If they are too young, do we still help?
I was doing my usual tonight, reading through the new threads, and came across a young AR member asking about using. I did the obvious thing, and yell YOU'RE TOO YOUNG! but after that had come and passed, I didn't know if I should try and help with his questions or not. Do you guys/gals feel like we should help kids that are obviously too young? I felt like I would be condoning his improper abuse of the drug, because of his age, by answering his questions. In the end, I did not answer. How do you guys reply to questions made by kids way to young for juice?
Ethics Class is Back in Session...
Quote:
Originally posted by broncojosh
Do you guys/gals feel like we should help kids that are obviously too young? I felt like I would be condoning his improper abuse of the drug, because of his age, by answering his questions. In the end, I did not answer. How do you guys reply to questions made by kids way to young for juice?
First, I addressed the philosophical ethics of this type of situation more comprehensively in the thread on stem cell research. You can find my magnum opus in that thread here.
The ethical perspective I outlined there is much the same when it comes to questions from guys younger than, say, 21 (and yes, it's almost always guys - women at that age are far smarter or, at least, under less social pressure to follow the bulked-up GI Joe ideal). I won't use the word kids because, as Canes correctly noted, when virtually all of us were 16-17-18, etc., we felt the same way - we knew it all, we were really adults, and what the hell did our parents know anyway?
The problem comes in when we use words like help (as in, "Do we help young people use steroids?") or advise. It's a semantic thing, but it always remonds me of something my dad told me when I was a kid. "If you ask for my opinion," he said, "you don't have to follow it. But if you ask for my advice, you've gotta follow it." Doesn't make much sense now, but it occurred to me that there is a difference between opinion and advice.
Therefore, I'm very careful in how I give information to anyone, regardless of age, never saying, "I advise you to......." Because if the other guy takes my advice and screws up, then I'm partially responsible. So, again regardless of age, I speak from the perspective of, "Look, you've got to make your own decision, so here's some information that will help you make an informed, responsible decision."
So, in terms of the questions put to us by young adults, we have the same type of situation as a needle exchange program. If we support such a program, in which drug addicts can bring in their used needles and trade them at no charge for new, sterile needles, it could be construed that we are endorsing drug addiction and abuse. Nonsense. What we are doing is recognizing, without judgment one way or the other, that drug addiction and abuse will occur, and taking a non-judgmental step to help ameliorate infection and the transmission of HIV and other conditions (keeping in mind that addicts often share needles).
Ditto condom distribution in high schools. We are not encouraging sex, nor even implying that we endorse sex. We are, once again, recognizing that high school kids are going to boink each other regardless of all the pro-chastity tap-dancing we might do. So we take an action, again non-judgmental to either position, that will help ameliorate the possibility of unplanned or unwanted pregnancy and the transmission of HIV and other STD's.
Now, let's take a very real example to look at the question at hand: Do we help/advise/give information to someone who is too young to be doing AS?
I need someone from the audience . . . Ah, you, sir - yes, the young man in the second row who's panting at the sight of the Ttokkyo poster up on the wall. What is your name, please?
"D00fy."
Okay, let's all welcome D00fy. (Everyone says together, "Hi, D00fy!" And, because they think this is a 12-Step meeting, half the audience adds, "Thanks for sharing!")
Y'all still with me? In the next few minutes, we learn that D00fy is 18 years old, and that he has a proverbial shitload of questions about AS. We do our "But you're too young!" rap, and D00fy continues to pound our ears with questions, act like a hurt puppy if he feels flamed (before he gets hip, admits that he's a newie, and toughens up a bit). And despite our best efforts, he makes it fairly clear that, regardless of the usual warnings, he is absolutely, positively, most definitely going to do a cycle.
D00fy, in short, has become like the high school kid who's not going to listen to the chastity rap. He has become like the guy who isn't about to heed, "Just say no," which is why we have needle exchanges. Regardless of how much we try to encourage him not to do AS until he's older and his natural growth and developjmental processes have stopped on their own, we ultimately have no control over what D00fy himself will decide.
