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Thread: TRT, Tren, winstrol -> High E2, Low T, Liver issues

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    bizzarro's Avatar
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    TRT, Tren, winstrol -> High E2, Low T, Liver issues

    Just sharing for anyone interested with my deeds with TRT, and welcome to my bizzaro's magic world of paradox and contradiction

    -----------------------

    Current list of drugs

    TE 2x weekly 50 mg

    Tren ? 1ml weekly. Stopped 1 week before drawing blood.

    Caber .25 e3d (Idiopatic high PRL)

    Winstrol 10mg divided AM/PM (for SHBG reduction). 4 weeks in so far.

    -------------------


    Complete Blood Count

    September 2016 November 2016
    WBC 7.5 9.4
    RBC 6.71 6.61
    HGB 14.2 13.6
    HCT 44.5 43.3
    MCV 66.3 65.5
    RDW 15.5 15.6
    PLT 138 272



    I was getting ready for phlebotomy but counts actually lowered... well never mind. Let's get to hormones.



    Sept '16 Nov '16 ranges
    Total Test >13.50 3.98 2.3 - 10.3 ng/ml
    E2 56.21 70.49 7-43 pg/ml
    SHBG 45.7 7.9 13-71 nmol/l
    PRL 54 18.23 3-25 ng/ml


    Well what can I say... PRL lowered, but not to desired value. SHBG was literally crushed by the winstrol.

    Back in September protocol was 75mg 2x/weekly, no AI. Levels were above readable. Let's suppose they landed at 1500, by reducing weekly dosage by 30% one can expect through levels at about 1000. However, as I was expecting (not to this extent though), reducing SHBG also incredibly increased metabolism and rate of excretion. I'm almost hypogonadal now lol. Both measurements I was using the same vial of Test, so fake gear is not a concern.

    That E2 reading is highly suggestive of interference by the tren. Or, see later...


    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Kydney. Some dehydration likely going on here. I just woke up and went to the lab.

    value range
    BUN 32 10-50 mg/dl
    Creatinine 1.2 0.62-1.28 mg/dl

    ------------------------------------------------------

    Lipids. Impact here is quite bad. I must add I haven't been eating exactly clean lately. Lots of extra sugar.


    value Sept '16 Nov '16
    Colesterol, total 148 149
    HDL 60 31
    LDL-C 82 111
    Try 31 33

    ------------------------------------------------------

    Liver is actually the most concerning. I cannot picture that low dose of winstrol doing that. What I can recall is I have abused high dose ibuprofen (800mg RP) because of bad gingival infection/inflammation from a broken/dead tooth (notice the WBC). I cannot exclude it as a factor.

    I wonder whether the high E2 is from Tren interference or the liver being unable to get rid of it.


    reading range
    AST 67 10-42 IU/L
    ALT 122 10-40 IU/L
    ALP 39 30-120 IU/L

    ----------------------------------------------------

    Stopping both tren and winstrol is a no brainer. Not sure what else to do.


    Any input?

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    InternalFire is offline Anabolic Member
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    Well... cant read the table contents trough phone app so gotta review later. For lipids winstrol is the main culprit regardless of your diet, minimal single dose will shit down on your good hdl and up the bad ldl for 2-3 months and it will take a while to bounce back after, my conclusion is best to avoid this oral, but that's just me...so there you have it. I can only imagine lowered shbg made total test more available/free/bioavailable thus total landed lower due to being used up more as in more readily available form, and there fore more free test may result in more aromatisation. Mostly just theorising, may be wrong but dont know how else to put this. Other thing as tren was competing with AR cites with test, your free test had not much to do or less opportunity to do any binding thus may have got excreted somehow or more so converted to E2. Its one way road from T to E2.
    For liver issues, ibuprofen may be the thing but so is the winstrol and tren, also, to help you out more with E2 excretion I would consider high fibre diet for a while , meaning lots veggies and likes so you're at better chance increasing your E2 excretion natural way, otherwise if its much over the limit I would consider small dose of AI and some nolva for a week or so , so that floating E2 has no purpose binding anywhere you dont need to
    Last edited by InternalFire; 11-28-2016 at 09:28 AM. Reason: phone typing syntax fixes

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    I was more into cross-reactivity with immunoassay for E2, but your theory is interesting. The point is, I have been suffering with the typical cluster of low E2 symptoms lately - insomnia, joint pain, crankiness, anxiety, dyspepsia. It has been a common presentation in the past so I cannot go wrong there, yet, the doubt remains.

