89 .76-1.27
eGFR if non african Am 106 >59
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 20 9-20
Sodium, Serum 139 134-144
Potassium, Serum 4.7 3.5-5.2
Chloride, serum 103 97-108
Carbon Dioxide, Total 24 19-28
Calcium, serum 9.6 8.7-10.2
Protein total, serum 7.5 6-8.5
Albumin, serum 4.5 3.5-5.5
Globulin,total 3.0 1.5-4.5
A/G Ratio 1.5 1.1-2.5
Bilirubin, total 0.3 0-1.2
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 93 44-102
AST (SGOT) 25 0-40
ALT (SGPT) 19 0-44

Lipid Panel-

Cholesterol, Total 184 100-199
Triglycerides 55 0-149
HDL Cholesterol 62 >39
(comment - according to atp-111 guidelines, hdl-c >59 is considered a negative risk factor for CHD)
VLDL Cholesterol Cal 11 5-40
LDL Cholesterol Calc 11 (HIGH) 0-99


Test, Free and Total

Test, serum 551 348-1197
Free Test direct 6.9 6.8-21.5

Luteinzing Hormone (LH), S

LH 4.1 1.7-8.6

Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.6 0-4.0


I have already been informed that I have been accepted as a LowT patient with my results here.

All of this really doesn't mean a whole bunch to me except that my test is in the lower 1/4 of the range. Meaning it's not totally at the bottom but it's not good enough to be at the mid level either.

Is there anything that stands out about any of these numbers. In my own opinion I would think that I was a borderline candidate looking at the numbers but I definitely do not feel like I did 10-15 years ago. I know this is to be expected with age but how do I know if what I am experiencing is normal for aging or abnormal. I sure as heck don't feel like I am enjoying the process and I know this is only the beginning.

I am really hoping someone will shed some light on these results and let me know their thoughts on them.

[Brett N]

Staff, you can delete this thread. Went to the doc today and he explained all the questions that I had. Seeing all the replies, it doesn't seem like anyone was willing to give any information on it anyways.

[kelkel]

Great lipids Brett.

Total T isn't bad but your free T is horrible. I'd imagine your SHBG level is very high but I don't see it anywhere. SHBG is binding your free T. Free T is what gives you the "bang for the buck" when it comes to testosterone. I also imagine your E2 level is high, meaning a lot of your test is being converted to estrogen. The more fat you carry the more conversion, basically. Both of these factors can crush your test levels. A sensitive E2 assay is in order here. Make sure it's a sensitive panel which is specific to males.

Supplementing with Vit D3 (actually a hormone) will help here. It reduces shbg which in turn allows better free T. Stinging Nettle Root and / or avenacosides can help as well. Test your 25 OHD (D3) when you can and make sure it's up near the top. No doubt if not already taking it you can start with 5K IU's per day as most everyone is low. It can take a while to dial it in. Vitamin D has receptors in virtually every cell in your body!

Also look at testing your DHEA-S level. It's in your chol pathways and declines with age as does pregnenolone. Supplementing both is a plus just make sure it's a micronized version to help it survive it's first pass through the liver. Slow release type is even better. Don't bother testing for preg as it converts downstream and is stored mostly in tissue. Even if you start TRT consider these supplements please.

Hope it helps.

Now, what did your doc tell you?

[Brett N]

This is the bloodtest panel that LowT requested for me.

I saw a doc today and they are starting me on a small dose of test with HCG and Anastrozole. He pretty much said the same thing you did about elevated e. He did say that the more extensive blood test will be at the 6 week mark and that it is a little pricey to do the initial visit. He said all my numbers were pretty good except the low free t was concerning and that my symptoms were spot on for signs.

He said he was going to try and get my total t up to about 900 and have the free t represent the upper part of normal which would be about 2.5% (22.5) but those are my numbers, not his. His was the 900 only.