So do we give advice? Past the point of saying, "I think you're too young, bro," the answer is no. Because if our advice is followed, we share responsibility.
So do we continue to give information? Hell, yes. Because anything that D00fy can get from us will provide him with a little more understanding of what he obviously doesn't understand enough yet. We don't endorse his use, nor do we encourage it - in fact, we can make it very clear that we feel he should not be juicing at this stage of the game. But knowing that he will ultimately make his own decision, and that he will ultimately be responsible for his actions, we can help ensure that he is as equipped as possible to act responsibly if he chooses to do so.
Now, if he decides to juice, wil D00fy fuck up? Maybe yes, maybe no. But if it's yes, he will hopefully fuck up less than he would if we did not answer his questions.
There are, of course, limitations. I would not recommend or refer him to a source. But as readers who have PM'd me have found out, I would not recommend or refer anyone to a source. I wold never recommend that he should do something, unless it's something non-AS related (such as seeing a doctor if he has symptoms of a medical condition). I would never suggest adding something to a cycle, as in, "Well, D00fy, if you're going to do test, you should add Clomid." (At that point, I have made a positive suggestion, and I bcome responsible. And D00fy, don't read anything hidden here. I am probably one of the few people on this board that doesn't recommend Clomid - to anyone.)
End of our example. Thanks for helping us out, D00fy! You can sit back down now. Here's a biscuit. (Sorry, bro, but it's the name. Sounds like a Disney character.)
Anyway, I trust you get the point. Whether we like it or not, we will always have guys asking us questions that are under the recommended age for anabolic steroid use. But we have to realize that, while we cannot endorse their use, many of them will end up doing a cycle. Just as many of us would end up doing a cycle if we were still their age and knew what we kinow now. Because when you're that age, you are invincible! Well, at least you think you are. Just as we thought we were at that age.
The other factor is that we cannot always tell a person's age. I still remember our good bro Terinox's original apearances here at A.R. He never told us his age, he simply asked questions. And after we got to know our hairy friend from Canada, we then found out that he was just heading into college. Would we have answered his original questions differently if we had known he was ony 18? Yes, we possibly would have. And on one hand, he would have had the opportunity to hear, "Hey, bro, we think you're too young right now." But he may not have had the opportunity to have his questions answered. And which of the two priorities is more important? Neither - they are equally important.
Finally, this is an anonymous board. We sign on with pseudonyms, we list only the personal profile information with which we are comfortable, and we protect our identities because of both the nature of the board's subject matter and the general notion that there are psychos out in cyberspace. Ultimately, we do not know the age of a person who posts a question. It could be 28, it could be 18, or it could be 12. Under normal circumstances, we could not legally counsel a 12-year-old without a parent's approval. But if a 12-year-old comes on this board anonymously and says that he is 25, how do we know the difference? The answer is that we don't.
But you'll notice that, in the last paragraph, the key word I used was counsel. Because to an extent, that's what we are asked to do. Our goal must be to avoid the notion that we are counseling someone to use AS, that we are advising someone to use AS, or that we are doing anything other than sharing information. Remember, the ultimately responsibility for AS use rests with the person who picks up the syringe or opens the bottle of tablets. Don't use any wording that would shift the responsibility away from the individual user.
I'd like to thank our talented assistants for the day. Let's have a big A.R. round of applause for D00fy! (Mad clapping and cheers.) And give it up for Terinox! (Applause and cries of, "Woof! Woof!")
Class is dismissed. See you next week.
Re: Ethics Class is Back in Session...
Quote:
Originally posted by TNT
First, I addressed the philosophical ethics of this type of situation more comprehensively in the thread on stem cell research. You can find my magnum opus in that thread here.
:clapping:
TNT has done it again, someone should compile his responses and make it the Holy Book of A.R.
omus sanctum angus dei
:lol:
