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  1. #1
    TNT's Avatar
    TNT
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    Cool Plagiarism run amok 'round here...

    I haven't done a gripe session for a while (been too busy reading everyone else's), but here's one that I think has to be said . . .

    It's become very common, especially on the anabolics forum, for people to reprint articles that they've found in publications or on other web sites, but not to attribute them. (This problem is not unique to A.R., but takes place on most AS boards.)

    Guess what, campers . . . When you post something without attribution, the natural assumption is that you wrote what you are posting. And if you didn't write it but do not include a citation, that's called plagiarism. Now, since a lot of your bro's (and it's generally guys who are guilty of this, although Doris Kearns Goodwin has taken a lot of heat in the news recently for the same thing) are college students, you should know better. Because if you plagiarize here, you're probably doing it elsewhere - and sooner or later, you are gonna get caught and pay some dues for it.*

    This morning, in another member's post, I found a fascinating statement in his sig file: "Sometimes called bigarexia, muscle dysmorphia is the opposite of anorexia nervosa. People with this disorder obsess about being small and undeveloped. They worry that they are too little and too frail. Even if they have good muscle mass, they believe their muscles are inadequate."

    Hmmmmmm, I thought, great statement. This is one of my areas of interest, one I've often referred to as the "bulked-up GI Joe" syndrome. I haven't seen it addressed comprehensively in the DSM-IV (the diagnostic manual for mental health disorders), so I decided to do an engine search on "muscle+dysmorphia." Three references and, sure enough, the very first reference I click on has the following statement: "Sometimes called bigarexia, muscle dysmorphia is the opposite of anorexia nervosa. People with this disorder obsess about being small and undeveloped. They worry that they are too little and too frail. Even if they have good muscle mass, they believe their muscles are inadequate."

    So, the member's signature quote was not original, it was lifted from the web site of Anred, a resource center for anorexics.

    But this trend is widespread on the AS boards - members (usually not vets or mods) posting (make that plagiaruizing) articles that they didn't write and not attributing those articles. The posts are usually followed by shorter posts from other members who write, "Yeah, great piece, man!" And it's clear that the responders don't have a clue that the original article was not written by the person who posted it (nor is there any reason that they should assume anything other than that the piece was original).

    The absurdity of it is that in a recent thread started by DOOfy, who posted some of his own outline notes, someone wrote, "i not know if you wrote that out or not . . . but if you didn't you should give cerit to who did write it...." In this particular case, the original post actually was written by the member. (He did an outline, but stole no quotes.)

    For those of us who actually do research - and I'm not talking about merely learning about AS, but who do actual professional, statistical, clinical, or academic research - the citation of a source validates the material. It allows us to go to the original and look it in its whole context, to verify the data as it appears on the board and, if appropriate, to expand on the research done thus far.

    For readers on the whole, the citation of an article written by someone else exposes any presuppositions, vested interests, or conflicts of interest on the part of the writer. (For example, an article on fat burners written by an independent research clinician will have a different perspective than, say, the same article written by the manufacturers of Xenedrine. An article from a medical school web site will not have the same bias as an article from a site that sells supplements, herbs, vitamins, etc. An article on electronic muscle stimulation will be different if written by a physical therapy professor than one written by a company that manufactures TENS units. And so it goes . . .)

    We are not merely talking about using someone else's picture in an avatar here, folks. (Did you ever notice how many of our members look like that Arnold dude? ) We are talking about information that people will read and that will influence them in everything from their choice of cycle to their workout and diet routines.

    So if you print an article in one of your posts, kindly cite the source. It only takes a few seconds, usually a quick cut-and-paste. It will lessen questions about your credibility (in fact, it will enhance your credibility - at least in my mind, because I respect people that can do good research).
    ________________________________

    * I give you a modest example, and I kid you not - this actually happened. When I was in grad school, I was asked to participate in a fellow student's academic committee (our school included peers on academic committees). He submitted his program planning document to us, and as I read it I began to have this strange feeling of deja vu. By the time I got to the second page of a 50-some page document, I was on the floor laughing my ass off. The student had plagiarized his program plan . . . from mine. Seriously - the guy had gotten a copy of my program plan, typed the entire thing into a word processing program, then changed all instances where I referred to my major to his major. He adapted the bibliography to reflect books in the subjects he wanted to study, changed the names of his faculty advisors, but the basic text was from my earlier document, word-for-word.

    I know it reads like one of those "Dumbest Criminals of All Times" stories, but it's true. You can bet that I covered my own ass very quickly by discussing it with my own academic committee - I even did a side-by-side printout to show how directly he plagiarized me. (I had nothing to worry about, since my documented obviously pre-dated his. Besides, the faculty chair of my committee had been asked by the other student to be on his committee. Talk about someone screwing up twice. )

    Anyway, we confronted the student, and the faculty (all too graciously) gave him one shot at producing an original plan. And since he was caught dead to rights, he had no choice but to learn how to do original writing.

    So like I said, students and fellow A.R. members, you never know when someone out there is actually going to recognize, or find through their own research, something you have lifted from someone else. And you know the riff about imitation being the sincerest form of flattery? When it comes to research and writing, bullshit.
    Last edited by TNT; 03-09-2002 at 11:01 AM.

  2. #2
    Terinox's Avatar
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    Awesome post dude!!!

    Did you write it yourself?

    Just kidding, yeah I know, that was low...

  3. #3
    TNT's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Terinox
    Awesome post dude!!! Did you write it yourself?
    Just kidding, yeah I know, that was low...
    _____________
    What is mind? Never matter.
    What is matter? Never mind.
    Actually, o hairy Canadian friend, that was funny.

    Now, as to your signature line, which people would naturally assume was written by you (sine you did not attribute it to anyone else) . . .