[kelkel]

Well it sounds like he's on top of things. Remember the supps I mentioned, especially if starting TRT as you will need to backfill your pathways when it comes to preg and dhea. Your goal also should be to get that BF down as soon as you can and to hopefully be able to run your TRT without an AI in the future. A goal may be to eventually titrate down from adex to DIM / Zinc, etc.

Good luck Brett. Let me know how your 6 week BW comes out please! You'll be amazed what a good protocol can do for you! You'll be a different person.

[Brett N]

Actually, he told me about getting some D3, magnesium, and melatonin for some sleep issues I have been having. Took them last night and I slept great. I guess the D3 will serve more than one purpose.

Doses -

Magnesium 400mg
D3 - 2000 iu
Melatonin 5mg

Said to take before bed and I had almost 7 hours of completely solid sleep. Never had that good of sleep even with tylenol pm or RX sleeping pills. (haven't taken for months) I was shocked it helped that much but I was exhausted from driving too. I will post my 6 week in this thread too. Thanks for the input.

Is DHEA-S the name of the supplement? How much of it a day? Should I take another dose of D3 in the am as well?

[kelkel]

Read this on DHEA and Preg.

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...ould-know.html

This on D:

Startling Findings About Vitamin D Levels in Life Extension Members - Life Extension

Remember D is fat soluble so it needs to be taken with a meal, not on an empty stomach. D3 in my opinion needs to be at least 5K unless you live in the sun (all the time.)

Malatonin is great and I take it every night. There's a good article on its benefits in the current issue of Life Extension Foundation's magazine. I'd link you but their site is down at the moment for maintenance. Just google LEF Melatonin later today.

[Brett N]

I am a bricklayer and work out in the sun all day. Doctor did make a comment that it looked like I got plenty of sun though, didn't think to connect the 2.

With trying to eat clean and be on a deficit, I feel like I am getting full on all the supplements I am taking. I don't mind it, it's just a lot to take in mentally when all you are used to is a multi vitamin and fish oil.

[kelkel]

Fish oil is great but most multi's just don't have enough of the specific vitamins you need.

Don't forget Preg and DHEA. They are in your hormone pathways and are very important.

[Brett N]

Could not find Preg at 3 different pharmacies so I will have to buy online.

Space in http needs to be removed

Here's an inexpensive DHEA I found - ht tp://www.amazon.com/dp/B008J8D9KS?psc=1

Preg - h ttp://www.amazon.com/Life-Extension-Pregnenolone-Capsule-100-Count/dp/B000JKR6FI/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1376507039&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=100mg+pregnenolene

These are both 100mg per capsule, you think that they would be good for brand and for doseage? One per day in am?

Here is a list of what I am all taking as of now -

Nature's Bounty - Fish Oil 1200mg x 2 a day
Nature's Bounty - St John's Wort (mood elevator) 2x a day
generic multi vit. (men's health) 1x a day - Ingredients below
A 3500iu
C 60mg
D 700iu
E 22.5iu
K 20mcg
Thiamin 1.2mg
Riboflavin 1.7mg
Niacin 16mg
B6 3mg
Folic Acid 400mcg
B12 18mcg
Biotin 30mcg
Pantothenic Acid 5mg
Calcium 210mg
Magnesium 120mg
Zinc 15mg
Selenium 110mcg
Copper 2mg
Manganese 2mg
Chromium 120mcg
Lycopene 300mcg


for acne (austinite)
B5 - 5grams x2 a day
Zinc - 50mg x 2 a day

Sleep aid - (all nature's bounty brand)

Magnesium - 400mg evening
D3 - 2000iu evening
Melatonin - 5mg

Do you think I should remove or add anything except the DHEA and Preg? Should I add more D3 even though I work outside? Caps are 2000iu - either 4000 or 6000 or leave at 2000. I will start taking the D3 with my evening meal, if I add more I will take it with morning meal.

[kelkel]

I use this dhea and like it. I would not go over 50mg until you have subsequent blood work. Positive results via blood work:

Amazon.com: MRM Micronized DHEA Vegetarian 50 mg Caplets, 90-Count Bottles: Health & Personal Care

I use this preg. It's slow release micronized product:

Lose anything. Probably the multi and then double your D dosage and add in Vit C at 2-3 grams per day.

McPherson Labs DHEA Store :: Pregnenolone

[Brett N]

Ok, placed orders for C, DHEA and Preg (ones you recommended) Here is what I will be taking, sound good?

AM (roughly 5am)

vitamin c (powder) - 2.25grams
micro. DHEA - 50mg
preg. - 50mg
Fish oil - 1200mg
St Johns wort -
B5 - 5 grams
zinc - 50mg
D3 (with food) 2000 iu

PM (roughly 5pm)

Fish Oil - 1200mg
St Johns wort -
B5 - 5 grams
zinc- 50mg
D3 (with food) 2000iu

Bed (roughly 9pm)

Magnesium - 400mg
Melatonin - 5mg

[kelkel]

Looks fine.

[Brett N]

Got my 6 week blood test back.

Protocol - 50mg Test C 2x a week
1/4 Anasterozole 2x week
250iu HCG 2x week

Doc said he is very happy with the numbers, I am not unhappy but I don't feel as good as what I had expected. I still feel some of the symptoms like anxiety, poor sleep, lack of energy, reduced labido and some mild depression. I did tell the doc that I was expecting more and he said that it will get better with time. Starting week 9 now. Is this normal? Talking about taking some time to feel "good".

I have read others say that they would never go back to pre TRT feelings and I honestly cannot say the same. At this point, I question to whether it is worth the $199 a month to me. BTW, I am with LowT and I have no problems what so ever with them. I just wonder if maybe something else is wrong with me or something.

Bloodwork -

[kelkel]

Consider allowing your E to rise a bit more. Maybe drop one dose of your adex. Talk to your doc about it first though.

[Brett N]

Thanks, I will ask him.

[Brett N]

Thanks for the advice kelkel. I talked to my doctor and he thought it was a great idea. He is taking me off my anastrozole for 2 weeks I guess to clean out my system and then starting me back up on 1/4mg 1X a week.

I greatly appreciate the help, I'll keep this thread updated in a month or so to note any improvements or not.

[Brett N]

Update- TRT for 2 years now. Have messed with doseage a little here and there.

Last test/HCG injection - Thursday am
Blood was taken Sat am prior to weekly .25mg anastrozole (also walked 4 miles in early am but that is all)

This is my blood work prior to taking low dose (100mg - 120mg) Deca. I plan on starting Deca within next 2 weeks or when the mail man delivers.

Current TRT -

75mg Test C x2
250iu HCG x 2
.25mg anastrozole 1x per week

Blood test results -




Post is mostly directed towards kelkel, suggestions based on most recent bloods? Should I up anastrozole to .25 2x a week once I start Deca?

I feel really good though.

[kelkel]

Just saw this Brett. Have to crash now but I do have several thoughts regarding your BW and possible changes to make.

[Brett N]

Looking forward to input kelkel.

[kelkel]

Other than E2 I like your numbers. That said, you have wiggle room based on your FT to lower your dose if you choose to help mitigate E2. Currently you're taking your adex 2.5 - 3 days after your injection. Test peaks in about 24 hrs or so then begins a slow drop so basically your adex timing is off when it comes to this test. Meaning if you took it the day of or day after your results would be different. I understand your logic of trying to take it between test shots but in this case it did not help you for testing purposes. Adex has about a 50 hr half life.

Yes, I'd consider adding another .25 (assuming you maintain your dose and add deca) to your protocol and take them on the day you inject or day after. Whichever is easier for you to remember. Test your E2 again in about 6-8 weeks or so after you initiate deca and adjust. Some will get a bump in E2 with it and some not so much.

[Brett N]

Thanks man. That's kind of where my head was at and what I was thinking. Hate to lower test because of how good I feel. I will add .25 anastrozole when starting deca.

Thanks. Will post new bloods in 8-12 weeks depending on when I start deca.