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    InternalFire is offline Anabolic Member
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    it too could be dehydration and malnutrition, its not only hormones that are responsible for all good/wrong doing in your body, if you've good environment for building physique but lacking building blocks that will promote bone mineral density increase, joints support and connective tissue production it all goes hand in hand and results wont show, could be that even if you supplement with lots good things you may not be a responder to some of them supplements, long route finding what really works for everyone, but for the most part that most times works from all the supps is FOOD, needless to say that but I could not hold back you knew that already. call me ignorant or what not, how do you ingest your fish oils? is it capsules or liquids via spoon etc? and after reviewing your values now they aren't anything too terrifying, but requiring attention. I cant recall from our earlier conversations, but do you do daily cardio or not? < this can contribute to improving your lipids greatly over time providing you tighten up on your diet at the same time. Water intake is also important... damn, I talk to much at this point, kelkel and other VET's will more likely advice you better than this, cause I just run from what I know here, not for what is being a hard facts

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    Uh, I don't think I'm malnourished , it's just a pattern of symptoms developing each time Test levels falls below a certain point, or AI are abused.

    I do walk around for more than 10km in a day, I hope that counts as cardio. Water intake is about two liters/die.

    Yes the transaminases elevation is still "mild" technically speaking, I'm pretty much convinced it's from the ibu, I'm not really worried about that as much as this will impact my TRT protocol in the future.

    I was already taking 1g NAC daily and I will double that.

    Also I will be performing dentistry next week and I'm not sure what to take for the pain.

    Overall, I'm more amazed with the Tren not affecting hematocrit at all and how fast I'm metabolizing Test after the SHBG has crushed than I'm worried about liver... also that damn prolactin is still higher than I want it to be.

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    InternalFire is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    Uh, I don't think I'm malnourished , it's just a pattern of symptoms developing each time Test levels falls below a certain point, or AI are abused.

    I do walk around for more than 10km in a day, I hope that counts as cardio. Water intake is about two liters/die.

    Yes the transaminases elevation is still "mild" technically speaking, I'm pretty much convinced it's from the ibu, I'm not really worried about that as much as this will impact my TRT protocol in the future.

    I was already taking 1g NAC daily and I will double that.

    Also I will be performing dentistry next week and I'm not sure what to take for the pain.

    Overall, I'm more amazed with the Tren not affecting hematocrit at all and how fast I'm metabolizing Test after the SHBG has crushed than I'm worried about liver... also that damn prolactin is still higher than I want it to be.
    I feel if you're walking just to walk it doesnt count much as cardio if at all, unless its really intense brisk constant pace that makes you almost run out of breath so you have to control the tempo/breathing so you can keep on going to keep that not running out of breath yet not going too slow ratio, then it would count as cardio, but that's my take. I'd give or take 10-20 minutes of high load cardio on any machine, be it rowing, stairs, elliptical or just a treadmill something to up and keep your heart-rate elevated at constant, not too high not too low. otherwise I just dismiss as not being efficient.
    Talking about malnutrition, its not in a wrong way, you may be dieting well and sound but if you miss one of key elements responsible for the results desired, youre results will display accordingly. Likes if you're having those cramps due to lack of magnesium, nothing else is going to patch that but magnesium intake either trough diet or supps, same goes for joints and other things... just my ideology

    Besides, regards RBC counts, I was also surprised with that, as you mentioned your diet was off with lots sugars lately, and knowing some interesting stories if you over indulge in simple sugars it thins your blood in some ways thus I believe reducing some RBC levels, but I just have it as anecdotal so laugh about it for now other than this, do you happen to have some nose bleeds etc? Just thought I will add up from my background due to multiple young days of muay-thay I carry fragile inner nose structures, it takes me few extra stuffed nose blowouts to have blood fountains coming out of my nostrils for minutes, almost could count as self bleeding right there, so unless you've something similar going on it may be the case your RBC is unchanged
    Last edited by InternalFire; 11-28-2016 at 10:28 AM.

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    Let's not forget I still have significant asthenia and working out properly is hard, especially with the funny sides from Test. Yes I do usually walk pretty fast though I've been feeling quite lethargic and fatigued lately and slow down accordingly. It's brisk enough to spike HR up to 120-150, though this will depend on hormone status.

    Well it's not THAT much sugar though still high for my standards. Still less than the average westerner consumes.... no bleeds to reckon.

    It seems I have a pretty much steep response to androgens with structural DHTs inducing noticeable effects and others (Test, Tren ) almost none.

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    I wonder how much it will take for enzymes to return to normal with the offending agent removed. Again, any input is welcome.

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    Regarding transaminases, for acurate value you need to stop training for a week and retest.

    But I mostly agree with IM

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    It's accurate then.

    So you too think I'm actually high on E2? I tried as low as 0.1 ana the week other and felt ugly for days.

    I haven't felt this way since the low T times.

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    Btw I know how malnutrition feels like, I have been through it. The same for dehydration.

    What's your stance on blood counts? Not enough carbs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    It's accurate then.

    So you too think I'm actually high on E2? I tried as low as 0.1 ana the week other and felt ugly for days.

    I haven't felt this way since the low T times.
    Tren will mess e2 readings, you need to stop tren earlier for it to clear. Kinda of hard for anybody to have a clear picture.
    Dont know why some ppl are so sensitive to e2, I had my e2 at low values without noticing it much. All studies I've read say that anastrozol is well tolerated at doses we would cringe, examples:
    Estrogen Suppression in Males: Metabolic Effects
    Aromatase inhibitors for male infertility

    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    Btw I know how malnutrition feels like, I have been through it. The same for dehydration.

    What's your stance on blood counts? Not enough carbs?
    Your hemoglobin lowered probably because testosterone lowered too.
    You know my stance on carbs, I believe we needed them for improved health. But I think it would only affect you if you were really low on carbs. Start eating more polenta lol, just lower the amount of butter in it hehehe
    About your hemogram, specifically why your H&H dont rise like most here, I would look at vit b12, folate and iron/ferritin levels. About b12 some ppl cant really absorb it orally, I buy my b12 at pharmacy (Jaba B12 20 mg/2ml, cobamamide).
    Please dont think about own blood letting before your hematocrit reaches 55%.

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    regards AI, I read some people feel terrible not because of how fast/how much it affects their reading or lack of the affection but how other metabolites of AI compound can interact with ones body, making them feel wrong. So far I have not touched anything else but aromasin , and I find it working nice and steady, and before I jumped to it, I found many folks who report that they cannot tolerate aromasin, letrozole or arimidex well as the other, it comes down to individual choice. was letrozole the only AI you have tried? its pretty hard I know. I just draw my conclusions and liked how aromasin works eliminating aromatase enzyme itself and in case of excess E2 floating in your blood - that can be treated with nolva and diet of course, just my conclusion

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    Noted. I was just pointing that, I had fooled myself into thinking I got Tren -A in place of E, that was the point.

    About E2, when it gets too low my nervous system literally goes haywire, I get gastroparesis, tremors and really bad anxiety (even panic attacks). I don't recall feeling like this since the low T days, that's why I'm sure the E2 reading was skewed, it's something I cannot be mistaken about.

    Dropping the Tren unfortunately isn't helping either as it seemed to have powerful calming potential - I must reconstitute HCG asap.

    Given the exceptional rate of excretion I was thinking into upping the Test to 100mg 2x weekly, and retest in a month. W/o winstrol SHBG isn't going to stay suppressed, though I'm sure it won't rise to previous levels, it's annoying as this means I will have to revisit protocol often.

    With counts that low of course I'm not thinking about bleeding. In fact, I'd fancy my hemoglobin to be higher.

    I haven't pulled B12 in a while, Iron I do regularly as it's a chronic issue, Folate status seems ok, since when I started supplementing regularly with 400mcg daily the MCV lowered by some points, which is an index of increased cell division rate. I'm sure I also get lots from fresh fruits.

    I have been supplementing with Iron for the last two yrs and as of summer Ferritin was 30, serum Fe 50. I started taking Iron bysglicinate since then and it haven't raised much - 67 as of this bw.

    When I was on nebido btw hematocrit never raised past 40%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneMuscle View Post
    regards AI, I read some people feel terrible not because of how fast/how much it affects their reading or lack of the affection but how other metabolites of AI compound can interact with ones body, making them feel wrong. So far I have not touched anything else but aromasin, and I find it working nice and steady, and before I jumped to it, I found many folks who report that they cannot tolerate aromasin, letrozole or arimidex well as the other, it comes down to individual choice. was letrozole the only AI you have tried? its pretty hard I know. I just draw my conclusions and liked how aromasin works eliminating aromatase enzyme itself and in case of excess E2 floating in your blood - that can be treated with nolva and diet of course, just my conclusion
    Yes but your hypothesis was about Tren occupying sites and letting T floating around. If that was the issue, then dropping the Tren should fix it... no need for AI/SERMs.

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    Btw, aromasin felt the worst to me, I went from normal to unemotional zombie after only 6.25 of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    Noted. I was just pointing that, I had fooled myself into thinking I got Tren -A in place of E, that was the point.

    About E2, when it gets too low my nervous system literally goes haywire, I get gastroparesis, tremors and really bad anxiety (even panic attacks). I don't recall feeling like this since the low T days, that's why I'm sure the E2 reading was skewed, it's something I cannot be mistaken about.

    Dropping the Tren unfortunately isn't helping either as it seemed to have powerful calming potential - I must reconstitute HCG asap.

    Given the exceptional rate of excretion I was thinking into upping the Test to 100mg 2x weekly, and retest in a month. W/o winstrol SHBG isn't going to stay suppressed, though I'm sure it won't rise to previous levels, it's annoying as this means I will have to revisit protocol often.

    With counts that low of course I'm not thinking about bleeding. In fact, I'd fancy my hemoglobin to be higher.

    I haven't pulled B12 in a while, Iron I do regularly as it's a chronic issue, Folate status seems ok, since when I started supplementing regularly with 400mcg daily the MCV lowered by some points, which is an index of increased cell division rate. I'm sure I also get lots from fresh fruits.

    I have been supplementing with Iron for the last two yrs and as of summer Ferritin was 30, serum Fe 50. I started taking Iron bysglicinate since then and it haven't raised much - 67 as of this bw.

    When I was on nebido btw hematocrit never raised past 40%.
    Yes, with nebido I dont have H&H problems, 47% hematocrit last bloods.

    If iron is low supplement, although too much iron is not good, as you know.

    I would supplement b12, test is expensive and its not a problem to be high on b12, if you have too much it will just be excreted, like vit C. But try it parenterically (does this word exists in english? lol)

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    Nah it's not expensive here. Last time I checked it was 700. To get enough B12 via the oral route you need either 1000mcg and up of cobalamin or methylcobalamin, I have it but I feel drowsy from it, go figure. I can easily obtain injectable B12 for cheap btw.

    As for Iron, I believe the thyroiditis is at play, progesterone can help with autoimmune diseases and that's another good reason to get on HCG . I should also avoid to take my Iron in the evening as dinner tend to be plenty of fat, that perhaps is messing with absorption.

    Do you think 200mg TE is safe at this point? It shouldn't land my levels past 1000.

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    Uh, my belly is making some weird and strange sounds right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    Uh, my belly is making some weird and strange sounds right now.
    Same here. Time for some chicken breast, rice and salad.

    You know its safe, but only you can tell if you feel better with it or not. Or maybe half, 150mg??

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    While I dont believe total T will play any role in how you feel there fore I see no point chasing just numbers, its more about overall balance I think. 200mg/wk will definitely land you above 1000. More so close to 1600-2000 range in a long run, but alot will depend on how quickly your shbg bounces back to mid range also.
    And one more thing, if youre planing going 200mg week, I assume you will be breaking testoviron 1ml 250mg amp, so for that reason I would just go with that whole 250mg content e7d (once a week) , and yes it will spike test high rather quick but so should be the same with e2 and you should begin to feel normal soon also.
    I have transitioned from 125mg split in half e3d to ~200mg week once a week for first two weeks, felt better the very first week but no huge significance, then again some weeks later I have tried 250mg e10d and 10days window was just too long as it seemed I began slowly feeling down by the end of the first week all the way till the next pin, e7d seems do the trick for my body well in this case, same should be with 200mg/ week once a week, but its all trial and error for each of his own.
    Assuming your low shbg is culprit for freeing too much test from totalT, maybe even aromatising too much, you may expect ~1300 total T range at first from the first 250mg pin and when shbg returns/stabilizes you could split this amp to two pins 125mg/week or whatever. I recall reading the higher test dose - shbg downregulates itself in some way naturally, so you basically get e2 spike soon after entering your T dose in to your muscle so if raising e2 is primary objective and having some control over shbg it should be easily done with 250mg testE, but thats mostly my theory, and I will stand corrected.
    Last edited by InternalFire; 11-29-2016 at 08:32 AM. Reason: addons and phone syntax fixes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    Same here. Time for some chicken breast, rice and salad.

    You know its safe, but only you can tell if you feel better with it or not. Or maybe half, 150mg??
    Well thinking of it as a linear system going with an 50% increase should raise through levels from 3.9 to around 6, not much of a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneMuscle View Post
    While I dont believe total T will play any role in how you feel there fore I see no point chasing numbers, its more about overall balance I think. 200 wk will definately land you above 1000. More so close to 1600-2000 range, alot will depend on how quickly your shbg bounce back to mid range also. And one more thing, if youre planing going 200mg week, I asume you will be breaking testoviron 1ml 250mg amp, I would just go with that whole 250mg e7d (once a week) , yes it will spike test high rather quick but so should be the same with e2 and you should begin to feel normal soon also. I transitioned from 125mg split in half e3d to ~200mg week once a week for first two weeks, felt better the very first week but no huge significance, then again tried 250mg e10d and 10days was too long as it seemed, e7d seems do the trick for my body, same should be with 200mg/ week once a week, but its all trial and error for each of his own. But asuming your low shbg is culprit for freeing too much test from totalT naybe even aromatising too much you may expect ~1300 total T range at first from 250mg pin and when shbg returns/stabilizes you could split this amp to two pins 125mg/week or whatever. You basically get e2 spike soon after entering your T dose in to your muscle so if raising e2 is primary objective it should be easily done with 250mg testE.
    Nah it won't, see above. According to research SHBG levels stay somewhat suppressed even after cessation of orals, but I believe it's going to raise quite slowly. Even if it does, I don't really see the issue - we already know having test that high won't affect me much.

    Going with Free T estimates, tT at around 800-1000ng/dl should provide me with plenty of fT levels and DHT/E2 conversion, provided SHBG stays below 20.

    I dunno about 250mg weekly, it feels that tad much. But I really think it's more about not wasting those 0.2ml of oil

    Dosing once weekly also is not an option, with SHBG that low I'll be going through "peak and valleys" even with 2x weekly dosing. That means brief spikes of E2 will happen, and I might try adding as low as .1mg of ana on pin day. Weekly dosing imo is way more favourable for guys with high SHBG levels, due to "mass" effect of larger pins.

    Nope raising E2 is not the objective, that will put me into estro dominance again, balancing the system is.

    I feel like I have a special window to profit of now that SHBG is still that low. If I manage to achieve a favourable DHT/E2 ratio I might not even need exotic ancillaries like winstrol to balance the system, but I have to take my chances now.

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    about B12, I had experience with jarrow forumlas 1000mcg methylcolabamin sublingual version, and I wasnt taking it very religiously, although my B12 reading came in over 1000, I think upper limit was something like 800, doc asked what I took for my b12 as it was this high.
    since i found the same brand 5000mcg sublingual pills and half as cheap mcg/eur, so since I take them ED or EOD split in halves (~2500mcg worth) but I too notice it makes me semi-sleepy and if taken after food it literally knocks me out, I feel like narcoleptic, thus I take it now only after my last meal before retiring...

