what would god say? clones?

[Phillyboy1]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6747736/

boy if this stuff keeps up what are religions gonna do to keep people believing that only god can create life?

[AandF6969]

thats an expensive pussy!

[Prime]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6747736/

boy if this stuff keeps up what are religions gonna do to keep people believing that only god can create life?

well they can just re-edit their ideas for the millionth time.

[Phillyboy1]

well they can just re-edit their ideas for the millionth time.

hahaha i hope this turns into a good debate, im tired of boring ass threads on all the boards

[geoneo]

cloning is good, think of all the benefits, you could clone peeps to harvest organs, but i guess most would be against that.

[Prime]

Take the bible, it was written in a day and age when life was very different. Some of the commandments, laws etc are irrelevant today. People dont follow it to the letter even those that are catholic etc, they 'interpret' it as to how they think its relevant to todays life. What doest this mean? well as 'thou shalt not clone' isnt in the bible i guess they dont have a leg to stand on. i contsantly covet my neighbours donkey.............am i going to hell

[Elysium]

im not against it to be honest

[Kärnfysikern]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6747736/

boy if this stuff keeps up what are religions gonna do to keep people believing that only god can create life?

Scientists cant create life. Cloning isnt creating life.

Creating life would be if you take something life less and makes it live. Create a primitive organism from lifeless matter.

Until we can do that I think the religious people can claim only god can create life. We only modify.

Why would that be wrong btw. Can anyone oposing cloning, stem cell research ect give any valid argument to why its wrong?

[decadbal]

im ok with anything that is for helping sick ppl or ppl who need help, i see no problems with cloning.. but then the entire debate about if you create a clone and someone kills it, is that murder? do they get the same treatment as other ppl or are they slaves, or looked down upon.

[seanw]

im not against it to be honest

I think its a great idea, we could rid the world of ugly chics and fill it with horn bags

[Phillyboy1]

im ok with anything that is for helping sick ppl or ppl who need help, i see no problems with cloning.. but then the entire debate about if you create a clone and someone kills it, is that murder? do they get the same treatment as other ppl or are they slaves, or looked down upon.

i personally think they would be completely equal and would have all the feelings as a normal human being.

[Kärnfysikern]

i personally think they would be completely equal and would have all the feelings as a normal human being.

Nah they should be slaves. I would love to have a clone of myself as a slave just because I know how god **** pissed he would be to get bossed around by me

To be serious I dont even know how anyone could even consider them anything else then human. If I copy a movie its still a god **** movie and if I copy a human its still a human.

[decadbal]

yea, but what would be the point of cloning someone, if they were the same as us... we have a natural method for that. the only cloning i see would be for parts for ppl with problems..

[Phillyboy1]

To be serious I dont even know how anyone could even consider them anything else then human. If I copy a movie its still a god **** movie and if I copy a human its still a human.

exactly, i agree with ya. religious people are gonna be the ones that say they are less, and try to argue that they dont have a soul. ill bet ya 100 bucks if you take a clone and cut its arm off, its gonna yell like a mofo. it has all the normal sh-t a normal human would have, feelings, thought, concience and all that stuff include

[Kärnfysikern]

yea, but what would be the point of cloning someone, if they were the same as us... we have a natural method for that. the only cloning i see would be for parts for ppl with problems..

I aggre it would be pointless...

Some people would proably like a clone of themself as there kid instead of a "real" kid or wierd stuff like that.

A real clone wouldnt be needed for organs anyway. We could probably just grow limbs in labs or something along those lines instead of creating a breathing, living clone.

[Phillyboy1]

yea, but what would be the point of cloning someone, if they were the same as us... we have a natural method for that. the only cloning i see would be for parts for ppl with problems..

oh i agree with you that there is really no point to clone unless it was for spare parts so to say. its not really the question should we are shouldnt we, its the question of is it possible or not, and since it is, where does god and religion fit in? or does this add to the side that argues that religion is pointless and human made for people to feel safe and secure in life

[Kärnfysikern]

exactly, i agree with ya. religious people are gonna be the ones that say they are less, and try to argue that they dont have a soul. ill bet ya 100 bucks if you take a clone and cut its arm off, its gonna yell like a mofo. it has all the normal sh-t a normal human would have, feelings, thought, concience and all that stuff include

Would be a new kind of rascism. Like the "invitros" in Space: above and beyond if anyone have seen that tv show.

But I dont se how they could argue that with any kind of reasoning behind the arguments. They cant prove they have a sould themself so arguing that no other has it is moronic. Not to mention cells are cloned in millions daily in there own bodies.

[decadbal]

i agree, it would be another reason for ppl to hate ppl over something simple..

[Imperialist]

yea, but what would be the point of cloning someone, if they were the same as us... we have a natural method for that. the only cloning i see would be for parts for ppl with problems..

I would clone Jennifer Lopez, then marry her when she turns 18, and bang her all the time

[wildcatslady]

you may be able to copy the gentics but you cannot copy the soul, they each will have their own unique soul/personality whatever you want to call it like it says here in the article
"“The thing that many people do not realize is that the cloned cat is not the same as the original,” said Bonnie Beaver, a Texas A&M animal behaviorist who heads the American Veterinary Medical Association, which has no position on the issue. “It has a different personality. It has different life experiences. They want Fluffy, but it’s not Fluffy.”
so we may be able to make another living body or whatever but the soul/personality seems to be coming from somewhere else, God is not the only one that creates life, you get a man and a women together and they have sex and have a baby they created life together..but God gave it a soul...thats my beliefe anyway..just like with the clones.

[Kärnfysikern]

imo personality is just how the experiences you have been through has molded you. Thats why a clone will never be exactly like the original. For that to happen the clone has to live a duplicated life.

But I bet the clone would share most traits with the original and probably react in similar ways. It all depends on how much of the personality is geneticly determined.

I wouldnt count conciving a child as creating life from nothing...Its still not making lifeless matter into life.

[wildcatslady]

imo personality is just how the experiences you have been through has molded you. Thats why a clone will never be exactly like the original. For that to happen the clone has to live a duplicated life.

But I bet the clone would share most traits with the original and probably react in similar ways. It all depends on how much of the personality is geneticly determined.

I wouldnt count conciving a child as creating life from nothing...Its still not making lifeless matter into life.

Yeah I agree...I think it would be kinda like twins..same genetics and all and a lot alike but still very different, cause you like said they will each have their own experiences in life.

[geoneo]

Actually you now what would be cool, is modifying the genes of a human and creating some super humans, could use them in the military or some other stuff.

[decadbal]

Actually you now what would be cool, is modifying the genes of a human and creating some super humans, could use them in the military or some other stuff.

yea, until they realize theres no reason to work for us, if they are more powerful than us.. thus role reversal

[geoneo]

good point deca, but since we will be creating them we can create some defect in them that if they rebelled we could take advantage of the defect - i think i saw this in star trek - enterprise

[biglouie250]

if you believe in the bible as it is written then you believe that gods greatest gift to mankind was and still is free will. if we can create life with our free will ( a gift given to us) then this should be a non issue and people should lighten up about it.

[Kärnfysikern]

good point deca, but since we will be creating them we can create some defect in them that if they rebelled we could take advantage of the defect - i think i saw this in star trek - enterprise

That I think woulde be so horribly wrong. Your talking like blade runner now.

Only if we could turn of all emotions in them and turn them into machines would it be right. But cloning a army of killer humans that still have emotions would be like asking for alot of crap not to mention it would be the worst kind of abuse ever. It would be more ****ed upp then slavery.

I say rather use genetic enginering to evolve regular human beeings so we dont have to wait for ****ing evolution to take its time

[Angelis]

Yeah this sh*t kinda makes you think... reminds me of that movie "Sixth Day" I think its called... the one were arnold gets cloned, they clone by creating lifeless bodies and tranfering memories and sh*t. That would be against the bible (I think... im not a religious person so I have no idea?, does creating a new host body for your memories and thoughts go against god?) I just say who knows who cares its saving lives now... if there is a god I will deal with him when I die...

[Kärnfysikern]

Yeah this sh*t kinda makes you think... reminds me of that movie "Sixth Day" I think its called... the one were arnold gets cloned, they clone by creating lifeless bodies and tranfering memories and sh*t. That would be against the bible (I think... im not a religious person so I have no idea?, does creating a new host body for your memories and thoughts go against god?) I just say who knows who cares its saving lives now... if there is a god I will deal with him when I die...

The movie was interesting

The problem I had with that movie was that they claimed you can live forever by cloning yourself and copying the memories ect. But its not ME living on its just a copy. Didnt understand the logic in that movie.

[Angelis]

yeah technically you live forever but its not you its your hopes, your dreams, your "soul"... So technically instead of just a memory of you living on after you die a replica of you lives on instead... its you but not you.

Confusing...
I know what im trying to say I just cant explain it.

[Kärnfysikern]

It realy touches on the whole soul stuff atleast. A copy of me will be me but not ME. If I die and he lives on it wont be ME living but still be me.

He will think he is ME but I will know that he isnt ME. Even if hes thoughts are 100% identical to mine when I die I die no matter how many copies I have.

I hope memory scanning like that will never be possible that would be to god **** wierd....

But interesting. It would kind of be proff that a soul does/doesnt exists. If the clone is exactly alike the original in everyway and impossible to separate from the original then it will prove that the soul if it exists atleast dont effect personality.

[Angelis]

It realy touches on the whole soul stuff atleast. A copy of me will be me but not ME. If I die and he lives on it wont be ME living but still be me.

He will think he is ME but I will know that he isnt ME. Even if hes thoughts are 100% identical to mine when I die I die no matter how many copies I have.

I hope memory scanning like that will never be possible that would be to god **** wierd....

But interesting. It would kind of be proff that a soul does/doesnt exists. If the clone is exactly alike the original in everyway and impossible to separate from the original then it will prove that the soul if it exists atleast dont effect personality.

Yes YOU die, but your memories, personality and "soul" are copied and live on.

I have to admit the memory scan they talk about in the movie are very similar to stuff we have now... changing on type of memory to another.

instead of Solar energy to electrical energy for instance we will be turning neural energy into computer energy capable of being transfered and stored.

I believe the soul does exist... I believe the soul is a "package" word meaning (Personality / Thoughts / Dreams / Memories / etc...) therefor it does exist but wont live on once we are forgotten... unless it can be tranfered but either way... YOUR dead but your "soul" will live on until the Clone(s) dies.

Just some food for thought.... LOL

[Kärnfysikern]

well wouldnt it be a copy of my soul lol. I know exactly what you mean.
But I mean that if my sould was to live on then it has to mean I will live on. My consciousness is what I consider my soul and you can copy it a million times if you like but when I die my consciousness disaperes(I hope it doesnt die).

When I think of it I guess I have a religious point of view on this. I guess its because I belive in ghosts and that in turn make me belive we have some kind of soul that can be seperated from the body....

We are basicly saying the same things to eachother now with different words My stance is just that the soul as I percieve it cant be copied and the 6th day style clone of me would be exactly like me but have another soul. The soul would make him a different entity from me.

Gosh Im getting a headache thinking about this

[ArkansasAlex]

I just hope I am long gone before this stuff starts to become mainstream. I know that may sound messed up, but thats how I feel. I dont have any facts, or evidence or any of that stuff. I just dont like the idea of a living thing, that was created by scientist in a lab, and not by two people in love (well hopefully in love).

Peace
Alex

PS: there are already a lot of kids that parents are not responsable enough to take care of, why over-crowd the population even MORE?

JUST my opinion

[Pale Horse]

I say proceed on into the belly of the beast and let's get it over with. Clone away and reap the consequences.

[Kärnfysikern]

1victor plz respond to my genetic enginering thread in the religion forum

[WS6_KID]

I think its facinating and I would love to see human cloning/genetic manipulation become a reality in my lifetime.

[BARLOW]

i want a clone of myself, so i can have a good spotter in the gym maybe..........

[DADDYDBOL]

you may be able to copy the gentics but you cannot copy the soul, they each will have their own unique soul/personality whatever you want to call it like it says here in the article
"“The thing that many people do not realize is that the cloned cat is not the same as the original,” said Bonnie Beaver, a Texas A&M animal behaviorist who heads the American Veterinary Medical Association, which has no position on the issue. “It has a different personality. It has different life experiences. They want Fluffy, but it’s not Fluffy.”
so we may be able to make another living body or whatever but the soul/personality seems to be coming from somewhere else, God is not the only one that creates life, you get a man and a women together and they have sex and have a baby they created life together..but God gave it a soul...thats my beliefe anyway..just like with the clones.

i agree

[Dude-Man]

Scientists cant create life. Cloning isnt creating life.

Creating life would be if you take something life less and makes it live. Create a primitive organism from lifeless matter.

Until we can do that I think the religious people can claim only god can create life. We only modify.

Why would that be wrong btw. Can anyone oposing cloning, stem cell research ect give any valid argument to why its wrong?

well, now that we've sequenced the human genome, we could almost surely use current technology to replicate it without using standard "cloning" methods.