    I believe that was spoken by Bertrand Russell (1872-1970). Who got it from educator Thomas Hewitt Key (1799-1875), as it appeared in Punch, V. 29, p. 19 (1855). Who may have gotten it from philosopher George Berkeley (1685-1753).

    But you misquoted. It's actually, "What is mind? No matter. What is matter? Never mind."

    See how easy and how much fun research can be?

  4. #4
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    bump , TNT great post ,I always try to put in the post where I got the info, med text , or md of the text ,taken from another site ,ect... If I fail to do so in the future call me on it ,lol.....

  5. #5
    Canes4Ever's Avatar
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    As a writer myself, I also concur with my friend TNT that plagerism is indeed an agraious (sp*) act. Not only is it stealing, its the taking credit to ones self that is the most hideous part of the crime.

    Good post Sir !

  6. #6
    arthurb999's Avatar
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    For those of us who actually do research - and I'm not talking about merely learning about AS, but who do actual professional, statistical, clinical, or academic research - the citation of a source validates the material. It allows us to go to the original and look it in its whole context, to verify the data as it appears on the board and, if appropriate, to expand on the research done thus far.

    For readers on the whole, the citation of an article written by someone else exposes any presuppositions, vested interests, or conflicts of interest on the part of the writer -1
    I couldn't agree more with the above.

    _______________________________________
    1- Anabolic Review - Plagirism runs amok 'round here - TNT [URL:http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...threadid=12747

  7. #7
    TNT's Avatar
    TNT
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    Still laughing . . .

    Originally posted by arthurb999
    1- Anabolic Review - Plagirism runs amok 'round here - TNT [URL:http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...threadid=12747
    Thanks, Arthur, I needed that one. I'm still drying the tears of laughter.

    But I can tell you're an accountant. The correct citation format would be:

    TNT, "Plagiarism runs amok 'round here," Anabolic Review, 9 March 2002, http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...threadid=12747.

    (Nah, I'm really not that constipated. By the way, I used to know a guy who actually did his Ph.D. in the History of Accounting. For his dissertation, he did a modern translation of Luca Pacioli's 1494 accounting text. Talk about esoteric . . .)

  8. #8
    DevilsDeity's Avatar
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    It was NEVER my intention to make that sig look like my own quote.

    the quote was not take'n from anred but http://www.psychological-disorders.com/body.html

    and as far as my credibility if i do take something from a site i do post it

    as far as not cite'n my sig that was just my fault and not thinking

    i apologize for that and i have fix'd it

    DD

  9. #9
    Terinox's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TNT
    Actually, o hairy Canadian friend, that was funny.

    Now, as to your signature line, which people would naturally assume was written by you (sine you did not attribute it to anyone else) . . .

    I believe that was spoken by Bertrand Russell (1872-1970). Who got it from educator Thomas Hewitt Key (1799-1875), as it appeared in Punch, V. 29, p. 19 (1855). Who may have gotten it from philosopher George Berkeley (1685-1753).

    But you misquoted. It's actually, "What is mind? No matter. What is matter? Never mind."

    See how easy and how much fun research can be?


    Actually, this is what's funny, I did plagiarise my "signature line" but not from any of those guys that you mentioned above

    I stole this from a Philosophy board that all the students in my class must become members of AND participate weekly to gain marks for our class. We talk about different things which are covered in lecture. One person's signature was what I have as my signature, his name, I believe (nickname) was "Will"

    However, I was in class talking to my friend, and we were talking about the board and he goes, so you like that signature that you'r using at AR. And I go, yeah it's real cool, I stole it from our Phil board. He goes "really, well I'm pretty sure he got it from the Simpsons"

    That's when I realized where I had heard that before, I can't remember, but Lisa or Bart were talking to Homer, about something, and he goes "What is mind? Never matter and was is matter, never mind!" Or so I think that's what he said. So, the Simpsons stole it from those guys you mentioned above, so you should blame Matt Groening for stealing it, he's the creator of the Simpons



    Well enough rambling, I have to go to the gym and work on my abs and do some cardio

    ta ta!

  10. #10
    RageControl's Avatar
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    Soo ... does this mean conan is gonna kick my ass?
    live till you die - screaming trees song (queens of the stone age . in the fade) .
    I agree when giving advice or posting an article you should include the source. Like the insulin post was excellent but if you got it from muscle techs websight i wouldnt have read it.
    Last edited by RageControl; 03-09-2002 at 01:58 PM.

  11. #11
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    TNT, considering how many times we have pieces of our website on other websites, I totally agree with you. I know of one particular former member on here who has tried to copy our website (including the design) in order to make it look like it is his. It is very sad that people have to go so far as to steal the work of others and then not give credit where credit is due. Now as far as members using something they found somewhere else, to be used on Anabolic Review. I am very appreciative when it happens, but I do agree that the source should be properly noted. If you notice, I don't even post stories that I find on the internet for discussion without telling where I got it from. If someone put the time into something to write it, it is only fair that they recieve credit.

  12. #12
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    All I gots to say is my sig is original.. I did it myself, I am thinkin about having it patented..
    but TNT you are correct, I have seen folks sued for chit like that. And with this sue happy world we live in, preach on preacher oh and by the way, on my signature, I also have a "footnote" on who wrote it....
    ME...

  13. #13
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    "TNT you have got to be kidding me!!!! I have to credit an author when I put his exact words in my papers'!!! Opps. Good thing my professors have yet to catch on. lol. Just kidding. Your right on the money" (Vegeta990, 2002).
    Last edited by VEGETA990; 03-09-2002 at 10:53 PM.

  14. #14
    Canes4Ever's Avatar
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    Originally posted by PTbyJason
    If someone put the time into something to write it, it is only fair that they recieve credit.
    As a writer myself, I agree 100%.


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