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    It's a powerful methyl-donor. It will raise adomet and in turn quickly deplete your histamine and cathecolamines (as well as boosting evil serotonin), it's not usually a problem for most ppl, but it does for some.

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    I've had to read all this a couple times. Right now I think you need to keep things simple and take a step back and see what happens over time. Over-complicating things won't help.

    Agree with upping your T. Maybe 75 x 2 and dropping the winstrol . The extra T will help suppress the shbg from rising. If that fails consider Danazol (briefly) along with nettle and avenacosides. Agree with one larger dose being better for SHBG normally but in your case upping the T (incrementally if needed) and going twice per week may help. Trial and error.
    Agree with BB with taking time off and retesting ALT/AST. I'd just up it to at least 10 days off. I can't remember the last time mine weren't elevated.
    Re your caber, I would not increase it. Instead maybe add some B6 with it and see if it makes a difference.
    Even though your HDL dropped, overall your chol is fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    I've had to read all this a couple times.
    Sorry about that, and thank your for your time.

    Right now I think you need to keep things simple and take a step back and see what happens over time. Over-complicating things won't help.
    Indeed. I have a thing for complicating things.

    Agree with upping your T. Maybe 75 x 2 and dropping the winstrol. The extra T will help suppress the shbg from rising. If that fails consider Danazol (briefly) along with nettle and avenacosides. Agree with one larger dose being better for SHBG normally but in your case upping the T (incrementally if needed) and going twice per week may help. Trial and error.
    I believe it will be hard to attain stable levels even with 2x weekly with the current configuration, so that's my way to go.

    I cannot get danazol. When enzymes return to normal, I wish to try winstrol again at 5mg, and see if my liver can take it.

    I have already upped to 75mg x2 and feeling it's benefits, digestion is improving, and anxiety has subsided. It might be well be my definitive protocol, once SHBG has stabilized where I'd want it to - 15-19 nmol/l, but for the moment, I'd like to try an higher dose, due to the crazy excretion rate I'm having. It's not going to push my levels significantly high imo, and I need it for conversion metabolites, not T itself.

    I feel something is still lacking, all of the long-sought improvements in strength, confidence and sexual function I have been experiencing lately are gone since I upped dose.

    If you have been following my recent posts, I've come up to the conclusion I must have either deficient 5-AR expression in target tissues or severely down-regulated AR. Think about it, I've witnessed my Test levels go well beyond physiological, yet my facial hair presented no increase in growth rate. Unless, I dialed down SHBG by crushing E2 with AI. Of course that didn't make me feel well either, but virilization signs become noticeable. The only explanation I've come with is DHT being freed from binding proteins and making it's way into the AR. The hair follicles should express 5-AR themselves, hence something is not working like it should.


    Agree with BB with taking time off and retesting ALT/AST. I'd just up it to at least 10 days off. I can't remember the last time mine weren't elevated.
    I have already been off training. Over the last weeks, I've been feeling progressively weaker. I can't train at all, muscles feel like mozzarellas.

    As for AST/ALT, my GP agreed too that high dose Ibuprofen I've been taking lately could well be the cause for elevation. I'm going to test again before xmas.


    Re your caber, I would not increase it. Instead maybe add some B6 with it and see if it makes a difference.

    Even though your HDL dropped, overall your chol is fine.
    My prolactin is pretty stubborn and has always been there, B6 never did anything to lower it. Imo dropping the Tren might be enough with current dose of caber, when I went higher in dosage (300mg weekly) I noticed lactation in right nipple, so it must definitely affect my PRL.

    I've already started experimenting with .25 EOD, that means .75-1mg weekly, but I wish not to stay at this dose.
    Last edited by bizzarro; 12-01-2016 at 03:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    I've already started experimenting with .25 EOD, that means .75-1mg weekly, but I wish not to stay at this dose.
    Good lord the drowsiness, not sure if I can continue, it will eventually subside, but it took almost a month after I first introduced the caber.

    I think I'll be exploring other options to support brain DA/NE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    I think I'll be exploring other options to support brain DA/NE.

    Why not Selegeline? I've used it for years now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Why not Selegeline? I've used it for years now.
    Yes, I was thinking about doing another course starting at 5mg/die in January, I've tried low-dose at ~1mg but didn't feel anything, also I'd seek a prescription if going long-term.

    Besides, I'm starting to get a positive outlook from TRT, I haven't got any sides from the 100mg pin I did yesterday, I dunno if it's from lowered SHBG but it's promising, I used to get painful brain fog and tingling sensations in limbs from smaller upgrades in dose. Perhaps, things are finally gonna adjusting, and the prolactin too will normalize on its own.


    Edit: have you ever looked into P5P instead of B6? I have tried it in the past and it's powerful stuff, might give it a go again.
    Last edited by bizzarro; 12-02-2016 at 09:41 AM.

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    I have not.
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    Three weeks after

    AST 67 -> 52 U/l

    ALT 122 -> 81 U/l


    I'd say meh, enzymes have lowered but not as much as wanted.

    Recently I've been wondering about a dull ache-feeling I was having in abdomen right-upper quadrant, I know that is associated with gallbladder dysfunction, but it eventually subsided after completely dropping the Tren , which I was tapering till the week other. That made suspect if the Tren was implicated in hepatic enzymes elevation, after all?

    I mean, would it be possible they are still there three weeks after cessation of damn 10mg winstrol only?

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    It's also possible that you're simply human and get aches and pains! Some are just anomalies and not explainable.
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    Noted.

    I'm indeed human so I think I'm going to put logic aside this time and just make a bet, resume the winstrol at 5mg, but check again in a couple weeks, before Eve's.

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    Take the winstrol if its what you need to function normally

    Gallbladder stones will give disconfort in that area when you lie on your right side, or after a heavy meal.

    Take a liver ultrasound, its cheap, and im sure you can ask for one at your country nhs.

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    I already had one, a couple of yrs ago, and was displaying the same symptom, but was just anxiety associated with low T. No anomalies were found. Next year I will ask for a heart checkup btw.

    As I already told you it's now gone, and no more reason for concern.

    The problem is I'm experiencing a return of sides from TRT and only the winstrol , or keeping SHBG low, seems to do the trick of keeping things running normally.

    I wonder if those 5mg can act as some sort of "homeopathic" remedy and actually be of benefit, but of course I must find another solution if that's what's impacting liver function.

    I'm don't drink at all so checking upon holidays isn't a problem either

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    Up we go.

    I have been kind of lazy about everything, haven't bothered about liver much and started drinking too along some serious food/sugar binges, anyway this is the most recent bloodwork.

    Pulled blood on Thursday, 3 days after pin, TRT consist of 125mg TE 2x weekly, plus stanozolol 5mg/die, and 20mg Tren -E 2x weekly.

    Didn't bother about E2 and lipids because of the Tren - vial is almost over, I commenced HCG the day other, 150IU MWF.

    Caber .25 2x week. Discontinued, PRL got in check, we will see if it remains there.

    Total T lands at about 1100 ng/dl, B12 is on the low side (two yrs ago it scored 3x nowadays reading), Ferritin and serum Iron the very same as of six months ago, no matter supplementation w/ferrochel (Iron bysglycinate).

    Liver transaminases returned to normal

    SHBG is kill.



    Reading Ranges
    Hgb 13.1 13.5-17.5
    Hct 46.0 41-52
    Rbc 7.0 4.3-6
    Cobalamin 253 200-950
    Ferritin 33.3 24-336
    Serum Iron 32 60-160
    Prolactin 6.7 2-18
    Total T 1133 230-1030
    AST 38 10-42
    ALT 43 10-40
    SHBG 8.5 18.3-54.1

    TRT, Tren, winstrol -&gt;  High E2, Low T, Liver issues-1-23-17.jpg
    Last edited by bizzarro; 01-23-2017 at 04:47 AM.

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    Bump

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